Intermittent Fasting

ShannonKirton

So ironically, I was thinking about IF for about a week or so now and trying to figure out how I would work this into my schedule. When lo and behold this morning I received an email newsletter from Nerd Fitness about it!

So I know there are a few ways to do it like 24 hour fasting, and fasting from 8 pm the previous night to 12 pm the following day etc. My question is, how do I make this work with my carb re-feed, or is the carb re-feed something I might need to drop? I don't think IF is something I wish to incorporate into my schedule every single day but maybe 2 times a week or so to start. I would like to lean out still which is why I'm thinking of throwing this in the mix.

During the week would be the easiest time for me to get this done as I'll be at work and not at home where I'll be tempted to eat all the lovely food in the house.

Suggestions, thoughts, opinions, ideas?

CaveBrain

I'm not experienced in IF, but sometimes I do it by default. I suppose it will depend on whether you plan on fasting for 24 hours or within an eating window. If within a window, then I would imagine that you would refeed within that timeframe. If going for 24 hours, then no re-feed. I would like to try this, but not sure of the benefit.

Akimajuktuq

I IF every day (but I do have BP coffee in the morning-which does not break the benefit of the fast). My eating window is usually 18/6 and sometimes smaller on weekends.

I get moderate amounts of exercise and some non-structured weight training. I don't ever carb re-feed and I don't plan on ever starting so I can't speak to that. My body loves to run on ketones so I stay ketogenic. (However, since I am not a professional athlete or body builder it is certainly possible that there are some kind of benefits of carb re-feed that I'm not aware of.)

My body loves what I'm doing as proven by the elimination of all my many health problems and effortless weight loss. I also do my IF both at work and at home. I am not hungry at all during this period (even when I don't have BP coffee) so there is no issue with being tempted by the food in the house. Actually, since I eat so few carbs I am never stimulated to eat until I am truly very hungry.

ShannonKirton

My problem with IF at home is that when I'm bored, I tend to eat. This is a habit that I am finding quite hard to break even though I'm doing so much better now than I ever have been. I'm a lot better at it than I ever was but it still comes back to haunt me every now and again.

This is why is figure that doing it at work will make it seem a lot less stressful.

As for the carb-refeeds, that too is something new and I'm experimenting with these things to see what works for me. What I might end up doing is dropping the refeeds and just going to IF so that I can lean out. Not sure what some other Paleo friends might think. Many of them have been doing this a lot longer than I have and have the experience to guide me in the right direction

beepermad

I attempted IF for a while but find myself too miserable to continue. But having done so, I also did a lot of research into it. First, I dug up a lot of articles that were primarily "OMG IT WORKS SO WELL," but I noticed a trend in that they all concerned IF's impact on male bodies. The male physique, based on what I read, takes to IF really, really ****ing well. So, I did women-specific research. What I found was that those that did the 24 hour span of fasting suffered some pretty detrimental health problems as a result, including sleeplessness (which I can't function with).

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/women-and-intermittent-fasting/#axzz2bIecnukT

http://fitisafeministissue.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/intermittent-fasting-and-why-it-might-not-work-as-well-for-women/

The 18/6 split or however you wish to configure it seems to reduce any health problems that the 5:2 split may cause, and there are women out there seeing pretty quick weight loss because of it.

http://www.fitnessrxwomen.com/training/workout-tips-advice/intermittent-fasting/

Granted, I have done no research into the validity of the authors. But take it for what it's worth.

ShannonKirton

Thanks for the info beepermad. It seems to me that there are some vastly varying results for women doing IF. I think I might need to do some more research before considering this and see where my refeeds take me first.

Although I guess you can count this as part of my "reasearch" lol

Akimajuktuq

My problem with IF at home is that when I'm bored, I tend to eat. This is a habit that I am finding quite hard to break even though I'm doing so much better now than I ever have been. I'm a lot better at it than I ever was but it still comes back to haunt me every now and again.

This is why is figure that doing it at work will make it seem a lot less stressful.

As for the carb-refeeds, that too is something new and I'm experimenting with these things to see what works for me. What I might end up doing is dropping the refeeds and just going to IF so that I can lean out. Not sure what some other Paleo friends might think. Many of them have been doing this a lot longer than I have and have the experience to guide me in the right direction

I can relate to eating out of boredom, craving and bingeing but only when I was not ketogenic. Have you tried increasing fat and reducing carbs? Not everyone "must" go low carb, but difficulty with controlling appetite can very much be helped with a ketogenic lifestyle. Based on what you are saying, I really am of the opinion that your carb re-feed (or maybe your overall carb intake is too high) may be preventing your body from providing accurate hunger signals. It is my experience that craving and boredom eating are often physiological rather than psychological. So, no amount of "willpower" will correct the problem, but keeping busy would certainly help. I'm on day 10 of a Whole30 and I can barely sit still. All kinds of procrastinated household chores are getting done!

