WW Freestyle Poll
countcurt
Posts: 593 Member
Just curious whether people in this group have considered/tried WW Freestyle and what the preliminary thoughts are?
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I signed up for a one-month online membership the first of February to get an idea of what all the hoopla was about. Within 3 days of the first week, I had already used all of my weekly points. Sticking to my daily points for the rest of the week was just too painful. I canceled my membership when the month was up.
My preliminary thoughts? I wasn't willing to give up things I had become accustomed to eating without counting points for while following the original Core plan (oatmeal, cream of wheat, and grits are three that come to mind immediately).
I have several (6) friends who joined WW the first of the year because of the "zero-point" foods. Of the six, five of them had gains the first three weeks.0 -
I also noticed that milk is not on the list of 0 point foods. I hadn't even noticed that oatmeal, grits, potatoes and popcorn had all been removed. The 'penalty' on other foods (a 10 gram piece of chocolate is 3 points for the 58 calories!) can be pretty daunting.
More important, I can understand why people might gain weight on this iteration. By no longer needing to weigh, measure or track, some of the crucial lessons from WW are lost- those being:
-understanding what a portion is
-learning to not eat when not hungry
Although it's tougher to overeat (calorically) from that list, it's not impossible. At all.
That said, my brother has found success with the plan- he's lost 17 pounds so far. Of course, he is at a point where he needs to lose quite a bit of weight (I'm guessing 100 pounds or more) and so there's probably more wiggle room in the calories for him.
The plan also encourages lean proteins as well as fresh fruits and vegetables. Which is a healthier starting place for many people, particularly those of us who have found ourselves needing to lose weight to begin with. I find that part overly prescriptive (read: diet-y) though, so I'm not sure I'm down with that.0 -
I still think P+ was a better plan.0
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I tried Freestyle online also just cancelled. I am totally uncomfortable with not taking points or calorie values. I in fact I did the freestyle and took SP points yesterday and the result was I had rollovers compared to using 1 wkly. pt. So I can see how it is possible to over eat free pts.
This for me actually amounted to 10 pts. difference.0 -
Jerdtrmndone wrote: »I tried Freestyle online also just cancelled. I am totally uncomfortable with not taking points or calorie values. I in fact I did the freestyle and took SP points yesterday and the result was I had rollovers compared to using 1 wkly. pt. So I can see how it is possible to over eat free pts.
This for me actually amounted to 10 pts. difference.
And what were your SPs, and Freestyle SPs allotment? Mine went down 11 SPs with Freestyle. And my weeklies dropped too, by 7 SPs.0 -
This was what I posted about it here in early January. My updated thoughts are below the original.
"I've been doing the new program for the past five days, and like it MUCH better than SmartPoints and feel like I can get back on track without whining with this program. I got to goal in 2013 on a combination of PointsPlus (the original where the minimum for women was 29 PP) and SFT. I gained a lot of weight back the past couple of years and tried to do SmartPoints a number of times last year but was never satisfied/sated with the amount of food based on what were usually decent choices and was frustrated by the huge penalty for sweets.
My criticism of the new program is that with so many zero point foods, a true newbie may not learn the relative caloric (point) value of these foods to other choices, and I think that knowledge is important in the long run. I would NOT like this program had I not first learned about "relative point values" via the original PointsPlus program. To me, that program allowed for a lot of experimentation and therefore learning. So while "zero point foods" may seem like a "gimme," one still needs to understand the relative caloric (point) value of 4 ounces of skinless chicken breast or fish to 4 ounces of steak or pork and the feeling of satiety and enjoyment brought by each in order to make sustainable choices over time.
"Zero" is relative to nothing. ☺"
UPDATE: I'm not as enthusiastic about the program as I was in January. Because of the penalty on high carb foods, I'm frequently out of points but still very hungry. I started double-tracking in MFP and found even though I was out if points, I was only at 1000 calories or less. And I don't eat a ton of junk food. So I'm losing weight only because I'm double-tracking and counting calories and points. I'm far enough away from redeeming lifetime that I may drop WW.
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And I agree with @lowbar31 that P+ was a much better plan. In a pinch, I still use the 38 calories/point rule to find the relative value of something to my entire day.
