Naiman's protein to energy ratio
nvmomketo
Posts: 12,019 Member
Ted Naiman made this protein to energy tool. His theory is that people eat too much due to protein dilution - you aren't eating protein rich foods so you keep eating more calories to meet that protein need. An interesting hypothesis that makes sense, imo.
He says to aim for 1:1 or more, as I understand it.
I know some around here want more protein and some want less. This is a neat toy to look at that even if you disagree with his hypothesis.
http://ptoer.com
Some good information in his thoughts on the P:E ratio.
http://burnfatnotsugar.com/p2e/AboutP2E.html
This is the diet he recommends to get a high protein to energy ratio.
http://burnfatnotsugar.com/diet20/light.JPG
He says to aim for 1:1 or more, as I understand it.
I know some around here want more protein and some want less. This is a neat toy to look at that even if you disagree with his hypothesis.
http://ptoer.com
Some good information in his thoughts on the P:E ratio.
http://burnfatnotsugar.com/p2e/AboutP2E.html
This is the diet he recommends to get a high protein to energy ratio.
http://burnfatnotsugar.com/diet20/light.JPG
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Replies
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Thanks for sharing, that was an interesting read!1
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My main foods all get right at 1:1, sometimes a little more. Seriously, lunch today was two steaks with three eggs. The steaks were a little leaner than ribeye, but I added some butter and the end ratio was probably close.1
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ooooh. Momma likey.
That second link breaks it down into a simple and understandable format. Thanks for sharing!1 -
I was part of a challenge to start the year where I was really trying to get my BG under control, so I ratcheted down the carbs even from the veggies. Basically, it put me at jalapeños and seasoning as my only non-carnivore foods. I was also really trying to get my omega 6 to omega 3 below 3:1, which meant lots of fish. In doing this, my protein went up, as a percentage as the small amount of carbs I was getting went down, and fish is much leaner than most meats.
Although my BG improvements have been minimal, I dropped about 7-8 lbs. I was not intending to lose weight as I started at my HS weight which I have been maintaining for most of the last few years. It didn't upset me to lose it, it just wasn't really needed.
I have been very familiar with Ted Naiman and of this tool. After these last 6 weeks or so, I would have to say he seems right in my book. I found in looking at what I logged from day to day and where the protein fell, the protein was typically in the same relatively small range regardless of calories. Although I log, it is to be able to compare with BG results and not because I am limiting food in any way. I eat until satisfied except on my weekly fast.
So, to me, this protein leverage hypothesis seems to be spot on - at least for me. When you look at the body building community, this pretty well matches what they do when they are in their cutting phase. They eat only non-starchy veggies and lean meats. They take this to an even more extreme.1 -
It does make sense. Eating more carbs seems to make leveraging protein soooooo much harder. I don't know how some higher carbers do it0
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cstehansen wrote: »I was part of a challenge to start the year where I was really trying to get my BG under control, so I ratcheted down the carbs even from the veggies. Basically, it put me at jalapeños and seasoning as my only non-carnivore foods. I was also really trying to get my omega 6 to omega 3 below 3:1, which meant lots of fish. In doing this, my protein went up, as a percentage as the small amount of carbs I was getting went down, and fish is much leaner than most meats.
Although my BG improvements have been minimal, I dropped about 7-8 lbs. I was not intending to lose weight as I started at my HS weight which I have been maintaining for most of the last few years. It didn't upset me to lose it, it just wasn't really needed.
I have been very familiar with Ted Naiman and of this tool. After these last 6 weeks or so, I would have to say he seems right in my book. I found in looking at what I logged from day to day and where the protein fell, the protein was typically in the same relatively small range regardless of calories. Although I log, it is to be able to compare with BG results and not because I am limiting food in any way. I eat until satisfied except on my weekly fast.
So, to me, this protein leverage hypothesis seems to be spot on - at least for me. When you look at the body building community, this pretty well matches what they do when they are in their cutting phase. They eat only non-starchy veggies and lean meats. They take this to an even more extreme.
I had the same experience with appetite and weight loss during this same challenge. I don’t know if you knew I was in that group also but I saw your posts and you end everyone did very well.
