Half marathon plan. Questions.
Tacklewasher
Posts: 7,122 Member
So, you can thank @TavistockToad for inviting me here 
I've got, what I think, are competing plans and I'm wondering if I can sort them out, or if I need to drop something.
I want to run a 1/2 marathon June 10th. So I want to start training for that. I think I'm okay on timing for it, but I also want to do a swim across the lake (~2K) in July and want to keep up the swimming and take the next set of lessons.
So, right now I can do 5 K in under 30 mins (just). Did a 10K a couple of weeks back (-13C) in 1:05. So I'm not a speedster but if I do my 1/2 in that sort of relative time, I'm happy. So 2:20-2:30 maybe.
I'm trying to put a training plan together that includes swim days, 5K parkrun on Saturdays and long runs on Sundays.
This is what I've come up with based a bit on Higdon and on a friends plan. Swim lessons start April 10th, on Tue and Thur evening. I'd lift in the morning and swim in the evening all all the swim days. My lifting is ~30 mins and nothing too serious, my focus has been on keeping muscle while losing weight and I'd continue the same plan. So not changing anything there.
The first week is typical of what I have been doing up to now, except for 5K on Saturdays. The 10K this week is a charity thing. Sunday has been cross country skiing, so I've been doing that the day after a 5K.
So, is this too much? Is trying to train for my first 1/2 and swim lessons too much? I know the Higdon plan calls for cross training, which can be swimming, so I thought it may work.
I appreciate any input. And, yes, I will overthink this.
I've got, what I think, are competing plans and I'm wondering if I can sort them out, or if I need to drop something.
I want to run a 1/2 marathon June 10th. So I want to start training for that. I think I'm okay on timing for it, but I also want to do a swim across the lake (~2K) in July and want to keep up the swimming and take the next set of lessons.
So, right now I can do 5 K in under 30 mins (just). Did a 10K a couple of weeks back (-13C) in 1:05. So I'm not a speedster but if I do my 1/2 in that sort of relative time, I'm happy. So 2:20-2:30 maybe.
I'm trying to put a training plan together that includes swim days, 5K parkrun on Saturdays and long runs on Sundays.
This is what I've come up with based a bit on Higdon and on a friends plan. Swim lessons start April 10th, on Tue and Thur evening. I'd lift in the morning and swim in the evening all all the swim days. My lifting is ~30 mins and nothing too serious, my focus has been on keeping muscle while losing weight and I'd continue the same plan. So not changing anything there.
The first week is typical of what I have been doing up to now, except for 5K on Saturdays. The 10K this week is a charity thing. Sunday has been cross country skiing, so I've been doing that the day after a 5K.
So, is this too much? Is trying to train for my first 1/2 and swim lessons too much? I know the Higdon plan calls for cross training, which can be swimming, so I thought it may work.
I appreciate any input. And, yes, I will overthink this.
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A couple of things aren't clear from this. What do you have going on weeks 9-12? That's a lot of 'rest' days. I would run on one of the rest days. Then you just say speed, without including distance. If you are doing intervals, you need at least 8-10k so you can include a 2-3 km. warm-up and cool down. Trying to run really fast without a proper warm-up can lead to injury. I assume by tempo, you mean a Higdon type progressive run rather than the kind of tempo that most people mean by that (e.g. a pace between 10k and HM pace aka the pace you could hold for an hour.) If you're doing a regular tempo run, you'll need some warm-up miles for that as well.0
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Thanks for the input.
So, weeks 9-12 are when I'm doing the swim lessons. I'm not sure if between those I should run 3 consecutive days. But I could add some distance on one of the rest days, probably Monday after work so I run Sunday morning and Monday after work. Make sense to me to add.
On the speed question, yeah I need to learn how to do speed work so I put that as a placeholder of sorts. But I'm thinking 2.5 warm up and then fartleks work.
Tempo would be working on 5K race speed.
Also realized I have another 10K in there somewhere and need to add it in.0 -
You're doing 20 miles before a half? That's massive overkill.
Also I would ditch the Friday weights in the first and end parts of the schedule and make that a rest day.0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »You're doing 20 miles before a half? That's massive overkill.
