Cyclical Keto Question

henryjaenperez

I have a question for anyone on or who has done cyclical Keto in the past. I am in Nursing School and currently on a class cycle where my schedule changes every 8 weeks. Could I change my carb refeed days that often without being detrimental to my diet? Would I have to eat strict Keto for a certain time before I went back into a CKD? Any information or feedback would be great. Thank you all.

kpk54

There is currently a lengthy thread in the main forum under "General" that is titled something like Refeeds and Diet Breaks that might be helpful. Most of the first few of the 185 pages have several links that may be helpful (if you've not already explored the thread). It is not keto specific.

@tcunbeliever might share some of her keto experiences. Also @anubis609 is a wealth of information and might stop by to share.

If you have not already, google Lyle McDonald keto CKD in a single search for a wealth of info.

tcunbeliever

Can you change which days you refeed every 8 weeks? Sure, I don't see where frequency of change would matter and I have been known to change mine every month without noticing any detriment.

Do you need to be strict keto for any length of time prior to doing CKD? That is tougher to answer, I think. Much of it is individual. It can take as long as several months to grow an appropriate level of mitochondria to really be totally adapted to keto. But, it can also be that you already have all you need to be totally adapted to keto. If you have been LC or LCHF, the adaptation time is reduced. If you fast or IF, the adaptation time is reduced. If you have done keto before, the adaptation time is reduced. Also, not everyone agrees that full adaptation is even required before CKD, so there's a lot of differing ideas on the matter.

I would say, give it a try, and pay attention to how you feel. If you go straight to CKD and you feel run down on the keto days or you get cravings on the keto days or you get "keto flu" symptoms on the keto days or you just don't ever seem to get into the groove of things on keto - then probably the higher carb days are hindering your ability to get full benefits of keto and you might be better off with a 30-90 day totally keto regimen. If you switch back and forth between the keto/LCHF days without any noticeable detriment, then you are good to go.

I was low carb LCHF for a long time before going keto - I didn't have any problems with the transition...I switched to carb cycling a month or two after regular keto and again, no problems with the transition. Everyone is different, so pay attention to you and adjust as needed for you.

Plus, we'd love to hear about how it goes!

anubis609

CKD doesn't need to have a specific day when it occurs, it's usually a day or two of carb refeeding and minimal fat intake to saturate glycogen stores to be depleted throughout the period until your next refeed day.

That last statement is probably going to half answer your second question, whether you need to be SKD for a period of time before the next refeed, and that's always going to be context dependent. Nursing school is time consuming and mentally demanding, so if that's taking up the bulk of your time away from physical activity, then you may not need as many refeed days since muscle glycogen only gets depleted when the muscles are used to perform intentional muscular contraction via strength/resistance training. And even then, muscle glycogen does get replenished on its own without carbs after about 24 hours post-training.

If the purpose you're doing keto at all is for fat loss, thereby creating an energy deficit via dietary change and macro readjustment, then CKD doesn't serve much of a physiological purpose except that it can help you remain adherent to the diet. Meaning, if you know you can do SKD for a week or two because the carb refeed/free day allows you to stay sane and keep going, then it serves a psychological purpose.

And on top of what @tcunbeliever already excellently pointed out, your level of adaptation and experience in transition will play a part in how well you tolerate cycling in and out of keto. Essentially, with CKD you're going to be in ketosis for about 4-5 days out of the week, and out of ketosis 2-3 days. Some people may not tolerate that constant adaptation flux, especially the newer keto dieters. Long term keto adapted dieters might already be used to that transition, so they feel fine.

If you are also training, the middle ground between SKD and CKD is TKD, which is to time a small amount of easily digestible carbs before your workouts.

Just to credit ketogains:
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Their usual advice would be to base your need for SKD/TKD/CKD is dependent on body fat levels. Overfat dieters (>15% bf) don't necessarily need to move beyond SKD until they've achieved a healthy body fat% (10-15%).

TKD is usually going to be sports/activity specific, so short and sweet general lifting workouts (< 1 hour) don't really need pre-carb intake, where >1 hour might benefit from it. For endurance training/cardio, no carbs are needed. For more physically intense glycolytic training (olympic WL, Xfit, MMA, gymnastics, etc) might need pre-carb to endure the routine.

And CKD would be reserved for lean and advanced trained individuals with specific physique goals/competitions.
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Just to reiterate, everything is context dependent, so to keep it simple, do what works for you and that allows you to remain adherent to your plan and goals.