When I eat according to this tools suggestions I am able to lose fat. I don’t really enjoy eating that way so that’s where the problem is for me
I’m honest. I like my cheese dang it! 2 -
This is very interesting. What is perhaps most interesting to me personally, is that this is precisely what my 18 yo college (engineering) student has been theorizing about recently. He noted that when he was home over winter break he was not as hungry, and not eating as much as he did at school.
The school has notoriously bad food - many of the students lost weight - so it's not the quality of the food that is causing them to eat more. His theory is that it's because the food is not as nutritious that they eat so much - and at home they have better food, so need less.1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »I was part of a challenge to start the year where I was really trying to get my BG under control, so I ratcheted down the carbs even from the veggies. Basically, it put me at jalapeños and seasoning as my only non-carnivore foods. I was also really trying to get my omega 6 to omega 3 below 3:1, which meant lots of fish. In doing this, my protein went up, as a percentage as the small amount of carbs I was getting went down, and fish is much leaner than most meats.
Although my BG improvements have been minimal, I dropped about 7-8 lbs. I was not intending to lose weight as I started at my HS weight which I have been maintaining for most of the last few years. It didn't upset me to lose it, it just wasn't really needed.
I have been very familiar with Ted Naiman and of this tool. After these last 6 weeks or so, I would have to say he seems right in my book. I found in looking at what I logged from day to day and where the protein fell, the protein was typically in the same relatively small range regardless of calories. Although I log, it is to be able to compare with BG results and not because I am limiting food in any way. I eat until satisfied except on my weekly fast.
So, to me, this protein leverage hypothesis seems to be spot on - at least for me. When you look at the body building community, this pretty well matches what they do when they are in their cutting phase. They eat only non-starchy veggies and lean meats. They take this to an even more extreme.
I had the same experience with appetite and weight loss during this same challenge. I don’t know if you knew I was in that group also but I saw your posts and you end everyone did very well.
When I eat according to this tools suggestions I am able to lose fat. I don’t really enjoy eating that way so that’s where the problem is for me I’m honest. I like my cheese dang it!
I knew you were in at least one of the same groups I am in, but wasn't sure which one(s). I joined several and then paired back substantially to the ones where I found some value.
I still have some cheese, but not as much. I found I get the best bang for the buck there with fresh parmesan. It seems like I need less of it to give it enough cheesiness - and I have always liked parmesan.
I am eating a lot more seafood now. I already ate sardines fairly regular, but I have been having more salmon, tuna, mackerel and even some anchovies that were in EVOO that I found. I am also eating a ton of eggs, which have always been one of my favorite foods. From a nutrient standpoint, they are also great.
The funny part is I couldn't see a difference despite now being down nearly 10 lbs, but my BG is finally starting to trend down more. This makes me wonder if the fat loss is all around my liver and pancreas. Maybe I was skinny fat. Never had a dexascan because of cost. Assumed my liver was ok because ALT, AST and GGT are all very good - not just normal, but optimal or near optimal. However, if there was just that beginning of fatty liver and that is where the fat loss was, it would explain the drop in BG that has followed the weight loss. Still early, so I will hold off until I can see if the trend holds longer term.1 -
Tim Noakes was diagnosed with DM2 without ever being overweight, and he was a marathon runner. He mentioned that he had measurements of his fasting insulin going way back. 29 years old. BMI 20-21. Fasting insulin 5-8X normal.
Cases like that are very interesting. Not likely to be fatty liver -- something else triggering insulin resistance? Noakes has obviously had success with LC.
Keep us updated on your progress.0 -
@cstehansen I agree about Parmesan. Seems to be a lot more flavor compared to volume eaten. I definitely prefer it over anything else.
Interesting thoughts about the potential fatty liver. I suppose based on the theory of personal fat threshold, that someone could have some liver fat triggering IR that might not even warrant an official diagnosis. Could be the case for you.0 -
I have been studying Dr. Kraft's life work this weekend and have his book covering it on the way. It seems we have often taken years of damage before FBG or A1C reflects we are diabetic. It seems prediabetic is truly just plain old Type 2 Diabetes.
https://idmprogram.com/understanding-joseph-kraft-diabetes-in-situ-t2d-24/
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GaleHawkins wrote: »I have been studying Dr. Kraft's life work this weekend and have his book covering it on the way. It seems we have often taken years of damage before FBG or A1C reflects we are diabetic. It seems prediabetic is truly just plain old Type 2 Diabetes.
https://idmprogram.com/understanding-joseph-kraft-diabetes-in-situ-t2d-24/
Indeed1 -
Tim Noakes was diagnosed with DM2 without ever being overweight, and he was a marathon runner. He mentioned that he had measurements of his fasting insulin going way back. 29 years old. BMI 20-21. Fasting insulin 5-8X normal.
