Slow Carb/Macro decrease to Keto?

chelletackett

So I have been really interested in doing Keto for a little while now. I did Whole30 last year, and good golly, if Keto flu is anything like that "detox" period, holy moly, I'll pass.

What I haven't read about, or know if anyone has tried, is slowly decreasing my carb macros from 50-60% (my daily average) and slowly getting down to the 5-10% Keto range. This is my first week, I've cut the macros from 50-60% to 30% this week, keeping my protein the same at 30% and upping my fat to 40%.

My thought process is that the slow decrease (and I'm thinking 10% decreases at a time) will help me adjust to a lower carb lifestyle over all, and perhaps help me to avoid the dreaded keto flu.

Has anyone tried this in the past? I'm looking for thoughts and ideas, because I still want to enjoy the carbs of the holidays (hello stuffing!) but want to overall reduce what I'm taking in.

Thanks in advance!

Chelle

sykin

I've not personally tried it, but the logic makes sense that slowly decreasing should help with some of the keto flu symptoms. How would you step down your carb intake? Once a week? Once every other week? I'm curious what you're thinking.

nvmomketo

Keto flu is simply low electrolytes. You'll lose water and sodium when you cut carbs from lost glycogen and lower insulin levels. If you replace sodium with at least 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day (2300 mg sodium = 1 tsp salt) then you can skip the keto flu.

If you lower carbs slowly, just increase sodium slowly. I you cut carbs quickly to below 10-15% or so, you may need more sodium, like 1/2 tsp of salt with a chaser of water twice a day.

zanyterp

i went cold turkey down to 5% (from the same 50-60%) and didn't get keto flu. but, as with all things diet, each person is different. as @nvmomketo (on this thread) & @Sunny_Bunny_ (on some other threads) have pointed out, increase your sodium intake as your carbs decrease. i think the amount of salt i use on my food helped me avoid keto flu (though now, two months in, i am finding that 2 or 3 salt & water chasers throughout the day helps reduce how tired i am through the day).

as for your other concern, regarding enjoying foods that are out only during the holidays, enjoy them since you get them only a few times a year (?). i can't say from experience with keto myself, but taking time to enjoy the food and not stress over one or two days of focusing on portion control rather than worrying about carbs/fat/protein, solely, should be fine _and_ will help in long-term maintenance. (or, as i plan on doing, just enjoy the food and company and get back on track after the long weekend). Unless, of course, there are medical issues that require paying attention to the macros at all times; then, do that.

teresamwhite

I did a slow progression from the Standard American Diet to a ketogenic one. Every two weeks I would make another change or adjustment. I feel like it helped me see improvement on a regular basis, really take my time to learn about each adjustment, observe how my body reacts, and make those adjustments into habits that are more sustainable. Going cold turkey isn't how I am wired -I'm in awe of people who have that kind of strength and will power!

Currently, the hubby is also taking baby steps, starting this past Sunday. He is going to avoid products made with flour for the next two weeks (breads, baked goods, pasta), but continue on his usual food choices. In two weeks, he will choose something to add, like increasing his water intake or getting an extra serving of veggies, etc. The next step will be to eliminate another simple carb, probably potatoes...etc, etc, etc...until he has hit upon the right combination of food and exercise that works for him.

I probably haven't lost weight as dramatically as others have, and it probably took me much longer to get into ketosis, but after three months I have still lost 25lbs, and I feel really good. In the end, it's no one else's journey but your own, so you have to walk it in a way that makes sense to you.

zanyterp

👍 what she (@teresamwhite) said (apologies for not being as succinct)

lowcarbmale

The best way (for me) to get into ketosis is to try to burn the stored carbs in your liver and all muscles instead of slowly dieting your way into it. I usually do it by working out 3 times in a row (morning, evening, next morning) and obviously also avoid carbs during that time. The next day I would have my first meal at around lunchtime and would already be in ketosis. The reason why I like this way is that it's really quick and you won't have to deal with hunger for very long. To avoid "keto flu" I recommend to take enough salt (the red one that is not purified) and potassium (for instance a nice cold spinach shake).

