need some advice/help
Kerschel
Posts: 36 Member
Hi all: I've been ketoing pretty solid for 2 months (ie. a couple days on the road, I had to cave a bit, but right back on), and I've only lost 5 lbs (probably mostly water weight). I am keeping my carbs really low @ around 20-25 grams, I'm eating good fats only, I do a bullet proof coffee in order to get my MCTs in the am, otherwise intermittent fasting from about 7pm until 1 or 2 next day. What am I doing wrong? Oh, and my blood ketones peak at about 2 in the pm at about 1.7--the rest of the time they are low, less than 1. Can you help me please? I want this WOE to work for me as it's my last chance and I believe in the health benefits. But I must lose the weight as I have severe back pain.
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Calories really matter...maybe you are eating too many of them in general, even if you aren't over your carb macro.1
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I stay at about 13000
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my lunch is generally tuna salad with mayo and for dinner last night I had a chicken breast and large coleslaw made by me. A snack would be one handful of nuts (about 12). Or I might have a boiled egg or a ham stick or a piece of cheese if I'm hungry during the afternoon, but only 1 of these.0
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Can you open your food diary?0
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I wonder if you're getting too much protein and not enough fat. Tuna and chicken are high in protein but not high in fat.
I've been keto since January 2017 and when I was eating 1300 calories I was in a weight loss stall, I started to lose hair and energy too. I ate at minimum 1500-1800 calories, 20 total carbs, 52-83 grams of protein and 120-160 grams of fat. If I wasn't doing a hard hitting work out then I kept my macros to the lower side of this and if I was doing a heavy lifting routine I'd do the higher side of this.
My best suggestion is to lower your proteins and increase your fats.4 -
I completely disagree about adding more fat. My first thought was to quit with the bulletproof coffee. If you’re looking to mobilize fat from storage it’s helpful to not eat so much so that your body has a reason to do that.
Eating more protein is incredibly less likely to prevent your body from minimizing fat from storage.
Fat is your energy source. Not protein. Create an energy shortage and storage will be utilized.6 -
okay. so thinking through this great advice, I do the bullet proof to get the MCT (I cannot eat coconut oil :-( makes me gag). But I can quit that Keto coffee. Doesn't too much protein generate glucose?1
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I'll let you know if either work for me. Thanks tons.0
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okay. so thinking through this great advice, I do the bullet proof to get the MCT (I cannot eat coconut oil :-( makes me gag). But I can quit that Keto coffee. Doesn't too much protein generate glucose?
Gluconeogenesis is mainly demand driven. The liver will not make extra glucose unless it's needed.
High levels of protein will boost glucose a small amount, but we're talking well in excess of 200g of protein before that happens. Not many people get that high, and even then it is only a problem for those who need high ketones for medical reasons.
If you like BPC, you can always cut back on the MCT oil a bit. I think the true BPC recipe calls for a few tablespoons of fats. You can cut that down to a teaspoon to save calories. Or truly fast by consuming no calories in your coffee. Or add protein powder to your coffee to truly make a meal of it.
Don't worry too much about ketone levels. They just reflect how much fat you eat and how few carbs. It does not reflect weight loss at all. Eating MCT oil will raise ketones if you want ketones for health reasons. It's pretty typical to have lower ketones first thing in the morning and have it rise throughout the day.
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okay. so thinking through this great advice, I do the bullet proof to get the MCT (I cannot eat coconut oil :-( makes me gag). But I can quit that Keto coffee. Doesn't too much protein generate glucose?
short answer: no, it maintains muscle and lean tissue and is better for you than adding MCT oil to anything. Have natural fats such as those in meats, fish, eggs and avocados to name but a few. Use proper butter and good quality oils like olive. Use proper cream in your coffee if you want it but not a gallon of it! Drink plenty of water as well to keep your fluids up. Oh and actually for now, weigh all carbs and double check those as I actually suspect you might be going over those without realising it. Good luck!3 -
I have never checked ketones, but I check blood glucose. My protein goal for the day right now is 150 g, and I try to exceed that. I have not found that for me a meal with 70 g of protein has any more or less impact on blood glucose than a meal with 20 g of protein. I am with @Sunny_Bunny_ on the fats. That is where I create the deficit. I keep carbs under 20.