As per fasting and women: the every day IF 18/6 works great for me but I agree that other methods, such as 5:2 probably would not. I am not miserable at all from not eating until 12:30pm but if I were I would consider modifying my method. Anything that is healthy should make us feel GREAT, at least after the initial adjustment period.

Edit: I didn't realize your diary is open. Your diet looks pretty good. Personally, I think your fat macro is a little low but I see that you do go over so that is good. Your carbs are not excessively high, so perhaps your eating is just habit after all; though if I don't limit my carbs to 5% I will start struggling with hunger once again. Some people have varying levels of metabolic disorder; mine is severe.

ShannonKirton

My carb intake on any given day is usually below 50g so I'm already doing low carb. My reason for trying the carb refeeds once a week was simply to try and lean out a bit and re-fuel after my hardest workout. I will try this for a month or so to see what results I'm getting and then decide whether or not to continue after that.

What exactly is the 18/6 ratio (hours on and off)??

Akimajuktuq

My carb intake on any given day is usually below 50g so I'm already doing low carb. My reason for trying the carb refeeds once a week was simply to try and lean out a bit and re-fuel after my hardest workout. I will try this for a month or so to see what results I'm getting and then decide whether or not to continue after that.

What exactly is the 18/6 ratio (hours on and off)??

Yes, I finally checked your diary. Most people keep them closed so I often don't even check. Your carbs are low, but speaking for myself, I must be max 5%. At least for another year maybe. You are likely at a good level for you.

18 hours of not eating with a 6 hour eating window (I usually have two big meals). On weekends, it can vary to as much as 22 hours fasting and 2 hour eating window. However, note that I have BP coffee in the mornings. There are varying opinions whether that ruins my fast; however, based on the benefits that I get from what I'm doing, I will assert that the coffee does not ruin my fast.

ShannonKirton

Thanks for the info. At the moment, the <50g of carbs seems to be working for me slowly. As I am provided lunch at work (which is not normal for most) I have a hard time getting my carbs below that due to the veggies they serve at lunch (cabbage, carrots, brocolli etc) which are all medium carb veggies in comparison to things like christophine and cucumber etc. If you look back in my diary, you'll see that my lunch menu hardly changes.

I'll keep on my track for another few months, and if I stall and am not happy with the way things are, I might very well throw in IF to mix things up and see if it makes me feel better.

And hey, different things work for different people

EricCowperthwaite

The male physique, based on what I read, takes to IF really, really ****ing well.

I believe you should take this in to consideration. SOME women can IF and some cannot. Pretty much all men can. And if you think about survival adaptations and evolution of humans, that makes a lot of sense.

Men went out and hunted the wooly mammoth and bison and so forth. When they were hunting, they likely went without food for very long stretches of time and yet had to be able to physically perform at very high levels even so. If you couldn't do that, you tended not to be a successful hunter. And that meant you weren't likely to survive or have a mate and be able to pass your poor (from the paleolithic perspective) genetics on to the rest of the race.

Women, on the other hand, were doing the gathering, cooking the hunting kills, and tending to the kids. They would be able, generally, to eat on a more frequent schedule. And, likely, would benefit from that more frequent eating schedule as they did that sort of work. Plus, a woman who wasn't very good at those things due to poor genetics about food, energy, etc. would have the same problem as the guy. Going to die early and probably not be successful with a mate and thus not pass on the poor genetics.

So, it makes sense today that men would be much more adapted to, and able to benefit from, IF and many women would not. The fact that we think eating 3 times a day is the normal way to do it probably is because we no longer hunt. When we moved to an agrarian culture, men were much closer to home and could come in from the heavy work they were doing in the fields or construction and get a meal every few hours.

Just me trying a logical thought experiment about how this was likely to work and why men and women would be quite a bit different on Intermittent Fasting. And I see it in real life. I can easily go without solid food for 18 hours, and then when I do eat, I can also very easily consume 1500 calories very quickly. My wife, on the other hand, has major blood sugar drops after not eating for several hours. She also doesn't eat all that much at a single meal, between 3-400 calories, at most. And she actually finds my large meals somewhat unappetizing to see me eat them.