Also I would ditch the Friday weights in the first and end parts of the schedule and make that a rest day.
I'm Canadian. All mileage is in KM. What about switching weights/swim to Tues/Thurs at the outset? Put some mileage in on Mondays and rest Fridays?1 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You're doing 20 miles before a half? That's massive overkill.
Also I would ditch the Friday weights in the first and end parts of the schedule and make that a rest day.
I'm Canadian. All mileage is in KM. What about switching weights/swim to Tues/Thurs at the outset? Put some mileage in on Mondays and rest Fridays?
will you be racing the park run?0 -
Yes. Or at least what passes for racing for me. I'm running it a bit under 30 now and will be trying to improve on that time.0
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Tacklewasher wrote: »Yes. Or at least what passes for racing for me. I'm running it a bit under 30 now and will be trying to improve on that time.
Then I would rest Monday0 -
Short intervals will help your 5k time, but won't really help build your stamina for your HM. Tempo runs where you run 20-40 minutes at your 10k to HM pace will help you most for the half. It will also help the 5k, because it teaches your body to clear out the lactic acid that builds up when you run hard.0
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Tacklewasher wrote: »Yes. Or at least what passes for racing for me. I'm running it a bit under 30 now and will be trying to improve on that time.
I am training for a half right now too. I had read you were running the 5k in less than thirty.... so I tried to do one in 30 today to see if I could haha.... I did NOT. Are you male or female?0 -
WickAndArtoo wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Yes. Or at least what passes for racing for me. I'm running it a bit under 30 now and will be trying to improve on that time.
I am training for a half right now too. I had read you were running the 5k in less than thirty.... so I tried to do one in 30 today to see if I could haha.... I did NOT. Are you male or female?
I'm a guy. About 6 ft and 205 lbs if that makes a difference. My best outdoor time is 29:42 and my best time on a treadmill is 29:22. Now I did my best outdoor before the snow started flying so I kinda think I can beat my treadmill time if I wasn't slogging through that white crap.
Re reading that. Still floors me that I'm 205. 18 months ago I was over 330 and could barely walk for 30 minutes.3 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »WickAndArtoo wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Yes. Or at least what passes for racing for me. I'm running it a bit under 30 now and will be trying to improve on that time.
I am training for a half right now too. I had read you were running the 5k in less than thirty.... so I tried to do one in 30 today to see if I could haha.... I did NOT. Are you male or female?
I'm a guy. About 6 ft and 205 lbs if that makes a difference. My best outdoor time is 29:42 and my best time on a treadmill is 29:22. Now I did my best outdoor before the snow started flying so I kinda think I can beat my treadmill time if I wasn't slogging through that white crap.
Re reading that. Still floors me that I'm 205. 18 months ago I was over 330 and could barely walk for 30 minutes.
That’s incredible! Nice work !!! Treadmills are nice because we can set the pace and incline so it’s even and predictable so our pace isn’t affected by tripping on curbs and unexpected hills!!!
I am in the same boat with the snow and ice, I agree I bet our times will improve because we have to watch our steps and stabilize ourselves so much more, really hoping it’s true.
You are going to be so fast as you continue! It does make me feel better that you are a guy, I am a female and we are slower on average than men... but I would still like to beat my current pace. My time was 35min today 5’3’’ 122lbs . Good luck to you on your training, feel free to add me!0 -
WickAndArtoo wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Yes. Or at least what passes for racing for me. I'm running it a bit under 30 now and will be trying to improve on that time.
I am training for a half right now too. I had read you were running the 5k in less than thirty.... so I tried to do one in 30 today to see if I could haha.... I did NOT. Are you male or female?
comparison is the thief of joy!!!!!
my husband isn't a runner, he did a 5k with only having run 2 miles twice before... he did it in 26 minutes....2 -
TavistockToad wrote: »WickAndArtoo wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Yes. Or at least what passes for racing for me. I'm running it a bit under 30 now and will be trying to improve on that time.
I am training for a half right now too. I had read you were running the 5k in less than thirty.... so I tried to do one in 30 today to see if I could haha.... I did NOT. Are you male or female?
comparison is the thief of joy!!!!!
my husband isn't a runner, he did a 5k with only having run 2 miles twice before... he did it in 26 minutes....
