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Fasting with Keto

Thundyrstorm
Thundyrstorm Posts: 51 Member
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I don't know how many others are fasting along with going ketogenic.
I have been since I started eating initially twice a day, and now just once a day sticking to a intermittent fasting schedule.
I think I am ready to at least try a longer fast, given my work schedule this week looks like I am going for 60+ hour (water only) fast. So eating at Wednesday night 7ish then breaking the fast Saturday afternoon when we will be celebrating thanksgiving.

Please comment how fasting has worked, or not worked for you, or anything else you might wanna share on the topic!

Replies

  • __Roxy__
    __Roxy__ Posts: 825 Member
    I intermittent fast. Usually 18:6 but depends on the day.

    Pre-keto, I could barely go 3-4 hours without eating. The thought of fasting would have induced panic!

    My first extended fast lasted 64 hours and was totally painless. I only ended it for circumstance. Next time, I hope to go 72+!
  • Thundyrstorm
    Thundyrstorm Posts: 51 Member
    River_Goddess wrote: »
    I intermittent fast. Usually 18:6 but depends on the day.

    Pre-keto, I could barely go 3-4 hours without eating. The thought of fasting would have induced panic!

    My first extended fast lasted 64 hours and was totally painless. I only ended it for circumstance. Next time, I hope to go 72+!

    Awesome that is great to hear River!

    I really like the idea of extend fasting, and am excited to see how it goes my self. I have been preparing for the last few years by collecting a large buffet on my body it's time I make some use of it.

  • Jigglypuff00
    Jigglypuff00 Posts: 267 Member
    I IF 16/8 twice a week, sometimes 3 times a week. I don't think I could go any longer than that. I had a dr's appt yesterday, and wanted them to do a blood workup, so after 6pm the night before, I didn't have anything to eat or drink except water. My appt was at 11:30 so I didn't get to eat until 12:30. Over 18 hours and my stomach was CRYING! Or yelling...couldn't tell which! LOL! So I know I'm not ready yet for an extended fast.
  • Violet_Flux
    Violet_Flux Posts: 481 Member
    Intermittent fasting (16:8) has been my default for years. I didn't even know that was a 'strategy', it's just my natural state. I also do 5:2 when I can (eat 5 days fast 2 days) and I have done a few extended fasts. Longest was just shy of 7 days.

    I don't do the extended fasts or the 2-day fasts for weight loss, I use them for the other benefits. Lowering insulin resistance, promoting autophagy, increasing HGH.
  • Thundyrstorm
    Thundyrstorm Posts: 51 Member
    Steph_Maks wrote: »
    Intermittent fasting (16:8) has been my default for years. I didn't even know that was a 'strategy', it's just my natural state. I also do 5:2 when I can (eat 5 days fast 2 days) and I have done a few extended fasts. Longest was just shy of 7 days.

    I don't do the extended fasts or the 2-day fasts for weight loss, I use them for the other benefits. Lowering insulin resistance, promoting autophagy, increasing HGH.

    That is great, 7 days, that would save me a grocery bill.
  • chinatowninchina
    chinatowninchina Posts: 1,279 Member
    I don't do long ones just the ones that seem to come naturally with Keto, so say dinner about between 7 to 8pm and then nothing except coffee with cream late morning and food anything from 3.30 on-wards but if I'm hungry; I eat!
    I can't actually see me doing a long one, I think I'd start obsessing about food and it would become counter- productive for me.
  • Thundyrstorm
    Thundyrstorm Posts: 51 Member
    Jigglypuff00 wrote: »
    I IF 16/8 twice a week, sometimes 3 times a week. I don't think I could go any longer than that. I had a dr's appt yesterday, and wanted them to do a blood workup, so after 6pm the night before, I didn't have anything to eat or drink except water. My appt was at 11:30 so I didn't get to eat until 12:30. Over 18 hours and my stomach was CRYING! Or yelling...couldn't tell which! LOL! So I know I'm not ready yet for an extended fast.
    I have been listening to a podcast, and various YouTube discussions with Dr Jason Fung, and Eric Berg they mention the 16/8, seems like there is a good amount of success with that model.
  • cstehansen
    cstehansen Posts: 1,984 Member
    Pre-keto, I ate one meal a day - starting at about 6am and ending around 10pm. :p

    After a few months of keto, I realized I wasn't hungry at breakfast, so I just started to eat lunch and dinner. At the same time, my snack drawer at work started to remain closed all day because I didn't have to snack constantly.