When I first started keto in 2016, I would have chicken breast for lunch and find myself hungry by 4. I found that a tablespoon of mayo or a couple of cheese sticks with that would give me a little fat with the protein and manage the hungries. I do add 2 tablespoons of HWC to my first cup of coffee in the morning because I like it and it fits with my macros. I have never done MCT oil.
My goals in all this have been weight loss and controlling blood glucose. I am T2D. I have lost 134 lbs and my last A1C was 5.6 with no meds for 6 months. Just where my ketones are is a mystery because I don't check. I have gotten feedback from the glucometer, the scale, the measuring tape and the sense of wellbeing.
I did not experience the rapid loss of water weight when I started - probably because I was on a BP med that had a diuretic. It was more or less a pound a week lost with some long (like 6-week) plateaus. Once the plateau broke, I would see 2 pounds a week on the scales until I "caught up."4 -
Also, take measurements. First thing in the morning is best, after using the restroom, but before eating or drinking anything - this should give you your most stable measurements. I have seen dramatic changes in size even when only a few pounds showed up (or sometimes none) on the scale. I do chest, 2" (about 3 fingers) above the belly button, belly button, 2" below the belly button, and hips. My chest measurement tends to fluctuate wildly based on water retention, but the rest of the torso is pretty consistent, and it's nice to see positive metrics even when that witch of a scale is not cooperating.3
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Obviously, even thus far in the thread, experiences and opinions differ. If you read enough about keto (or any diet) you will find that expert opinions vary and all can provide significant research to substantiate their expert opinions. Find your own N=1 though certainly asking questions is beneficial so I'm not knocking your request for insight.
My N=1 is this: calorie deficit for weight loss. Macro balance/selection for satiety, adherence to calorie deficit, fitness and health goals.
My weight/fat loss (60+pounds) happened without "stalls/plateaus" over 53 weeks via a calorie deficit (MFP established) that happened to be low carb since I eliminated/severely restricted the foods I tended to overeat (cookie, cake, candy, ice cream, Fritos, Doritos, Cheetos, etc).
Later in maintenance I trialed keto of <20 carbs (and low protein) for reason other than weight/fat loss. I successfully continued to maintain on well establish maintenance calories. No weight loss, no fat loss, etc. All my weight and fat loss occurred previously with a deficit.
The benefit for me for that 52 week trial was satiety. I was no longer hungry all the time like I was eating higher carbs and lower fat. For that reason, I have remained LCHF (compared to MFP default macro percentages) with no emphasis on ketotsis. Ketosis does not cause weight loss to my knowledge. There ARE overweight Epileptics who eat a highly ketogenic diet. Ketogenic diets are well documented to provide hunger/craving suppression for many people and that has been my experience. Satiety alone make compliance to calories much easier (IMO).
I highly favor low carb and/or ketogenic diets though it may not always appear to be the case
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okay. so thinking through this great advice, I do the bullet proof to get the MCT (I cannot eat coconut oil :-( makes me gag). But I can quit that Keto coffee. Doesn't too much protein generate glucose?
What are wanting the MCT to do for you?
And as mentioned already, you don’t need to fear protein turning into glucose. That only happens on an as needed basis. Not a supply driven one.1 -
I agree w Sunny_Bunny on this one.
I wouldn't worry about upping the protein as our body needs it plus it helps you to feel full longer. I tested lower protein and higher fat for one month and lost 7.9 pound of lean mass quickly. That isn't a good thing at all for my build. I upped my protein to 40% and lowered the fat down to 55% while maintaining 5% carbs. I test my blood sugar levels regularly and my readings are exactly the same as before. Keto blood readings are the same. The focus on this needs to be the Carbs.2 -
yes, I'm focussing on the carbs. for sure. I stay within 20-25, but because my weight loss is so very very slow (6 lbs in 2 months) compared to what others are reporting, I was wondering if it was a fat or protein issue. My calories per day are @ 1350. Perhaps I need to lower my calorie intake. If so, your advice is that I lower my fat intake? I do not have a problem with hunger or snacking. Wine is my most challenging temptation :-)0
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I was taking the MCT oil to improve my brain function and to accelerate ketosis. I have issues with foggy brain and I work in an intellectually driven job (higher ed). I also have a lot of pain from back issues/nerve issues, so MCT was recommended for that.0
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Thanks again everybody. It is good to read your different takes on what is involved in keeping the body machine working well.0
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yes, I'm focussing on the carbs. for sure. I stay within 20-25, but because my weight loss is so very very slow (6 lbs in 2 months) compared to what others are reporting, I was wondering if it was a fat or protein issue. My calories per day are @ 1350. Perhaps I need to lower my calorie intake. If so, your advice is that I lower my fat intake? I do not have a problem with hunger or snacking. Wine is my most challenging temptation :-)
I think it could be a too high fat and too low protein issue, try increasing the protein and reducing the fat, don't reduce calories, you aren't having that many anyhow but you are feeding fat into your body so it's not having to use your body fat for fuel. good luck by the way!3 -
You might want to stay away from lowering calories any further as that may not be the answer. There is nothing wrong with 6 pounds in 2 months. That is great progress and you should look at it as a great success especially if it is fat loss vs lean mass loss. How does your clothing feel? Is it loose compared to the month before? That is a better guide as you could be replacing the fat with muscle mass which isn't a bad thing.
