Real Skinny On Fat thread spin off.

GaleHawkins

One of the things I learned about over the weekend of watching Real Skinny on Fats was the Fasting Mimicking Diet which I implemented Monday. Rather than make tracks in that tread I have started this one.

Having been Keto since Oct 2014 the FMD was not a big leap physically or learning wise. Being a 3000 calorie day eater dropping back to a few hundred daily was a leap physically and mentally but am learning my way forward.

My take away to stimulate new stem cell generation it takes 5 days of water fasting or one can do a version of the FMD by just cutting out protein and sugars. While one can buy the 5 days kit for $300 (could be the best thing for the non keto people with money) I just started learning my way forward.

At this point besides water I have added black coffee with a little coconut oil and cinnamon, coconut chips, sauerkraut, and shirataki spaghetti since I did not want to take supplements on an empty stomach plus I really like to eat a couple times a day at least. That combo just happen to be food in the house that let me do FMD.

Ketone levels have shot up for sure and that is taking some adjustments and getting the sodium right is taking some adjusting. Dr. Valter Longo has been working at studying the diet/longevity for 30 years and while he messes with my pet thoughts my brain knows his science has been confirmed over and over and is to be looked at with an open scientific mind. His book is to be here tomorrow but I have read the first part on Amazon review and learned a lot of details in their book reviews from readers. Just by Googling Dr Valter Longo one can learn if the book would even be worth it to you but I want it for his years of research summary.

1:06 interview with Rhonda
https://youtube.com/watch?v=evGFWRXEzz8

19 minute TED talk
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dVArDzYynYc

kpk54

I've read Longo's book (The Longevity Diet) and his research and FMD is quite interesting. If I were to fast at anytime, it would be as a result of his research and that of Ron Rosedale.

It should be noted that his program (both for fasting and non fasting days) is very Mediterranean thus high in vegetables/legumes and very low protein so it may not appeal to a lot of keto carnivore folks in the forum. He has many videos on youtube. Additionally he has begun human trials (in addition to his product from which he indicates he makes no profit).

ETA: his interview with Rich Roll was very good and can be found on youtube or as a podcast.

kpk54

@GaleHawkins you might also want to look into the works of Roy Walford. He was in the forefront of calorie restriction for longevity, a member of the Biosphere crew and mentor to Longo.

GaleHawkins

Thanks so much. There was a Dr, Ford I think in the series that had been Keto for 40 years that also got me to thinking. Rhonda Patrick in a Youtube lecture talked about how based on epigenetic factors a certain food might lead to a longer healthier life for one person but do the inverse for another. Some claim about 30% of the population just cannot make Keto work regardlessly.

Clearly there is no one way of eating that will work best for health and longevity. My n=1 efforts is all that counts in my case so I will keep trying on that part.

The ability to clean the cellular juck out of cells and grow new stem cells seems to work for most everyone is my current thinking. The history of fasting is interesting to me. It is like some force put fasting in the minds of humans after it ceased to be forced on man by nature itself. Fasting in nothing more than keto. Refeeding after fasting I do not think involves stopping Keto but to eat what it takes to develop the new stem cells that are triggered by fasting in the first place. I do get the point that eating sugars and protein do by nature cause some cellular damage just as breathing causes some cell damage.

Maybe in another 4 years this will become more clear to me.

Dr. Valter Longo grew up eating a Mediterranean eating lifestyle so naturally he is not going to lean towards eating a meat and potato lifestyle. Perhaps if the processed and ultra processed food was out of the food chain we could all eat about all the same way.

Well I have 2 more days left on my first 5 day fast and it is going OK but sure does not seem natural yet. Due to my state of health at this time I am planning to do it once monthly.

GaleHawkins

I have been pegging the alcohol breath analyzer at 0.199 the last couple days when I normally blow a .03-.08 range so I dug out my blood tester. Fasting on day 4 I got a 3.2 ketone reading and 65 blood glucose reading.

Diabetes Epidemic & You 2008 by Dr. Joseph Kraft is a book that I ordered this morning with the subtitle of Should everyone be tested? Absolutely Not? Only those concerned about their future. Years ago Dr. Kraft tested about 15K patients and learned diabetic damage starts years before fasting blood glucose rises above 100 and A1C becomes greater than 5.2 so I guess those years I was over 100 but under 120 I took on some damage.

kpk54

Dr. Sachin Panda's (PhD) research on time restricted feeding may be of interest to you. I'm currently using (not for fasting purposes) his app, My Circadian Clock. I has a few glitches that make use frustrating so I might resign from using it.

You can see a lot of his interviews with Rhonda Patrick on youtube.