I know several people who "aren't runners" and yet got faster times for their first 5k than my PR at the time. Frustrating... although later I figured out that since this was their only 5k ever and they hadn't really trained for it, they weren't thinking about times like I do and so weren't real precise on their stated finish time, meaning they actually weren't faster than me. 33:whatever is NOT the same as "30 minutes", but I didn't bother telling them that. They literally didn't care about their times. I guess I could learn something from them. Finishing was the accomplishment
I guess I'm getting off-topic, though. The plan looks fine to me, except for the jump in running distance in week 13 from 29k to 39k (which I know is due to the added swimming in the previous weeks). I'll leave it to someone with more experience though, to advise you on whether that's do-able.1 -
TavistockToad wrote: »WickAndArtoo wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Yes. Or at least what passes for racing for me. I'm running it a bit under 30 now and will be trying to improve on that time.
I am training for a half right now too. I had read you were running the 5k in less than thirty.... so I tried to do one in 30 today to see if I could haha.... I did NOT. Are you male or female?
comparison is the thief of joy!!!!!
my husband isn't a runner, he did a 5k with only having run 2 miles twice before... he did it in 26 minutes....
My husband isn't a runner either, but he entered a turkey trot with me last year and beat me. He is still crowing. Admittedly he only beat me by four seconds, and I had run a half marathon four days previously, but even so...3 -
I'll start off by saying I love the incorporation of weight/strength training. So many people forget about that. Anyway, in regards to your plans....
1. Your long run progression is good.
2. Are you trying to go for time or just complete your swim? If time, then I would say add swimming to Saturday as well. Typically the idea is 2 swims for steady, 3 or more swims for build.
3. If you can already do a 10k, you have a good enough base that you starting with lower mileage initially seems too conservative.
4. If you really just want to complete the Half, then you can get away with removing Saturday run all-together if you want...only because you have the base already.
5. Again, with your base, I recommend increasing session distance on Tuesday / Thursday runs.
6. If you are concerned about too much volume of training, you can always add a dedicated rest day (never a bad idea)...so, for example, you could do something like this....
Mon: Rest (by rest I mean stretching, yoga, etc...or you can toss in a strength session here)
Tues: Tempo Run
Wed: Swim/Strength
Thurs: Speed / Pace Run
Fri: Swim / Strength
Sat: Swim / Tempo or Easy Run (I personally don't believe in easy runs...I always make sure each run has a specific purpose other than to just get miles in...but that is me)
Sun: Long run
Overall though, I think your plan is fine as-is. If you are trying to go for times or dramatically improve speeds, then you will definitely need to alter this plan a little bit. Good luck, have fun!0 -
One thought I had about your desire to improve your Parkrun speed: if you do a 15 minute easy warmup, your body will be ready to run fast when the race starts. Without a warmup, it usually takes me a mile or more to get up to speed.0
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Thanks @daj150
For swimming, about a month after the half is a swim across the lake (2.1km) so I want to have a decent swim base that I can spend the last month working on, but again, I just want to finish and am not looking at time. The Tue/thurs swim are for lessons I plan to take.
For weightlifting, if I thought I could avoid it I would, but I know it is important, especially as I get older (I'm 52). But I lift at the Y (where I can also swim) and they have a lack of squat racks, so my lifting is dumbbells and machines. If I thought I could use a squat rack every time I went, I would do SL 5x5.
Saturdays I do the local Parkrun. I enjoy it and am trying to get my wife to come out (she has hurt her knee but will be back at it). I really want to continue these. My Sunday run is going to be mostly before she gets up (we've been married 27 years and our sleep schedules are still opposite).
I will be taking all the comments so far into consideration and will put a new plan up.
At least I did my 5K today. Just can't wait until I don't need to do it on the treadmill. Hate that thing.0 -
In regards to swimming, twice a week should be fine, just don't miss 2/wk. I don't see the need for a squat rack when you have dumbbells. So many squat drills that I feel work your muscles a lot better than using a bar...but then again, I am all about targeted strength training...and I will lean towards single-leg type stuff and the like. Great job on your 5k...treadmill can be a bit boring...doing an hour run on treadmill today...I'll be watching shows on my phone to distract me, lol.0
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I've made changes. Move weight/swim to all Tuesdays. I just seems to fit my schedule better. Lift in the morning and swim after work.