Cases like that are very interesting. Not likely to be fatty liver -- something else triggering insulin resistance? Noakes has obviously had success with LC.
Keep us updated on your progress.
Dr. Peter Attia had a similar issue/experience. He was a triathlete, but gained abdominal weight (a sign of insulin resistance).4 -
I am going to say this seems to be continuing to work for me. I have managed to hold weight pretty steady between 179.1 and 182.6 but BG continues to trend down. It is highly erratic which made it hard to tell just looking at the daily numbers, but when I looked at the graph of my 7 day average, it still shows the significant volatility, but the down trend is much more evident. Over the last 3+ years, I have done numerous experiments going ridiculous high on fat because there was all the talk about too much protein causing BG to rise through gluconeogenesis, but, at least for me, that does not seem to be the case as I am at my highest protein intake yet and BG is trending down. And when I say high, I mean high. I nearly always get over 250 g per day and more than half the time get over 300 g. In the context of eating 3500 calories a day, it is still averaging out to 30-35%. With carbs being at 3%, I am still getting the bulk of my calories from fat, but it is not added fat. It is just the fat that comes along with the meat, eggs, cheese, etc.
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@cstehansen WOW you weigh 180 and can eat 3500 calories a day......YOUR MY NEW HERO!!!!! 180 is my goal weight. If i can eat anywhere near 3500 calories a day when i get there that would be awesome.
congrats2 -
This is interesting to see. I went to check my macros, and my goals are 5% C, 60% F, and 35% P. This has me at 1.1 for the ratio. I try to be over on the protein and under on the fat and carbs, so the ratio is actually higher as a rule. Yesterday it was almost 2.1.
I am T2D, and I manage my BG with diet. I have not found that higher protein seems to have any negative impact on BG, despite all the warnings.3 -
So, I've decided to experiment with elminating dairy for a bit. I'm not a milk drinker but I can double down on the cheese like nobody's business. Looking to jump start the next phase of my weight loss and I'm thinking focusing more on the lean proteins might help.1
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@cstehansen WOW you weigh 180 and can eat 3500 calories a day......YOUR MY NEW HERO!!!!! 180 is my goal weight. If i can eat anywhere near 3500 calories a day when i get there that would be awesome.
congrats
I should clarify that this is 3500 a day 5 days a week because I fast on Wednesdays getting 0 that day with just water and electrolytes and then get 4000-4200 on Thursdays. So my 7 day average is closer to 3100.
Had I been born 10-20 years later, I am sure my teachers would have begged to have me put on ADHD meds as I don't sit still well. I look for excuses to get up and move as much as possible. I know it is not all about exercise, but, in my case, I think I would waste away to nothing eating as little as I hear people talking about here.0 -
This is interesting to see. I went to check my macros, and my goals are 5% C, 60% F, and 35% P. This has me at 1.1 for the ratio. I try to be over on the protein and under on the fat and carbs, so the ratio is actually higher as a rule. Yesterday it was almost 2.1.
I am T2D, and I manage my BG with diet. I have not found that higher protein seems to have any negative impact on BG, despite all the warnings.
That is about where I have mine set now. It was a change because I kept hearing my lack of progress must be because of too much protein. I really think that because of how active I am and always have been, it was the lack of protein causing an issue. I updated my graph to show the 14 day and 30 day average FBG along with trend line for 30 day. To do this, I had to back fill more data to the beginning of November. Through the last couple months of the year, all three bounced around mostly between 113 and 123. All were at or near 115 on January 1. As of this morning my 7 day is down to 102.6, 14 day is at 106.9 and 30 day is 109.0. The down trend is quite evident now. I am sold that I needed the additional protein.
What I had been doing got me from T2 to pre-diabetic, but that A1c was just stuck at 5.9-6.1 for the last couple of years. Assuming these results continue, I should finally be below pre-diabetic soon.
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