Longtime Lurker with Lab Results Questions
mikealk342
Posts: 4 Member
Hello All and thank you for the information you so freely share on this board. I've been a longtime lurker and LCHF for the second time since January of this year. So far, so good. I feel great and I've lost 25 lbs. I recently had a physical with complete urine and blood work. My doctor is concerned about an elevated calcium level, very high (Alkaline Phosphatase (ALK-Phos) and normal/upper limit of PTH (Parathyroid). She has tested for and ruled out issues with my liver and believes the issue is with calcium leaking from my bones. I should mention that my ALK-Phos and calcium increased since my last physical. Just wondering if LCHF WOE has had an impact. Any thoughts or experiences with this?
My next step is to see an endocrinologist for further evaluation.
My other lab results were normal and my bp is fine. Ketones according to the report are 3+
TIA
My next step is to see an endocrinologist for further evaluation.
My other lab results were normal and my bp is fine. Ketones according to the report are 3+
TIA
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Replies
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Have you checked your Vit D levels? Hyperparathyroidism?
https://labtestsonline.org/glossary/hyperparathyroidism
Do you have kidney disease, or non-cancerous tumours on the parathyroid glands?
If your level of Vit D is too low (VERY common in N. America) and you are supplementing, you need to be sure you are pairing it with Vit K2: https://healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-and-vitamin-k3 -
Thanks @canadajineh for the information. My doctor checked my kidneys, no problem there except non-alcohol fatty liver. It's part of the reason why I am working on my weight.
My Vitamin D was low in 2016, but is now in the normal range. I do take a supplement and didn't know about pairing it with Vitamin K2. I guess the Endo doc will check on the parathyroid gland.
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PTH inhibits osteoblasts, which build up bone matter through osteogenesis by depositing calcium into bone.
You may want to consider talking to your doctor about calcium absorption and options for supplements which can help, like Vitamin D, or eliminating certain foods which can hinder absorption (of which there are a SLEW).1 -
In order for Calcium to get where it needs to go, you have do have D to absorb it, K2 to tell it where to go, magnesium and potassium to get it there, and boron and zinc to keep it there!! It's been a struggle for me, let me tell you! The kicker was the Boron... Made SO much difference. Apparently, you know how magnesium is just getting recognized for the widespread deficiencies? Boron is on the bus right behind it for being critical, but unrecognized...
Edited to add: apparently, most of us don't need to take calcium at all - we're just so nutritionally deficient that we can't absorb it, route it, move it, and store it properly... I found this fascinating!
@mikealk342 This article was the one that got me researching all of this. Sounds like it might apply to you, too. Very interesting and educational!
http://gwens-nest.com/high-blood-calcium-parathyroid-tumor/2 -
Have you had your other vitamin levels checked? Vitamin D, K2, Magnesium, and Zinc are all calcium cofactors, and there is a good chance that if your calcium is out of whack, that they are too. The body is designed so that the bones absorb and store excess calcium and then release back in to the blood stream when needed. So either there is some sort of dysfunction going on with this process for you, perhaps the issue is within your parathyroid glands, or you have some other vitamin deficiencies that need to be addressed.1
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Just to add emphasis to what others have said, K2 is vital to making sure calcium goes where it is supposed to go (bones and teeth) and not where it shouldn't (arteries causing CVD or joints causing arthritis).
One reason most people don't know much about K2 is for decades researchers assumed it was the same as K1. Now that they realize the difference, it looks like the general population is deficient primarily because sources have slowly gone away.
It is only available in animal sources and some fermented foods. Natto is the best source, but it is rarely eaten outside Japan. Dairy from grass fed cows is a good source, but most dairy found now is from grain fed cows, so it is not so good.
Here is one more link for you to check out that gives a good history from the Weston A Price Foundation.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/on-the-trail-of-the-elusive-x-factor-a-sixty-two-year-old-mystery-finally-solved/2 -
Oh, and you mention that your D is in range - if it isn't above 75% of the range, so in the top quarter of the range, it is not at optimal levels. (Thyroid patient here who has learned a bunch in the past decade about the significant difference between "lab acceptable range," "patient acceptable range," and "optimal functional range."
For me, the first two are meaningless. If my nutrients, vitamins, and minerals are not at 75% level or better (on nearly all of them that I have researched, I've found this to be true), they are nowhere near optimal levels...
In fact, as an example, if you have ANYTHING related to vitamin D going on, most proactive medical practitioners will start treating you if you are below the midway/halfway point of the range.1 -
The brainwashing from online/internet "experts" is strong...3
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Keto_Vampire wrote: »The brainwashing from online/internet "experts" is strong...
*Mod hat*
If you find anything that anyone here has said to be factually incorrect, then by all means dispute then with the research to support it. However, unconstructive, confrontational, and ad hominem responses like this are not welcome here and are in violation of the MFP sitewide community rules. This is your first warning.5 -
To satisfy the research regarding K2 as I do go through the medical/research journals regarding this, however since most are not as nerdy as me, I tend to share the more easily digestible articles that match up with the research I find:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5494092/
https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/144/5/743/46157222 -
https://www.nof.org/patients/patient-support/faq/
"In addition to calcium and vitamin D, I have heard that vitamin K is important for my bones. If I have osteoporosis, should I be taking a vitamin K supplement?