    Now, I pretty regularly throw in a 48 hour fast about once a week. I am doing so now, actually.

    Not being starving all the time has been quite liberating. I have had to travel a few times recently and incorporating fasting with travel helped with not needing to find keto-friendly foods in airports.

    I will be doing quite a bit of travel for work in the next couple of months. Since work will pay for my meals while traveling, I am planning on fasting most of the time I am home on those travel weeks. I figure, why not time it so I can save a few bucks on groceries, right? That is especially helpful this time of the year.

    The 48 hour fasts seem to have helped with my BG control, at least for the time I am fasting. I would assume that the breaks should translate into at least some improvement in my A1c. I will find out next month on that one.
  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    I don't fast. While I have read many studies advocating the value of fasting for medical reasons I have read just as many that are contrary. The reason I don't fast is frankly because one of the reasons I got fat is because I had the mindset/behavior of "OMG, I ate too much. I'll really cut back tomorrow to take care of it". It obviously didn't work. I became over weight with the behavior that was "fasting" for weight loss. Perhaps I am the only person here who ever tried that. ;)

    You didn't state in your original post your reason for fasting. I have seen many people fail in weight loss with fasting as a method. It is important to recognize the difference between fasting and excessive restriction.

    That is what I want to share on the topic. I am not an advocate. Know thyself.
  • oliviasgrannie
    oliviasgrannie Posts: 7 Member
    I started fasting 16/8 a few days ago but I am having trouble getting enough nutrients and calories eating 3 meals a day. How is it possible to do it all in 1 or 2 meals? I should mention I had a Gastric Bypass 2/9/15 and my pouch doesn't hold much food. I started Keto about 2 months ago because of a 21 pound regain following my dietitian's orders eating lowfat. I had lost 156 pounds the first 2 years. With Keto I have lost the regain but seem to have it a plateau so I thought IF would help. So far I've lost another 3 pounds. Any suggestions on the correct amount to eat - calories, fat, fiber, carbs and nutrients? I love eating Keto and don't have a problems fasting. Dr. Berg said to eat only when hungry and if I wait I probably won't eat much at all. I worry at age 66 I'll make my medical issues worse. Help please.
  • cstehansen
    cstehansen Posts: 1,984 Member
    oliviasgrannie wrote: »
    I started fasting 16/8 a few days ago but I am having trouble getting enough nutrients and calories eating 3 meals a day. How is it possible to do it all in 1 or 2 meals? I should mention I had a Gastric Bypass 2/9/15 and my pouch doesn't hold much food. I started Keto about 2 months ago because of a 21 pound regain following my dietitian's orders eating lowfat. I had lost 156 pounds the first 2 years. With Keto I have lost the regain but seem to have it a plateau so I thought IF would help. So far I've lost another 3 pounds. Any suggestions on the correct amount to eat - calories, fat, fiber, carbs and nutrients? I love eating Keto and don't have a problems fasting. Dr. Berg said to eat only when hungry and if I wait I probably won't eat much at all. I worry at age 66 I'll make my medical issues worse. Help please.

    Unfortunately, I think doing regular 16/8 fasting may not be the best idea post gastric bypass for the reason you gave about getting enough of the micronutrients. However, you may be able to do some type of fasting periodically.

    Your body does store many micronutrients which is why people can do long term fasting without harm. It is also why many vegans don't show the negative effects of having no B-12 for months or even years after switching diets.