I use Fit3D scanners to monitor my true progress. The generic scales are useless outside of a top level view. I dropped roughly 10 pounds in my time on Keto but 7.9 pounds of it was lean mass loss: Not good! I was barely losing fat using the Keto macro calculators suggestion of 10% Carb/70% fat/20% protein. Simply put, I was taking in too much fat that my body didn't need to use my reserves while I was losing my lean mass since I was starving my muscles of protein. A regular scale would have never revealed this.
I upped my protein and reset my macros to 5%/55%/40% and the generic scale went up slightly in the number but my clothing is now super loose just two weeks after reseting my macros and I can visually see the muscles in my arm defining quickly which lets me know there is nothing to worry about with the pound or two increase. Recovery from lifting/power yoga is also super quick compared to last month.
Try tweaking your macros. It's a bit of a moving target until you find the sweet spot for your specific body needs. No macro calculator can get you to the exact spot.1 -
When you say tuna, does that mean fresh tuna ot tinned tuna. If tinned you need the oily tuna not the tuna i water, if fresh tuna you alright. Chicken beast it's very fatty you are better of with chicken thighs which if lot more fatty.
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thanks Qweck. I see what you mean. My clothes are looser for sure. And I will do the tweaking you suggest. Nothing wrong with 6 pounds in two months, but people on here are seeing much more massive losses quickly, so i was getting discouraged. I'm seeing a change, though, and that is important. It could also be my meds. :-(0
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Those people were likely losing major amount of water weight as they purged out the glucose from their body. If you were semi-low carb to start or a smaller body frame you would never see that kind of drop and that isn't a bad thing as it just means you were more prepared for this than they were. The folks consuming 250-300 carbs a day and with lots of weight are the ones that see that kind of "fake" water loss. You are doing great. Just stay with it.1
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julepige. I use canned tuna, water packed for lunch, with celery, green onion and mayo. Mayo puts fat back. I eat a whole can and that is it. Lunch.0
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When you say tuna, does that mean fresh tuna ot tinned tuna. If tinned you need the oily tuna not the tuna i water, if fresh tuna you alright. Chicken beast it's very fatty you are better of with chicken thighs which if lot more fatty.
I never really thought about it since I was told all fat is bad and stopped using tuna packed in oil. What is the oil made up of? Is it the oil from the fish, vegetable, olive?0 -
When you say tuna, does that mean fresh tuna ot tinned tuna. If tinned you need the oily tuna not the tuna i water, if fresh tuna you alright. Chicken beast it's very fatty you are better of with chicken thighs which if lot more fatty.
I never really thought about it since I was told all fat is bad and stopped using tuna packed in oil. What is the oil made up of? Is it the oil from the fish, vegetable, olive?
It depends on what brand you get. Most available in regular grocery stores are packed in nasty vegetable oils. There are now brands available packed in olive oil, but they are a bit harder to find in the regular store but I'm pretty sure Trader Joe's and Whole Foods offers the good stuff 0 -
Thanks, I will check it out.0
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If you can get the tuna in oliver oil you will be fine and means you wont need the mayo . You can also get mackerel tin which is in oil or water and 0 sugar. I normally get one tin and mix 30 ml of creme fraiche (1g carb)with it in a mixer and use it as a snack with mix veg.and the best thing about mackerel being in a tin is the bone you might fine wont hurt you they just go away when you mix the mackerel in a mixer.0
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