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Like many vitamins and minerals, vitamin K appears to play a role in your bone health. The recommended daily intake is 90 -120 micrograms (μg).There are two types of vitamin K. They are vitamin K1 and vitamin K2. Vitamin K1 sources include kale, brussels sprouts, spinach, mustard greens, turnip greens and vegetable oils. Vitamin K2 sources include egg yolks, organ meats and natto (a type of fermented soybean).
At this time, research does not support the practice of taking vitamin K supplements to prevent osteoporosis and broken bones. Taking a supplement doesn’t always have the same effects as eating whole foods that contain that same nutrient. Also, because vitamin K plays a role in blood clotting, getting too much vitamin K could cause problems in individuals who take blood thinning medicines or are at risk of blood clots. More research will help us to determine the amount and type of vitamin K that is necessary for bone health. Until we know more, try to get enough vitamin K from food sources.
Talk to your healthcare provider about any nutrition deficiencies you may have and discuss which supplements you should take for your bone health."
Gullibility is @ an all-time high with the internet1 -
It's worth noting that organizations and governments tend to be notoriously behind the actual research.
From this one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16594930A double-blind randomized placebo-controlled study of 63 postmenopausal women with osteoporosis. The vitamin K2 group (n = 33) received 45 mg menatetrenone and 1500 mg calcium carbonate per day and the control group (n = 30) received placebo and 1500 mg calcium carbonate per day for 48 weeks.
[...]
After 48 weeks of treatment, the mean percentage change of lumbar BMD in the vitamin K2 group was significantly higher (P < 0.05) than that of the control group. The undercarboxylated OC level decreased by 55.9% in the menatetrenone group and 9.3% in the control group compared with the baseline level.
In other words, K2+calcium is proven better for bone health than calcium alone in the gold standard of tests (double-blind randomized, placebo controlled).
A more recent review of several randomized control trials also show better skeletal health with K2 - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24841104
And another RCT with calcium+D3 vs calcium+D3+K2 - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21860562
Regarding Vitamin K supplementation vs food sources - while food sources of micronutrients is almost universally the preferred route whenever possible, K2 is a fair bit more difficult to obtain or know how much you're getting, because a) it's not tracked as distinct from K1, despite its drastic difference in action, and b) it's only found in significant levels in a handful of foods. Now, as low-carbers, we're more likely to eat those foods (dairy, certain meats), but some of the research suggests that even in those items, the K2 levels are found most optimally under certain conditions (for example, with butter, there's more K2 in fully grass fed butter than in grain-supplemented butter), so odds are pretty good that while we might not be deficient per se, our levels probably aren't optimal and we could benefit from supplementation.
Additionally, the test for vitamin K deficiency is rarely used and generally only ordered if the patient has demonstrated bleeding or clotting issues (at which point the person is severely deficient), and even then, it's not definitive until...vitamin K supplementation is prescribed and a follow-up test and bleeding/clotting issue improves.
Furthermore, vitamin K has a low toxicity level. In other words, it's almost impossible to overdose on it. Now, it does have a few interactions to some medications, so it's definitely worth further research and discussion with your doctor if you're taking one of the listed medications. The most important of these interactions is with anticoagulants.
However, if you're not taking any of the listed medications, it's safe to consider supplementing it, but if you're at all unsure, by all means, talk to your doctor about it.
By the way, "talk to your doctor" is implied in all information provided in this group that's health related (and explicitly stated in the site's Terms and Conditions). We encourage self-advocating, being an informed patient, and working with doctors in a collaborative relationship, but the information provided here does not replace medical care. The goal here is to provide the information to allow people to make informed choices for themselves.Keto_Vampire wrote: »Gullibility is @ an all-time high with the internet
*Mod hat*
This is the second time in this thread, and the third or so time that the group mods have found your posts to be in violation of the MFP community guidelines:1. No Attacks or Insults and No Reciprocation
a) Do not attack, mock, or otherwise insult others. You can respectfully disagree with the message or topic, but you cannot attack the messenger. This includes attacks against the user’s spelling or command of written English, or belittling a user for posting a duplicate topic.
Again, you are more than welcome to dispute the topic and provide supporting evidence. However, if you continue to post remarks such as the above-quoted, we will remove you from the group. This is your final warning.4 -
I honestly don't care, you guys/girls can believe whatever nonsense you wish.
No one here clearly understands what Level of Evidence is & just want to validate his/her own opinion by dismissing credible references...with pubmed ninja skills (no one has time to rip apart your sea of low level of evidence studies). Seriously, get some help/college education on how to determine what is a credible source of information
Peace out, try not to waste too much money on snake oil3 -
Your responses have all been very helpful. I have a lot to research and discuss with my doctor. I see the endocrinologist on Monday and will inquire about Vitamin D, Vitamin K and PTH.2
