New to Keto Diet - Question About Increasing Fiber

misssararae

Hello!

It's day 2 on the Keto Diet for me (hence, why I still have sugar in my coffee this morning... baby steps are needed people) and I see that I'm struggling to fit fiber in. How do you handle getting enough fiber without going overboard on the carbs?

I'm still in the research and development phase for my daily diet. I decided to go with 10% carb, 65% fat & 25% protein to get started and plan to go down to 5% carb, 70% fat & 25% protein. Yes, I did the calculators and I should be at the latter but again, I'm into baby steps, I guess. I don't know if that's the "right" way to do it but like I said I'm still getting the hang of this thing.

Now, I know I'll get asked why I've decided on a Ketogentic diet. This is because I've done low carb with much success (I lost 58lbs and was feeling the best I've felt in my life) but I really want to go Keto to help with my endometriosis. I started eating a low carb diet back in March 2016 and I feel off of this lifestyle back in May 2017 when I had a pregnancy loss from an ectopic pregnancy caused by endometriosis. The endo was found and removed during my lap surgery for my ectopic pregnancy. I'm looking to see how Keto will make me feel with my endo now that I know that's what's been going on with me all these years.

Ok, back to my original question. So what should I do add in some chia seeds? Swap something out for the full avocado? I only have planned out 12g of fiber today and from what I've read I need to get closer to the 25g mark. That seems sooooo far away.

Thanks for any input!

kpk54

If you count net carbs, have no objection to soy and want higher fiber in your diet, Black SOYbeans are your friend. Use them in any recipe you'd use legumes. Chili, hummus, bean salad. They taste like pinto beans.

They're a little hard to find except on line. Locally to me, Publix carries them. I've not looked in other stores except the more budget friendly supermarkets. They're ~$2.50 per 15 oz can.

ladipoet

If you're asking about fiber for gut health in connection with bowel movements, it's not needed. The additional healthy fat from following a LCHF way of eating (WOE) naturally lubricates that process.

Here's a link to a 48 minute podcast where the discuss that particular issue partway through the podcast (sorry, I don't remember the time):

http://ketoconnect.libsyn.com/

Here's a link to another (longer 2-hour) Podcast where the person being interviewed is a Doctor who is full on carnivore keto and this subject also comes up in the course of the podcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj_Bc9hdHa0

Hope the info helps.

KnitOrMiss

Some people need more fiber, some people can just go with what happens naturally, some need less, and some need none. You'll need to experiment to see where you fall in that range...

__Roxy__

I count net carbs so that I can squeeze as many veggies into my carb allotment as possible.
(carbs - fiber = net carbs.) This method makes the keto diet much more veggie friendly. Also, I make almond flour + psyllium husk buns which offer a big dose of fiber. There are differing opinions on the necessity of fiber in this way of eating. I don't know the research either way - I just find I feel better when I eat a good balance of veggies, so count net carbs in order to fit them in.

Sunny_Bunny_

What if you don’t actually need all that fiber the grain industry tells you that you need?

acruickshank6876

My favourite brekky comes in at 11.3 grams of carbs and 12.2 grams of fiber, great if you need a boost. It's chia pudding (1 x 400ml can of coconut milk, mixed with 1/4 cup of chia seeds & a few drops of vanilla stevia. Pop in the fridge overnight for four serves). I top the chia pudding with 100g thawed frozen raspberries and 5 grams each of cacao nibs and unsweetened coconut chips. If the raspberries are too tart you can add more stevia!

Avocados are my other main source as well as lots of green veggies. I feel way better keeping my fiber around 25g. When I first started keto it was around 10g. I cut way back on dairy, which I was eating heaps of as it is an easy source of fat, and added lots more veggies (kale, spinach, broccoli, cauliflower are my staples) and healthy fats like avocado and good quality oils like avocado, coconut and also ghee.

Different strokes for different folks, but this works best for me!

ladipoet

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

Some people need more fiber, some people can just go with what happens naturally, some need less, and some need none. You'll need to experiment to see where you fall in that range...

Yeppers, I totally concur with what @KnitOrMiss said above ^^^^! We are all different. For example, my mother needs a lot of fiber because of a medical condition - Diverticulitis / Diverticulosis (I always forget which one she has - ironically caused by eating too much fiber in the first place!!!!), whereas I don't. My body tolerates small amounts of fiber but it doesn't like tons of fiber at any one given meal (it causes me intense GI distress and pain that makes me think I'm dying).

trillionblue

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

What if you don’t actually need all that fiber the grain industry tells you that you need?