    It is difficult to find a doctor that won't just spew the standard line of eating 5-7 times a day and low fat, but if you can find a doctor to give guidance, that is what I would recommend.

    I would also recommend reading The Obesity Code by Dr. Jason Fung if you are interested in fasting. I thought I had a pretty good grasp on it but still learned quite a bit reading it. I was able to get it digitally from my library and read it on my phone during lunch and other odd times which made it very convenient.
  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    I would think the better Dr. Fung book for someone interested in fasting would be The Complete Guide to Fasting. Yes? No? I've read The Obesity Code but not the other. Is The Complete Guide to Fasting, by Dr. Jason Fung about something other than fasting or full of irrelevant info? As stated, I've not read it.
  • retirehappy
    retirehappy Posts: 4,756 Member
    edited November 2017
    Fasting with keto/lchf eating was the magic I had not found in over 35 yrs. I had just yoyoed and went from one diet to another. I was using 40/30/30 since the mid 90s off and on, yoyoing all the time. I learned all I could about fasting, used podcasts, books, videos etc. when I stalled on keto in Feb. this year. March I started IFing, by April I was doing extended fasts. Longest so far is 109 hrs. But I got to my goal weight the end of April. Been maintaining since then under my original goal weight. I still IF, I still do some 24/35/48 hr. fasting, I mix it up. I do one longer fast per month with a group over on ketogenicforums. com

    I keep The Complete Guide to Fasting by Jason on my Kindle, ready if I do encounter any issues. Strongly recommend it. Don't get the audio version unless you are a big fan of Jimmy Moore's voice. He has done great work helping to build a community of ketoers, but I really find his voice irritates me.

    I am very happy with my new body, my new keto friends, and my life in general.
    I eat great, no suffering from hunger ALL THE DARNED TIME involved either.

    KCKO and KeepCalmFastOn
  • oliviasgrannie
    oliviasgrannie Posts: 7 Member
    cstehansen wrote: »
    oliviasgrannie wrote: »
    I started fasting 16/8 a few days ago but I am having trouble getting enough nutrients and calories eating 3 meals a day. How is it possible to do it all in 1 or 2 meals? I should mention I had a Gastric Bypass 2/9/15 and my pouch doesn't hold much food. I started Keto about 2 months ago because of a 21 pound regain following my dietitian's orders eating lowfat. I had lost 156 pounds the first 2 years. With Keto I have lost the regain but seem to have it a plateau so I thought IF would help. So far I've lost another 3 pounds. Any suggestions on the correct amount to eat - calories, fat, fiber, carbs and nutrients? I love eating Keto and don't have a problems fasting. Dr. Berg said to eat only when hungry and if I wait I probably won't eat much at all. I worry at age 66 I'll make my medical issues worse. Help please.

    Unfortunately, I think doing regular 16/8 fasting may not be the best idea post gastric bypass for the reason you gave about getting enough of the micronutrients. However, you may be able to do some type of fasting periodically.

    Your body does store many micronutrients which is why people can do long term fasting without harm. It is also why many vegans don't show the negative effects of having no B-12 for months or even years after switching diets.

    It is difficult to find a doctor that won't just spew the standard line of eating 5-7 times a day and low fat, but if you can find a doctor to give guidance, that is what I would recommend.

    I would also recommend reading The Obesity Code by Dr. Jason Fung if you are interested in fasting. I thought I had a pretty good grasp on it but still learned quite a bit reading it. I was able to get it digitally from my library and read it on my phone during lunch and other odd times which made it very convenient.
    kpk54 wrote: »
    I would think the better Dr. Fung book for someone interested in fasting would be The Complete Guide to Fasting. Yes? No? I've read The Obesity Code but not the other. Is The Complete Guide to Fasting, by Dr. Jason Fung about something other than fasting or full of irrelevant info? As stated, I've not read it.

