Does insulin resistance really cause obesity? (Spoiler alert: no)
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anubis609
Posts: 3,966 Member
If no one has ever come across the more knowledgeable LC/keto groups on facebook, I really recommend them. The insulin model/theory of obesity is and was never a solid argument.
All good scientists and students of learning appropriately change their views when evidence dictates. Evolution of thought and practice is not a weakness. It's what propagates society and humans as a species.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/04/12/does-insulin-really-resistance-cause-obesity/
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/05/03/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/
All good scientists and students of learning appropriately change their views when evidence dictates. Evolution of thought and practice is not a weakness. It's what propagates society and humans as a species.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/04/12/does-insulin-really-resistance-cause-obesity/
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/05/03/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/
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Am always interested in learning, so.....I was under the impression Insulin was responsible for the storage of fats/obesity. The high carb diet causes more/greater insulin spikes, and a prolonged duration of insulin, which is responsible for resistance. Resistance/pre-diabetic leads to higher, and higher releases of insulin equaling more, and more storage especially when combining carbs, and fats in the diet. Whether you can continuously make new adipose sites, or max out the ones you have has very little bearing on how you became overweight.4
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The role of insulin is to act as a regulation meter for fatty acids in adipocytes. It merely responds to the cellular energy status of cells and if there is an abundance of storage within fat cells, insulin is called upon to hold back the fatty acids.
It is the overswelling (inflammation) of fat cells that keeps insulin levels elevated for prolonged periods, and in turn leads to insulin resistance, as discussed in both linked articles regarding the personal fat threshold.
So it's not insulin that shoved glucose and fat into the fat cells, it's the fact that there was too much circulating fat and glucose (from a hypercaloric diet) that needed to be controlled from being stored in organs and skeletal tissue in the first place.
Regardless of your frame, everyone has a personal fat threshold and once it's met, is when IR occurs and eventually metabolic syndrome such as prediabetes or T2D.1 -
I thought the old platform suggests that most people who are overweight, and in particular hold fat around the midsection, are insulin resistant. Not that the resistance made them that way. The fact that the people who can produce new adipose tissue sites represent only a very small percentage of the populous, would not change the old way of thinking.0
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Whether someone's liver has the ability to produce new adipocytes vs causing inflammation via overload to current adipocytes are not going to be discernible by visual assessment. Regardless of either situation, insulin plays a role in, but is not the driver of obesity. A continuously positive energy balance (hypercaloric diet) is responsible for that.
Insulin sensitivity allows for better substrate shuttling efficiency, whether it's to partition nutrients for building lean body mass or storing it away in fat. On the other hand, a clinically overfat, insulin resistant individual would actually lose fat much more readily compared to their insulin sensitive counterparts.
And you're touching on very good points that segue into the overarching conclusion: that everyone wants to focus on insulin's role, but they are missing the hypercaloric forest for the hormone trees.
The body's ability to store and become fat is protective. It's a natural consequence of overabundance. If the body couldn't get fat, problems would arise much sooner, which affects another small portion of the population; lipodystrophy - the inability to to produce adipose cells for storage. They look lean but suffer metabolic problems much sooner and worse than their overweight counterparts. Another reason why we can't just use phenotyping as a measurement of health.1 -
If insulin were the driver of obesity, Jimmy Moore wouldn’t have become obese again after losing weight down to a healthy level on keto.
His recent protein experiment shows that he is insulin rather sensitive and has a normal insulin level as you’d expect him to have on keto.
Yet he has become obese again.
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And funny enough, he became obese again because he's very much insulin sensitive. His narrative of shoveling dietary fat to "heal" his insulin resistance is just adding more and more fat mass to his body.
His latest carnivore experiment was immediately followed by a "much needed fat gorge refeed" because he couldn't take 7 days of protein, yet claims a 28 day fast (which actually wasn't 28 days) is so easy to do.
No, Jimbo. You have an eating disorder and are lying to thousands of people.3 -
I've barely scratched the surface of the links attached, but this conversation has me intrigued. Thanks for posting.2
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Really "gray" post, thanks for sharing1
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »If insulin were the driver of obesity, Jimmy Moore wouldn’t have become obese again after losing weight down to a healthy level on keto.
His recent protein experiment shows that he is insulin rather sensitive and has a normal insulin level as you’d expect him to have on keto.
Yet he has become obese again.
The situation you are referring to would put him in the small group mentioned above. If he was like most of us he would have a threshold by which his adipose tissue would not accept anymore fats/glucose stores no matter how much insulin was released, insulin resistant. If he falls into the small % of people who can create more adipose tissue cells, he can basically increase size and weight without limit, or insulin resistance ever developing.0 -
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there is some interesting information there, but the spelling errors and frequently calling fat people 'blessed' make me question his intelligence.0
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@catherineg3
I haven't run across that part myself, yet, but I have in the past been very thankful for the "cushioning" of my obesity - and slowing down progression towards diabetes, at least long enough for me to take note. I think that is where the concept of being "blessed" is oriented... That the reflex to become obese, rather than develop full blown diabetes and impair all metabolic function, is somewhat protective...in a manner. As long as it is address, anyway.1 -
catherineg3 wrote: »there is some interesting information there, but the spelling errors and frequently calling fat people 'blessed' make me question his intelligence.
He's saying "blessed," because from an evolutionary perspective, gaining fat is a good thing. It becomes dysfunctional because we've taken ourselves out of the natural order.3 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »catherineg3 wrote: »there is some interesting information there, but the spelling errors and frequently calling fat people 'blessed' make me question his intelligence.
He's saying "blessed," because from an evolutionary perspective, gaining fat is a good thing. It becomes dysfunctional because we've taken ourselves out of the natural order.
Very much this. Sadly, I've been kicked out/blocked from most of Jimmy's groups/social media not because I'm purposely trolling him, but out of earnest concern that he is touting the complete denial of energy balance in favor of chasing ketones, which by extension also promotes the absolute minimum of protein intake. He's free to do what he likes to himself, but he has this cultish following of metabolically deranged people that place a biblical faith in his words.
Most recently, when he was called out for eating an actual 8oz stick of butter with meals, he clumsily backtracked to say it was a joke, yet evidence of saved screenshots have shown he publicly admitted to eating actual sticks of Kerrygold.
Ironically, as the links I posted also suggest, high fat feeding may not stimulate an acute insulin response, but in the long-term with chronic hypercaloric fat feeding, basal insulin does increase over time for the exact reason that IR happens... excess fat stores require more insulin to meter fatty acids. He may be 'blessed' to generate new fat cells that protect him from metabolic dysregulation, but that doesn't protect him from all the other physical stressors that come with obesity.
http://physiqonomics.com/health-at-every-size/3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd8QFD5Ht18