I've seen discussions on other MFP boards, and it seems most people don't like Freestyle. I'll bet $100 the next version will look a lot more like a combination of the original P+ and SFT. (Which much be Core, right?) And I'll bet they introduce end of this year.0 -
I just started trying Freestyle this past weekend. But I don't believe in free food, so I bring the idea of portion control and eating slowly till satisfied. I track everything on MFP and manually convert to Freestyle, less "zero point" food. So far I find it a bit improvement over Smart Points, but not as good as Points Plus. But again, when I restarted I doubled down on portion control, eating sensibly and not letting quantity not matter because it was free. I have to watch my carbs anyway and still use MFP to track the breakdown, to make sure I am getting protein in each meal, and not going high on carbs. I reduced my carb target on MFP offset by protein. I am not ready to buy a monthly pass yet and may never be. I WI once a month at a Lifetimers meeting. You still have to bring a healthy lifestyle mentality to Freestyle to avoid it being a ticket to problems.
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I agree with a lot of what you all posted above. I think I'm OK with Freestyle but I had to have the 0-points but not 0-calories lesson beat into me. And that wasn't because I was going crazy with the 0-point foods but I did need to make some adjustments. After having gained a bit, I'm back to my WW maintenance weight and able to stay the course.
I think there's lessons to be learned with FS. As I listen to people in my meeting, it seems a lot of them are putting a lot of energy into resistance or are unwilling to change. I can certainly appreciate the frustration of being on any weight-loss plan and actually gaining weight instead of losing. However, I think it's important to be a bit flexible, consider trying FS's approach and make adjustments accordingly.
For the time being, I will continue with FS. I think my adjustment period taught me how to optimize the 0-point foods. Had I let some initial gains dictate my tolerance for it, I probably would have quit it a couple months ago. I feel like I did actually gain some flexibility by sticking with it, but I've got to do it with common sense and mindfulness. Those are not bad lessons for me to learn.0 -
I'm finding Freestyle challenging, but not impossible.
On the negative side, there is a lot of "magic" in the program. What I mean by this is that some foods are zero-point, and I understand that the goal of making these zero-point foods is to steer us into eating plain protein, plain fruit, plain veggies, etc. That's not a terrible thing.
There also seems to be a brutal hit for things that aren't on the zero-point list. Yes, you can have a piece of bread, but not more than that. Again, I get it, but it is less of a "bank-account" approach (you can spend your points on whatever you want) and more of a good/bad-food approach.
Also, like others, I find that if I'm "on," then I don't spend very many points, but if I'm slightly "off" I end up burning my daily and weekly points very quickly. If that happens early in the week (which is pretty much always, because of how my week is organized), then I spend the rest of the week feeling like I'm behind the eight-ball and trying to play catch-up.
Finally, it's hard to really get a sense of the "spirit" of the program. I started WW on the Momentum program, which was a pretty straight-forward points=calories program.
With all that said, on the plus side, the program does direct you towards a long-term approach that is probably a decent approach: if you can "learn" to eat that fits well within the program, I think the likelihood for long-term success is great.1 -
I also noticed that milk is not on the list of 0 point foods. I hadn't even noticed that oatmeal, grits, potatoes and popcorn had all been removed. The 'penalty' on other foods (a 10 gram piece of chocolate is 3 points for the 58 calories!) can be pretty daunting.
Yeah, I didn't mention the skim milk, potatoes, and popcorn. Or whole wheat and/or brown rice pasta. Those are also gone.
I find it odd that skim milk isn't on the list because I get as much protein from 8 oz of skim milk (8g) as I do with some of the other protein foods. I found a long time ago that if I'm "hungry", having a glass of skim milk will curb that hunger.
When I was following Core, I could make hot chocolate using 8 oz of skim milk and a packet of low-calorie hot chocolate mix and only count points for the mix. I would often have that at night to take care of my chocolate craving. With Freestyle, I had to count points for both the milk AND the mix so I found myself feeling "deprived".
Same with mashed potatoes. I could use a large potato, skim milk, and a tablespoon of real butter and only count points for the butter. With Freestyle, I had to count points for everything.