Dietary fibre is a great tool for weight loss. It helps increase your metabolism and turns white fat (bad fat) to beige fat (good brown like fat). Brown fat is great for you to have! Beige your white fat with dietary fibre (research scientist who used to work on the field)

ladipoet

@trillionblue ....I respectfully refer you to the link posted previous above to the Roe Rogan Experience podcast with Dr. Shawn Baker.

FIT_Goat

trillionblue wrote: »

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

What if you don’t actually need all that fiber the grain industry tells you that you need?

Dietary fibre is a great tool for weight loss. It helps increase your metabolism and turns white fat (bad fat) to beige fat (good brown like fat). Brown fat is great for you to have! Beige your white fat with dietary fibre (research scientist who used to work on the field)

Do you have a citation for this claim?

2t9nty

I count net carbs and have never felt a need for more fiber in my life (keeping net carbs under 20). Typically I have 1 or 2 servings of leafy green veggies like collards or kale every day. Broccoli is good, and I do like cauliflower rice. Today was an attempt to try "meatatarian," so total carbs and net carbs were both 2. The can of sardines I had as a snack had 2 carbs for some reason. I will probably stick with the "meatatarianism" for a couple of days while my wife is out of town.

RalfLott

Fiber-Famished Gut Microbes Linked to Poor Health

While probiotics receive more attention, key fibers remain the workhorses in maintaining a healthy gut microbiome. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut-microbes-linked-to-poor-health1/

"Diet is one of the most powerful tools we have for changing the microbiota," Justin Sonnenburg, a biologist at Stanford University, said earlier this month at a Keystone Symposia conference on the gut microbiome. "Dietary fiber and diversity of the microbiota complement each other for better health outcomes."

In particular, beneficial microbes feast on fermentable fibers—which can come from various vegetables, whole grains and other foods—that resist digestion by human-made enzymes as they travel down the digestive tract. These fibers arrive in the large intestine relatively intact, ready to be devoured by our microbial multitudes.

Microbes can extract the fiber's extra energy, nutrients, vitamins and other compounds for us. Short-chain fatty acids obtained from fiber are of particular interest, as they have been linked to improved immune function, decreased inflammation and protection against obesity.

62apples

fiber constipates me. oxy-powder clears me out. higher fat works for me. we are all different. as others said..avocado is you friend.

Sunny_Bunny_

trillionblue wrote: »

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

What if you don’t actually need all that fiber the grain industry tells you that you need?

Dietary fibre is a great tool for weight loss. It helps increase your metabolism and turns white fat (bad fat) to beige fat (good brown like fat). Brown fat is great for you to have! Beige your white fat with dietary fibre (research scientist who used to work on the field)

I can’t imagine what mechanism fiber, an indigestible substance, could possibly cause mitochondria to grow in white fat.
I’d be interested in reading if there is a source for the claim.

nvmomketo

RalfLott wrote: »

Fiber-Famished Gut Microbes Linked to Poor Health

While probiotics receive more attention, key fibers remain the workhorses in maintaining a healthy gut microbiome. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut-microbes-linked-to-poor-health1/

"Diet is one of the most powerful tools we have for changing the microbiota," Justin Sonnenburg, a biologist at Stanford University, said earlier this month at a Keystone Symposia conference on the gut microbiome. "Dietary fiber and diversity of the microbiota complement each other for better health outcomes."

In particular, beneficial microbes feast on fermentable fibers—which can come from various vegetables, whole grains and other foods—that resist digestion by human-made enzymes as they travel down the digestive tract. These fibers arrive in the large intestine relatively intact, ready to be devoured by our microbial multitudes.

Microbes can extract the fiber's extra energy, nutrients, vitamins and other compounds for us. Short-chain fatty acids obtained from fiber are of particular interest, as they have been linked to improved immune function, decreased inflammation and protection against obesity.

I always wonder about the benefits of fermentation for humans. For animals that are basically vegetarian it makes a bunch of sense because that is where they get their fats from (in their larger digestive system) but for us, we can eat the fats.

I sometimes wonder, as someone who tends to avoid too much fibre due to digestive issues, if just eating the fats would have the same benefits. KWIM?

I really wish they would do some human trials with a high fat low fibre diet and compare it to higher carb diets, both low and high in fibre.

I gotta say that as a celiac, the idea of under fed, fibre loving bacteria eating away at my previously damaged intestines is a bit alarming. Eek!