I am doing this right now. Will be in ketosis tomorrow after the morning workout

gwendyprism

chelletackett wrote: »

So I have been really interested in doing Keto for a little while now. I did Whole30 last year, and good golly, if Keto flu is anything like that "detox" period, holy moly, I'll pass.

What I haven't read about, or know if anyone has tried, is slowly decreasing my carb macros from 50-60% (my daily average) and slowly getting down to the 5-10% Keto range. This is my first week, I've cut the macros from 50-60% to 30% this week, keeping my protein the same at 30% and upping my fat to 40%.

My thought process is that the slow decrease (and I'm thinking 10% decreases at a time) will help me adjust to a lower carb lifestyle over all, and perhaps help me to avoid the dreaded keto flu.

Has anyone tried this in the past? I'm looking for thoughts and ideas, because I still want to enjoy the carbs of the holidays (hello stuffing!) but want to overall reduce what I'm taking in.

Thanks in advance!

Chelle

The week before I started Keto, I stopped eating sweets and sugar. I didn't have any Keto flu symptoms.

kpk54

nvmomketo wrote: »

Keto flu is simply low electrolytes. You'll lose water and sodium when you cut carbs from lost glycogen and lower insulin levels. If you replace sodium with at least 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day (2300 mg sodium = 1 tsp salt) then you can skip the keto flu.

If you lower carbs slowly, just increase sodium slowly. I you cut carbs quickly to below 10-15% or so, you may need more sodium, like 1/2 tsp of salt with a chaser of water twice a day.

This would be my suggestion also based on personal experience and my n=1 is this:

I have been low carb for 5 years. 1 of those years was strict keto as a trial for something other than weight/fat loss. During that keto year I definitely needed to keep my sodium up or would begin to experience slight signs of keto flu (nausea or lethargy for me). A good hit of salt would remedy any ill signs.

The other 4 years (especially is last year) I have flexed with carbs while still remaining low carb of under 100. If I happen to string 2 or 3 days together of very low carb, the beginnings of keto flu symptoms will return... ETA if I don't address sodium needs.

I think we're all a bit different in regards to the amount of sodium needed to keep keto flu at bay I know that my weight loss year I averaged 128 total carbs per day AND felt fine with that though eating a physician suggested LOW sodium diet due to being on meds at that time for high blood pressure.

TLDR reducing carbs slowly is an option though you will likely need to increase sodium. Know the symptoms. Pay attention. Keto flu is totally avoidable for most people.

lowcarbmale

kpk54 wrote: »

nvmomketo wrote: »

Keto flu is simply low electrolytes. You'll lose water and sodium when you cut carbs from lost glycogen and lower insulin levels. If you replace sodium with at least 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day (2300 mg sodium = 1 tsp salt) then you can skip the keto flu.

If you lower carbs slowly, just increase sodium slowly. I you cut carbs quickly to below 10-15% or so, you may need more sodium, like 1/2 tsp of salt with a chaser of water twice a day.

This would be my suggestion also based on personal experience and my n=1 is this:

I have been low carb for 5 years. 1 of those years was strict keto as a trial for something other than weight/fat loss. During that keto year I definitely needed to keep my sodium up or would begin to experience slight signs of keto flu (nausea or lethargy for me). A good hit of salt would remedy any ill signs.

The other 4 years (especially is last year) I have flexed with carbs while still remaining low carb of under 100. If I happen to string 2 or 3 days together of very low carb, the beginnings of keto flu symptoms will return... ETA if I don't address sodium needs.

I think we're all a bit different in regards to the amount of sodium needed to keep keto flu at bay I know that my weight loss year I averaged 128 total carbs per day AND felt fine with that though eating a physician suggested LOW sodium diet due to being on meds at that time for high blood pressure.