Started with longer Sunday runs. Not sure what I will do this week as there is still snow on the trails so may go cross country again, but it's getting kinda warm so I'll see.
Mondays are in the plan, but will be optional. I may drop days if I feel fatigued. My idea is if I run Sunday morning for my long run, and Monday after work for a shorter run it won't be too much and I'll have more than 30 hours in between. Going to at least limit Monday to 5K.
Wed I'm not sure if I'll be doing before work (which will limit my time available) or after work. I think the short ones to start will be before but the longer ones will be after. I'm usually 35-40 mins in the gym in the morning.
I've signed up for some 10K days through MEC (Like REI but in Canada). 5 10K races for $60 total so it was cheap but I needed to put them in. That's the lower distance on the Sundays.
I dropped the speed days but that may be part of the Monday runs.
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3 races in 7 days?0
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The races count as speedwork, so you probably don't need any formal intervals. You might try adding strides to some of your runs. They are short fast bursts of speed where you accelerate for about 25 steps then slow down for the same. They help with leg turnover and form.0
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Quick question. Do stairs (106 of them) count as hill work? Got a set near my house that would be real convenient to do if they count as hill work.0
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They'll strengthen your legs and lungs.0
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TavistockToad wrote: »3 races in 7 days?
You're referring to the final week in the plan? I think the first 2 mean "Race Pace". So 5k at race pace on Monday and 6k at race pace on Wednesday.
Personally I'd drop that Wednesday one and just rest. I'd also drop the Thursday weights session in the final week. Going to the start line fully rested and well fueled would be my personal preference.0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »3 races in 7 days?
You're referring to the final week in the plan? I think the first 2 mean "Race Pace". So 5k at race pace on Monday and 6k at race pace on Wednesday.
Personally I'd drop that Wednesday one and just rest. I'd also drop the Thursday weights session in the final week. Going to the start line fully rested and well fueled would be my personal preference.
i wouldn't do anything at race pace that week personally... apart from the actual race!2 -
Huh. Thought I posted at 1 in the morning. Must have hit a wrong button.
I'll re-think the last week, but have lots of time to do that.
I'm more wondering if I should up my mileage now and bump Wed up to 10 or so. It would mean running after work instead of before work, but I just think I'm not getting enough KM's in. Or increase Sunday. I definitely had more in the tank after the last 2 Sundays (10 & 11km). Or is it good how it is and I need to not push?0 -
If you can, I'd increase the midweek run. More miles overall do more good than simply increasing your long run distance. And it makes the long run feel easier if you have other medium long runs during the week. I'm following a marathon plan (Pfitzinger) that has peak mileage of 55 miles, but includes two runs of 10+ as well as a long run ( 16-20) most weeks. One reason I wanted to follow this plan was I had so much trouble with the long runs on previous marathon cycles. They are a lot less intimidating now. For a half marathon, doing 6-8 miles a couple of days a week makes weekend long runs of 10-14 feel pretty comfortable.1
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Thanks. Ended up at a run clinic tonight I hadn't planned for so I think sleeping in a bit and doing my run in the evening would be a good idea for tomorrow. Plus I have to take a short trip Thursday so there will be no time for the gym etc.0
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spiriteagle99 wrote: »If you can, I'd increase the midweek run. More miles overall do more good than simply increasing your long run distance.
This can be tough to fit in, but pretty much all studies and coaches agree with this strategy. I'd say in my own experience I felt a dip in the long run performance (energy levels) for the first maybe 3 weeks after adding in 10-14k mid week runs, but by about week 4 it was like a switch had been flicked and the long run no longer saw me immobile for the rest of the day.
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I'm not an expert, but have done a couple of half marathons. My 5K PR is 24:24, 10K is beyond 1 hr. (rainy / wet conditions post-holing in mud), but I did a 6.5 mile race in good conditions in less than 1 hr... and my HM PR is just over 2:02. I don't swim at all.
Havign said all of that, I think your plan looks good now that you have added rest days. I would have done weights and swimming on alternating days also.0