GaleHawkins

Thanks @kpk54. I heard Rhonda Patrick mention her Circadian Clock thoughts yesterday in an interview with my key to keto guy Peter Attia. Dr. Panda's research sounds interest.

Here are my fasting ketone and glucose numbers this morning while doing the FMD at day 5.

Ketones 2.8 and FBG 78 with my normal waking BP of 113/64 with pulse of 61.

To knock down my ketone level a bit is ate a few oz of blue berries last night and it seemed to have work.

For the first 4 days I have been basically zero carb and zero protein with some fats in my case but the below is Dr. Longe ratios for the 5 day FMD and it is not keto and is 800-1100 calories daily so it is very easy to do with the same results claimed as a 5 day water fast as far as creating new stem cell generation.

Fasting Mimicking Diet Cycle:
Day 1: Total caloric intake of 4.5 to 7 kcal/lb of body weight (10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbs)
Days 2-5: Total caloric intake of 3 to 5 kcal/lb of body weight (9% protein, 44% fat, 47% carbs)

GaleHawkins

This morning I finished the first read of The Longevity Diet and found it awesome. The first half was to lay persons and the second half to doctors because he kept saying do not try this at home. He spelled out the many diseases and the trial results with mice and humans. It was worth it just for the results of his 30 years of efforts.

I plan to the the 5 day fast then 10 days back to my normal Keto WOE and repeat for a few times. On fasting day basically cut out protein from my Keto Woe and try not go over the 800 calories that he calls for to be equal to the health results of a 5 day water fast.

In the second half he states coconut oil just fine because it contains MCT's. Again the second half was worth the $19 price to get all that research results.

https://penguin.co.uk/articles/2018/longevity-diet/ I thought this was a good review to read before buying the book as well as reading a big chuck of it from the Amazon order page.

https://perfectketo.com/fasting-mimicking-diet-and-how-to-do-it/ Another review.

KarlaYP

Thank you Gale!! Interesting perspective on this topic! Let us know how it goes for you!

GaleHawkins

@KarlaYP I never really knew about the Fasting Mimicking Diet before the Skinny On Fat series.

FMD benefits are only a fraction of benefits of Keto as I see it because at best a non fat adapted person is only going to see 2-3 days of ketosis at best per each FMD cycle. If one does 12 a year the results may or may not be on par with full time keto but I am not willing to take that chance in the case of my health. Doing it once a year or even just doing the Longevity Diet that Dr. Longo lays out should still be better than the SAD diet of the USA.

Where I see FMD shining with the most potential health wise is its possible appeal to those who can not or will not do Keto long term or even cycle in and out a few times a year.

I mean learning to live for 5 days on 800 calories a day once a year or even 12 times a year is something more people can do I expect. My guess is Keto may in time reach 0.010% usage so if FMD could reach just 1% of the population health care costs could drop perhaps.

Dr. Longo's 30 years of longevity work points to sugar and protein as the two factors that shortens the life fruit flies, mice and men. Protein wise for a 200 pound run of the mill guy under 65 years of age he calls for 70 grams daily and that jumps to 90 grams daily after the age of 65.

The 5 days that I did FMD last week eating 800 calories daily and with almost ZERO protein shot my ketone levels higher (3.2) than I ever recorded over the last 4.5 years, not that high levels give any better results.

As you may remember I went Keto cold turkey trying to avoid the cancer risks that was going to be associated with starting Enbrel injections for pain management as of Nov 2014. Because Keto started doing its thing I never started Enbrel injections but I know most will not change their WOE's to lower cancer risk. I was 63 with two 16 year old kids watching me die in front of them leading them to wonder if the same thing was the future they could expect so I had to do something if not for me at least something to give them more of a reason to be excited about their future.

Another book that is helping me get a grasp on some of the possible reasons of my health improvements is called Suggestible You, the curious science of your brain's ability to deceive, transform, and heal by Erik Vance. Finally I am starting to understand my brain's own pharmacy of very powerful drugs is very empowering. Thankfully having never used drugs or alcohol my pharmacy seems to be working well today. I was blown away that smoking marijuana makes life long changes in the brain that do not seem to reverse with time.

I am very glad I read The Longevity Diet and have Dr. Longo charts and graphs resulting from his 30 years of longevity research. Watching his interview with Rhonda Patrick helped make him more believable since I had never heard of him.

My take away FMD can be an awesome tool but for those of us doing a Keto WOE all or most all of the time that is about as good as it gets. I will repost why I am sold on the science behind nutritional ketosis below.

https://stemcellorthopedic.com/stem-cells-and-the-ketogenic-diet/

KarlaYP

I do recall your ability to prevent the need for Enbrel in the past. It’s great to see that you still don’t need it and are still looking for ways to continue improving on that!! Inspiring in many ways Gale!!