What I'm doing now is sort of a combination plan I guess. I'm using the Core list of foods, but tracking calories in MFP. So far it seems to be working well for me. I *am* tracking everything and I'm using the knowledge I gained over the years regarding portion sizes. I'm also carefully weighing and measuring things that weren't on the list of Core foods.
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I'll bet $100 the next version will look a lot more like a combination of the original P+ and SFT. (Which much be Core, right?) And I'll bet they introduce end of this year.
I'll bet the change comes BEFORE the end of the year. The plan that introduced Core as an alternative to counting points was rolled out in August of 2004 after some dismal results from the plan that was rolled out in January 2004. I think that was the Flex plan? All I know is that I didn't lose jack#$%! on the plan that was rolled out in January between then and July. I told my leader in July that I wouldn't be rejoining the next session of our at-work program and told her why. I remember she told me, "Don't give up yet. I can't tell you much about it, but there's a new plan coming out in about a month and I think it will be perfect for you." She was so right.
And yes, basically SFT is a modified version of Core. There were *some* foods removed from SFT that were on the original Core plan. Sugar-free pudding mix is one that comes to mind immediately. People used to complain that they couldn't find sugar-free/fat-free pudding mix. They didn't seem to realize that it was fat-free when you used skim milk to make the pudding! LOL
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Jerdtrmndone wrote: »
I tried Freestyle online also just cancelled. I am totally uncomfortable with not taking points or calorie values. I in fact I did the freestyle and took SP points yesterday and the result was I had rollovers compared to using 1 wkly. pt. So I can see how it is possible to over eat free pts.
This for me actually amounted to 10 pts. difference.
Al Howard wrote;
And what were your SPs, and Freestyle SPs allotment? Mine went down 11 SPs with Freestyle. And my weeklies dropped too, by 7 SPs.
Al I was getting 40 daily and 42 wkly. Now 30 and 42 wkly.0 -
Mine were 42 daily, now 31 (with a weight loss of about 5# since the beginning on FS. After looking, my weeklies only see down a couple, 42 now, and can't remember before.0
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I remember that my daily points went down by about 5 points and also my weekly points dropped a bit too but a lot more no count stuff now too for me. I still eat the same but do have to dip into my AP points for extras which was optional before.0
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@Jerdtrmndone Mine were 41 daily, now 40.
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I am at 23 points per day with 35 weeklies. I essentially burn all of my weeklies on Friday night/Saturday and so spend the rest of the week trying to dig back out of the hole!
It is certainly working, though. See the Friday weigh-in thread, where I posted my loss chart.0 -
Me too Steve. But I don't have a good excuse like you do.0
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I get 27 dp and 42 wp. I am finding the program to be easy if you still retain good ole WW lifestyle habits. It is Zero Point Food not Free Food. You still have to eat sensibly (portion control), eat till satisfied not full, measure/weigh (even zero point stuff), be aware of false hunger, tracking, etc. If you focus on the message the TV ads can give you alone, it could get ugly fast2
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myallforjcbill wrote: »If you focus on the message the TV ads can give you alone, it could get ugly fast
Amen! And I think that's exactly what a lot of newbies focus on.
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myallforjcbill wrote: »I just started trying Freestyle this past weekend. But I don't believe in free food, so I bring the idea of portion control and eating slowly till satisfied. I track everything on MFP and manually convert to Freestyle, less "zero point" food. So far I find it a bit improvement over Smart Points, but not as good as Points Plus. But again, when I restarted I doubled down on portion control, eating sensibly and not letting quantity not matter because it was free. I have to watch my carbs anyway and still use MFP to track the breakdown, to make sure I am getting protein in each meal, and not going high on carbs. I reduced my carb target on MFP offset by protein. I am not ready to buy a monthly pass yet and may never be. I WI once a month at a Lifetimers meeting. You still have to bring a healthy lifestyle mentality to Freestyle to avoid it being a ticket to problems.
You're a veteran, so you are more likely to grasp the importance of portion control and the distinction between zero points and 'free'. Do you think this approach would work for you if you hadn't had your prior experience?0