TLDR reducing carbs slowly is an option though you will likely need to increase sodium. Know the symptoms. Pay attention. Keto flu is totally avoidable for most people.

How do you get into ketosis with 128 grams of carbs or is that with keto phases (way lower) and normal phases (way above)? It seems like most people can't really do more than 30 grams of total carbs to stay in ketosis. Most people need to go even lower.

kpk54

Hmmm...I averaged 128 carbs/day years 1 and 2. 1st year losing 63 pounds, 2nd year keeping it off. I had no inkling at that time there was anything called a ketogenic diet. I'm quite confident I was not in ketosis eating 128 grams of carbs.

It was during year 3, I Iearned of ketogenic diets for neurological disorders and decided to give keto a trial for my neurological movement disorder. It was when eating ketogenic of <20 grams of carbs that I needed to regularly supplement with sodium to not experience symptoms of keto flu. Fortunately there were experienced folks in the forums who kept emphasizing the need to increase sodium if eating ketogenic. It works.

Since then (years 4 and 5) I remain low carb/high fat with no emphasis on ketosis. It is because I've flexed on my carbs these 2 years I continue to acknowledge and experience that if I eat extremely low carb (say less than 50) for a couple of days in a row and don't address increased sodium needs, keto flu symptoms will begin to return. The longer I keep my carbs extremely low (keto levels) the more I need to supplement with sodium.

All in all it is why I concur with @nvmomketo's suggestion that if you want to ease your way into keto by slowly reducing carbs you will likely want/need to increase sodium along the way. An electrolyte imbalance may well have been why you felt poorly with Whole 30. Depending on what you were eating, it may have been very low carb and you may have had an electrolyte imbalance which is what keto flu is.

chelletackett

I have definitely been eating more salt this week - I'm not much of a salt person, so the 2 teaspoons a day I've been using feels like a lot, but I know its really not. I'm tracking it on my MFP food log, and I'm in a good range. So far, no leg cramps, stomach problems or other flu like symptoms, one headache, but that will teach me not to drink caffeine when I'm accustomed to it...

@sykin This week I've cut my carbs in half - my goal is to only eat about 30% carbs (about 150-ish grams). Once I feel like that is easy and I'm fully adjusted (maybe 2 or 3 weeks? My body is a slow adjuster), then I'll drop another 10 or 15%, depending on how I think I can handle it. So far, while its been tricky, and I tend to eat my carbs first thing in the morning (and I'm thinking about changing that up to more evenly spaced in the day), I'm staying within my goal range. I never really paid attention to how many carbs/sugar was in so many of my daily foods. Blows my mind. Holy Moses.

@teresamwhite My body works very similarly. And I know if I tried to do all or nothing, it would be nothing, lol. I am horrible at going cold turkey when it comes to diets, and that's always been the way I've done it, and of course, I failed every time. Easing into it, I'm hoping I can build new healthy habits and are going to be easier to maintain in the long run. My husband (because he eats what I eat) is also slowly lowering his carb intake, although he still eats rice (while I subbed out zucchini noodles), and that kind of thing because he really doesn't have much weight to lose, and is healthy as a horse.

@zanyterp - I wish I could go cold turkey, but I know for me that's a recipe for disaster. I'll feel cheated, crappy about it and revert back. Story of my weightloss life in a nutshell.

Thank you all for your great advice! I'm definitely feeling some changes in my body this week, and I'm curious to see what Sunday's weigh in will look like. Thanks everyone!

zanyterp

@chelletackett I only did it because what I could find out about keto flu sounded like my daily life and keto/low carb is supposed to help with that. for me, it was easier to just drop down immediately, and know I would have days that I would end up eating more carbs, instead of weaning myself off. It was surprising to me, as well, to find out things that have carbs/such high carbs (such as shredded cheese). I applaud your awards of your self that you can make the changes slowly and still make it work. i don't think i would have the will power to do that.