RalfLott

nvmomketo wrote: »

RalfLott wrote: »

Fiber-Famished Gut Microbes Linked to Poor Health

While probiotics receive more attention, key fibers remain the workhorses in maintaining a healthy gut microbiome. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut-microbes-linked-to-poor-health1/

"Diet is one of the most powerful tools we have for changing the microbiota," Justin Sonnenburg, a biologist at Stanford University, said earlier this month at a Keystone Symposia conference on the gut microbiome. "Dietary fiber and diversity of the microbiota complement each other for better health outcomes."

In particular, beneficial microbes feast on fermentable fibers—which can come from various vegetables, whole grains and other foods—that resist digestion by human-made enzymes as they travel down the digestive tract. These fibers arrive in the large intestine relatively intact, ready to be devoured by our microbial multitudes.

Microbes can extract the fiber's extra energy, nutrients, vitamins and other compounds for us. Short-chain fatty acids obtained from fiber are of particular interest, as they have been linked to improved immune function, decreased inflammation and protection against obesity.

I always wonder about the benefits of fermentation for humans. For animals that are basically vegetarian it makes a bunch of sense because that is where they get their fats from (in their larger digestive system) but for us, we can eat the fats.

I sometimes wonder, as someone who tends to avoid too much fibre due to digestive issues, if just eating the fats would have the same benefits. KWIM?

I really wish they would do some human trials with a high fat low fibre diet and compare it to higher carb diets, both low and high in fibre.

I gotta say that as a celiac, the idea of under fed, fibre loving bacteria eating away at my previously damaged intestines is a bit alarming. Eek!

I suspect this is another "what's good for the goose may slay the gander" scenarios that will take a while to crack. I fear we're not even into the foothills of understanding individual differences, genotypes, etc., that contribute to what's best for each of our tummies (which aren't about to tell us what to feed them.....).

Thanks for your diplomatic tone, much appreciated!

trillionblue

Hey, yeah I'll check out that podcast! Always great to get new info. Here's a link to our study using one of the end products of fermentation, acetate: nature.com/articles/ijo201623(unfortunately it's behind a paywall)

Results:
In the liver, acetate decreased lipid accumulation and improved hepatic function, as well as increasing mitochondrial efficiency. In white adipose tissue, it inhibited lipolysis and induced 'browning', increasing thermogenic capacity that led to a reduction in body adiposity.

Conclusions:
This study provides novel insights into the peripheral mechanism of action of acetate, independent of central action, including ‘browning’ and enhancement of hepatic mitochondrial function.

Here is a free one I found, not from us:nature.com/articles/srep37589

Everyone's reactions to foods is personal though, just my friendly opinion!

kpk54

@misssararae since you have an interest in being in ketosis for endometriosis, I'll guess you have researched this thoroughly so my question would be, how "deep" into ketosis does one have to be in order to have a positive result regarding endometriosis. And/or based on your personal results, is it possible to have a higher carb level with fiber and still remain in ketosis? Many people achieve ketosis at levels of carb intake higher than the 17 total grams you currently aim for per your food diary. Since you are wanting fiber in your diet and fiber is mostly found in vegetables perhaps it would make sense to test for ketosis and see how HIGH your carbohydrate intake can be and still remain in ketosis?

If you're not currently exercising and you are able, I will suggest you explore adding exercise as it can allow you to be in ketosis while eating higher carb.

Here are some suggestions of high fiber foods in addition to the chia seeds, avocados, raspberries, collards, broccoli, black SOYbeans already mentioned (and I may have missed some already mentioned):

blackberries, flaxseed meal, 100% cocoa powder, almonds (plus other nuts and seeds), spinach, swiss chard (other leafy greens), Brussels Sprouts, kale, asparagus. Try the site in the link below and scroll down to "What to Eat on a Ketogenic Diet"

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto

xosummerrainxo

River Goddess, Do you have the recipe for your fiber psyllium husk buns that you make please?

__Roxy__

@xosummerrainxo
http://www.geniuskitchen.com/recipe/paleo-dough-for-bread-buns-and-rolls-494251?ic1
They look like awesome fluffy buns on the outside, but often have an air pocket on the inside. At first it drove me nuts but I decided to embrace it by stuffing them like a pita

TheMerryMermaid

@misssararae I think a lot about fiber and getting enough greens on this diet.
Along with @acruickshank6876, I love to eat an avocado a day to help get my fiber number around 25g. I often try to include chia seeds, via chia pudding (zillions of ways to make it keto style) to increase fiber intake. It's not just about the 25g fiber goal for me. I want to stay "regular" and those two foods do it for me. 1/4 c. of almonds have a bit of fiber too.
I only count net carbs, so the more fiber I can get on the menu, the lower my carb count. As long as I don't get too far past 20g of carbs daily, I almost always lose.