ShannonKirton

Eric, I've read all you just mentioned and more on MDA. I'm not sure if it's ideal, but then there's another part of me saying "give it a go". I think that the most I would be able to get done is from dinner the night before, until lunch the next day. 24 hours is way too long for me and I might end up in jail. I KNOW that I get cranky when I'm hungry!

Seeing as no calorie liquids can be consumed without too much fuss, I would be able to have a cup of coffee or tea before I leave for work. And if I take nothing to work with me besides a bottle of water then I should be fine. Mainly due to the fact that I have no vending machines here, no fridge etc.

I guess my next question is, does this interrupt my carb refeed? Should I do it the morning after my feed or on another day completely? Or, must I give up the feeds altogether? Ideas.....?

Akimajuktuq

The male physique, based on what I read, takes to IF really, really ****ing well.

I believe you should take this in to consideration. SOME women can IF and some cannot. Pretty much all men can. And if you think about survival adaptations and evolution of humans, that makes a lot of sense.

Men went out and hunted the wooly mammoth and bison and so forth. When they were hunting, they likely went without food for very long stretches of time and yet had to be able to physically perform at very high levels even so. If you couldn't do that, you tended not to be a successful hunter. And that meant you weren't likely to survive or have a mate and be able to pass your poor (from the paleolithic perspective) genetics on to the rest of the race.

Women, on the other hand, were doing the gathering, cooking the hunting kills, and tending to the kids. They would be able, generally, to eat on a more frequent schedule. And, likely, would benefit from that more frequent eating schedule as they did that sort of work. Plus, a woman who wasn't very good at those things due to poor genetics about food, energy, etc. would have the same problem as the guy. Going to die early and probably not be successful with a mate and thus not pass on the poor genetics.

So, it makes sense today that men would be much more adapted to, and able to benefit from, IF and many women would not. The fact that we think eating 3 times a day is the normal way to do it probably is because we no longer hunt. When we moved to an agrarian culture, men were much closer to home and could come in from the heavy work they were doing in the fields or construction and get a meal every few hours.

Just me trying a logical thought experiment about how this was likely to work and why men and women would be quite a bit different on Intermittent Fasting. And I see it in real life. I can easily go without solid food for 18 hours, and then when I do eat, I can also very easily consume 1500 calories very quickly. My wife, on the other hand, has major blood sugar drops after not eating for several hours. She also doesn't eat all that much at a single meal, between 3-400 calories, at most. And she actually finds my large meals somewhat unappetizing to see me eat them.

I enjoyed this well thought out response. I also think that culture may play a role in whether one is designed to fast. My ancestors are mostly northern European and a bit of Native Canadian. Both of these cultures had times of feast and famine. Some cultures in the tropics likely had more reliable access to food.

I am a woman that can IF very well and I suspect being ketogenic also helps with that. However, I have seen personal experiences from some women that cannot fast, for whatever reason. I also do well with huge meals. Frequent, small meals just make me hungry all the time. My rule is this: if after a few days of fasting one does not feel super healthy and energized and instead feels like crap then STOP.

MalinLondon

IF works really well for me, I fast for 16-18h 4-5 days per week by skipping breakfast. Perhaps this is more "meal skipping" rather than fasting but still works for me. I also do a 24h fast few times per month. It is a great way to lean out as your body will use stored fat for energy when eating primal (this did not work as well for me when not eating primal). I don't feel grumpy or low energy when on 24h fast, I actually feel more awake and alert these days and I have no issue working out on empty stomach.
I can see how this is not suitable for everyone, especially women but I definitely recommend it!! I am interested to know how you get on!

ShannonKirton

Thanks MalinLondon I've been reading that many women have success and many women who don't. When I decide to give it a go I will report back and let you all know how it went. As mentioned before, I'll likely start by fasting from dinner the previous night, to lunch the next day and see how that goes first, then depending on those results I might try a 24 hour fast

deanna198888

I have been IF for a couple of months and love it. In the beginning it wasn't easy to get used to but at this point I am getting to where I really only want one meal a day. I do drink coffee in the morning and water with ACV and I think that helps with controlling hunger. I have not experienced any negative side effects, my cycle is regular and I am still ovulating as normal. The best part of IF is that it has regulated my blood sugar, I used to spike and then crash constantly. Besides the health benefits I have received from IF I love that its easy and I don't have to cook myself anything in the morning or afternoon. I have an infant so its a lot easier when I can devout all my time to him and other things I need to get done.

homesweeths

I accidentally fasted 24+ hours yesterday -- meant to eat lunch but was on the go all day so didn't get to sit down until dinner. Hadn't eaten since dinner the night before. Didn't bother me. Never got the shakes (as I used to). This paleo/primal thing seems to have balanced my blood sugars.