    Thanks so much guys. I will check out both books as I can use all the help I can get. Might 14/10 be better for me? Two extra hours of eating time will help me to feel less stuffed. I've been trying to follow Dr. Eric Berg's guidelines but haven't been able to eat 2000 calories and 7 cups of vegetables. I've managed 1350-1500 and follow 70% fat, 20% protein and try for 10% carbs but usually end up 5-7%. While I have many doctors who agreed for me to try Keto none really care about the details as long as I lose the regain and my blood tests come out ok. My bariatric surgeon, cardiologist, nephrologist and primary care doctors are cheering me on without any help. I appreciate your advice.
  • Violet_Flux
    Violet_Flux Posts: 481 Member
    kpk54 wrote: »
    I would think the better Dr. Fung book for someone interested in fasting would be The Complete Guide to Fasting. Yes? No? I've read The Obesity Code but not the other. Is The Complete Guide to Fasting, by Dr. Jason Fung about something other than fasting or full of irrelevant info? As stated, I've not read it.

    I have both books.

    IMHO, Obesity Code does a good job of explaining a lot of the basis and background, and it does touch on fasting a bit. IIRC there is one chapter specifically about fasting.

    Complete Guide to Fasting is of course a much more in-depth look, which I found focuses mostly on intermittent fasting. However, there is only one chapter about extended fasting, I'd have liked to see more on that.

    My suggestion would be to read both books, but if you are mainly interested in fasting then the Complete Guide would be the better choice of the two.
  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    @oliviasgrannie, please don't take this as advice because I'm neither a physician nor have I fasted (intermittent or otherwise) and I've not had bariatric surgery which I've read can have some special caveats in regards to getting enough nutrients from the foods one eats. That said:

    Your profile indicates 165 pounds so I am guessing that is about where you are in regards to weight based on the info you provided up thread. My point with that is why 2000 calories? That seems like a lot of calories to me. I say that from the perspective of also being female and 63 years old. Perhaps you are more active than I or considerably taller?

    My maintenance calories are a mere 1500. My weight is 140. Your 1350-1500 calories seem more reasonable to me (than 2000) for weight loss for a female, 66, ~165 unless you are very active or very tall or have a need to eat that 2000 related to your bariatric surgery. I'm 5'6" and too darn sedentary for my own good so as mentioned perhaps you are taller? More active? Just wondering how you arrived at 2000 calories as a weight loss calorie amount.
  • Thundyrstorm
    Thundyrstorm Posts: 51 Member
    https:
    kpk54 wrote: »
    I don't fast. While I have read many studies advocating the value of fasting for medical reasons I have read just as many that are contrary. The reason I don't fast is frankly because one of the reasons I got fat is because I had the mindset/behavior of "OMG, I ate too much. I'll really cut back tomorrow to take care of it". It obviously didn't work. I became over weight with the behavior that was "fasting" for weight loss. Perhaps I am the only person here who ever tried that. ;)

    You didn't state in your original post your reason for fasting. I have seen many people fail in weight loss with fasting as a method. It is important to recognize the difference between fasting and excessive restriction.

    That is what I want to share on the topic. I am not an advocate. Know thyself.

    I think you bring up a great point, and probably one people should explore. I would love to hear more reasons people are looking to Keto & fast.

    I have been looking to feel better, I have been up & down with weight in & out of decent physical fitness as well most of my life. My usual method has been restriction diets, with excessive exercise mostly running.

    I have been a part of weight watchers, overeaters anonymous, and a few other groups. I would be heavy initially but within a few months be where I want to be with weigh due to compulsive tendency I have. Then I would fall out with the groups thinking I have found the trick to it, and obviously I did not as time would always remind me.

    I am older and it seems that methods that worked before for my body are now dulled or damaged due to past activities. I came across Keto on YouTube and assumed it was bad info but kept looking further into it, so being my heaviest and feeling the worst I have decided to take a shot.

    I am not focused on weight as much as I want to feel better, and eventually loose weight. I have to say I was prepared to be miserable as I have been any change in the past, I a pleased to say I have not been. I have actually felt better than I have in a long time, this is where fasting came in.

    I have naturally not been hungry, this is a far departure from past efforts where hunger has always been a sign I am doing what I am supposed to. So fasting is more of a exploration for me. I have felt very awake & free doing it so far, that is fascinating to me. So now I have looked into it, I am going to explore it, and see where it takes me.

    I agree that this is not for everyone, and anyone with any conditions that are dietary in nature should consult their physician, or dietary clinician. I can not imagine any path is a one size fits all approach we are all different, and in turn need different approaches.

    Woah that was a bit wordy but I would like to see some of your reasons & experiences!



  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    Thundyrstorm wrote: »
    I have naturally not been hungry, this is a far departure from past efforts where hunger has always been a sign I am doing what I am supposed to. So fasting is more of a exploration for me. I have felt very awake & free doing it so far, that is fascinating to me. So now I have looked into it, I am going to explore it, and see where it takes me.

    Totally concur with the hunger suppression. Heck in April of 2016 I joined this forum to explore low carb and see if it might be beneficial regarding lowering cholesterol. That quickly went on the back burner when I learned (in this forum) about ketogenic diets for neurological disorders (I have a movement disorder). I did an N=1, 52 week MTKD for my Dystonia and immediately discovered how keto suppresses appetite. This was quite a discovery for me because I had (poorly) endured 18 months of maintenance, always hungry prior to keto. Though I've abandoned keto for neurology (for me), I remain very low carb for the hunger suppression.

    We never know what we might learn along the way. Good luck in your experimentation.

  • oliviasgrannie
    oliviasgrannie Posts: 7 Member
    kpk54 wrote: »
    @oliviasgrannie, please don't take this as advice because I'm neither a physician nor have I fasted (intermittent or otherwise) and I've not had bariatric surgery which I've read can have some special caveats in regards to getting enough nutrients from the foods one eats. That said:

    Your profile indicates 165 pounds so I am guessing that is about where you are in regards to weight based on the info you provided up thread. My point with that is why 2000 calories? That seems like a lot of calories to me. I say that from the perspective of also being female and 63 years old. Perhaps you are more active than I or considerably taller?

    My maintenance calories are a mere 1500. My weight is 140. Your 1350-1500 calories seem more reasonable to me (than 2000) for weight loss for a female, 66, ~165 unless you are very active or very tall or have a need to eat that 2000 related to your bariatric surgery. I'm 5'6" and too darn sedentary for my own good so as mentioned perhaps you are taller? More active? Just wondering how you arrived at 2000 calories as a weight loss calorie amount.

    @kpk54 I'm not sure of the reasoning behind Dr Berg expecting us to eat 20000 calories but I assume it is to get enough fat and nutrients into the diet. I was told by many in the weight loss surgery community that he really knew what he was doing and they followed him to great success. I'm neither tall nor active. I'm 5'2.5" and walk daily for 1 hour. I do not have permission from my doctors to do any other kind of exercise because of the many medical conditions that are not completely under control but have improved since surgery and Keto. When I was on a low fat diet the dietician had me on 800 calories and 180 carbs. When it finally stopped working I researched Keto and got permission from several of my specialists to give it a try. To say it has been a success is an understatement. I appreciate your concern and advice and will keep things as they are now. If the weight loss stops or I decide keto and IF is too much I'll try something else. Thanks for taking the time to reach out to me.
  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    edited November 2017
    Totally agree with following the advice of your medical team AND the idea that if you can eat 2000 calories and are losing weight to keep doing it! I misinterpreted/read-into the "so far I've lost another 3 pounds". Oops on me!

    Kudos to all you have accomplished! @oliviasgrannie
  • cstehansen
    cstehansen Posts: 1,984 Member
    oliviasgrannie wrote: »
    cstehansen wrote: »
    oliviasgrannie wrote: »
    I started fasting 16/8 a few days ago but I am having trouble getting enough nutrients and calories eating 3 meals a day. How is it possible to do it all in 1 or 2 meals? I should mention I had a Gastric Bypass 2/9/15 and my pouch doesn't hold much food. I started Keto about 2 months ago because of a 21 pound regain following my dietitian's orders eating lowfat. I had lost 156 pounds the first 2 years. With Keto I have lost the regain but seem to have it a plateau so I thought IF would help. So far I've lost another 3 pounds. Any suggestions on the correct amount to eat - calories, fat, fiber, carbs and nutrients? I love eating Keto and don't have a problems fasting. Dr. Berg said to eat only when hungry and if I wait I probably won't eat much at all. I worry at age 66 I'll make my medical issues worse. Help please.

    Unfortunately, I think doing regular 16/8 fasting may not be the best idea post gastric bypass for the reason you gave about getting enough of the micronutrients. However, you may be able to do some type of fasting periodically.

    Your body does store many micronutrients which is why people can do long term fasting without harm. It is also why many vegans don't show the negative effects of having no B-12 for months or even years after switching diets.

    It is difficult to find a doctor that won't just spew the standard line of eating 5-7 times a day and low fat, but if you can find a doctor to give guidance, that is what I would recommend.

    I would also recommend reading The Obesity Code by Dr. Jason Fung if you are interested in fasting. I thought I had a pretty good grasp on it but still learned quite a bit reading it. I was able to get it digitally from my library and read it on my phone during lunch and other odd times which made it very convenient.
    kpk54 wrote: »
    I would think the better Dr. Fung book for someone interested in fasting would be The Complete Guide to Fasting. Yes? No? I've read The Obesity Code but not the other. Is The Complete Guide to Fasting, by Dr. Jason Fung about something other than fasting or full of irrelevant info? As stated, I've not read it.

    Thanks so much guys. I will check out both books as I can use all the help I can get. Might 14/10 be better for me? Two extra hours of eating time will help me to feel less stuffed. I've been trying to follow Dr. Eric Berg's guidelines but haven't been able to eat 2000 calories and 7 cups of vegetables. I've managed 1350-1500 and follow 70% fat, 20% protein and try for 10% carbs but usually end up 5-7%. While I have many doctors who agreed for me to try Keto none really care about the details as long as I lose the regain and my blood tests come out ok. My bariatric surgeon, cardiologist, nephrologist and primary care doctors are cheering me on without any help. I appreciate your advice.

    Glad both books are on your list. I suggested Obesity Code because I think it is good to understand the reasoning behind fasting as well as what got so many of us metabolically damaged in the first place. I always want to get to root cause first, then take action.

    If you decide fasting is an option, then The Complete Guide to Fasting is the "how to" portion.

    If we were all metabolically healthy, just going 12-14 hours between dinner and breakfast would keep us that way just as it did for the vast majority of people up until about 100 years ago. The more metabolically unhealthy one is, the more dramatic the change needs to be.

    You have to work with what you have. Given you can't eat much at a sitting, I can see needing 10-12 hours for an eating window each day to get full nutrition. I know that is something my mom has struggled with since she had this surgery back in 2002.

    I really don't like the idea of counting calories at all. I have been in weight maintenance for over a year now. I will track my food occasionally just to make sure I haven't gotten too lax. The funny thing is my calories will vary significantly from day to day, but as long as my carbs are low enough and I don't go crazy high on the protein, my weight doesn't really change. It really has to do with keeping insulin low enough to get your weight set point down. Once it gets established at the right point, your body will work as hard to keep the weight off as it used to work to keep you from losing it.
  • Thundyrstorm
    Thundyrstorm Posts: 51 Member
    I had a great first experience doing a three day fast from wed to Sat through thanksgiving, had my thanksgiving on Sat afternoon.
    Still on a daily 23/1 intermittent fast.
    I started another extended fast currently 49hrs in, was planning on doing another 3 day but might take this a bit longer.

    Keto has really helped me a ton it is just such a departure from my past attempts of lifestyle change.

    Feel free to add me would love to see other diaries, and updates from others!

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