Bodyweight Training
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AbbeyDove
Posts: 317 Member
Hi all,
I'm a high school teacher, and the beginning of the academic year approaches. My time is extremely limited during the school year, and when I'm not grading or planning, I'd like to be spending my time with my son and my husband. Getting to the gym takes time, I always have to wait and wait for the squat racks, etc. I was wondering what your views were on bodyweight training. I have a book for beginners to advanced exercisers that has a very structured program. For example, there are 25 exercises that take the you from wall pushups to one-handed, full-body floor pushups, 25 exercises that work you up from sumo squats to pistol squats (a very deep, *kitten* to the grass one-legged squat, etc.). The minimalism really appeals to me, and I could get it done very early in the morning before the spouse and spawn are awake. Anyway, I'd like to be slimmer, fit and strong, but my goal isn't necessarily to look like a figure competitor.
Is it possible for bodyweight training to be as effective as weighted barbell training? Are there pitfalls that I should be aware of before stepping away from the barbells?
Here's the book: http://www.amazon.com/Body-You-Guide-Womens-Fitness/dp/0345528972
The author also has a more advanced book called "You Are Your Own Gym"
Regards, and thank you for offering your perspective.
I'm a high school teacher, and the beginning of the academic year approaches. My time is extremely limited during the school year, and when I'm not grading or planning, I'd like to be spending my time with my son and my husband. Getting to the gym takes time, I always have to wait and wait for the squat racks, etc. I was wondering what your views were on bodyweight training. I have a book for beginners to advanced exercisers that has a very structured program. For example, there are 25 exercises that take the you from wall pushups to one-handed, full-body floor pushups, 25 exercises that work you up from sumo squats to pistol squats (a very deep, *kitten* to the grass one-legged squat, etc.). The minimalism really appeals to me, and I could get it done very early in the morning before the spouse and spawn are awake. Anyway, I'd like to be slimmer, fit and strong, but my goal isn't necessarily to look like a figure competitor.
Is it possible for bodyweight training to be as effective as weighted barbell training? Are there pitfalls that I should be aware of before stepping away from the barbells?
Here's the book: http://www.amazon.com/Body-You-Guide-Womens-Fitness/dp/0345528972
The author also has a more advanced book called "You Are Your Own Gym"
Regards, and thank you for offering your perspective.
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Bump to follow...0
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I'm interested in opinions on this too. I've always been intrigued by bodyweight training but have gone down the barbell path. Wouldn't mind switching it up at some point if it didn't mean a loss of strength and if I could make steady progress.0
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The following is my opinion and it is not based on experience with bodyweight training:
If your bodyweight program allows you to train your entire body (hit all major muscle groups) in a manner that allows you keep your volume and intensity within a reasonable range for hypertrophy, and you are able to progress throughout the program (add volume/intensity over time), you should get good results.
At some point, if the load becomes too light relatively speaking, and you end up having to do sets of 100 reps in order to get your training intensity high enough, I would question the effectiveness at that point.
My belief is that it can be quite effective. I would question the effectiveness of a bodyweight program for an advanced lifter however.
And if anyone disagrees on the previous opinion, I'm all ears. I've actually done very little reading on the available programs, I'm just attempting to be logical about it.0 -
From the research I have done it seems there is still some benefit from being in a higher rep range (for hypertrophy as well as endurance - this is still a highly debated topic though), but I would agree with you SS that there comes a point where the inefficiency of some body weight movements outweigh their benefit.
As someone with a goal of losing weight and maintaining LBM, I think body weight exercises have a very valid place in a program (or as the whole program) as long as you follow the guidelines of progressive overload as you would with any weight based resistance program.
You will not get strong as quickly as you would with the increased resistance of weights as you will not be challenging your CNS nearly as much, but there is good progression to be had for some time as a beginner. On the flipside, many body weight exercises are extremely good at working supporting muscles for balance - ask a guy who squats 400 how many ATG pistol squats he can perform... chances are not too many!
Without having read the book you are referring to, one suggestion I would make is to acquire a pullup bar. pushing movements are a lot easier with body weight, but you want to make sure you have a way to incorporate pulling movements for your back as well.0 -
From the research I have done it seems there is still some benefit from being in a higher rep range (for hypertrophy as well as endurance - this is still a highly debated topic though), but I would agree with you SS that there comes a point where the inefficiency of some body weight movements outweigh their benefit.
Yeah I'm sure there may be some benefit, but I would expect that to diminish the further you get into rep ranges that are typically considered endurance, and as you mention, taken to an extreme you're then becoming quite inefficient.
I would also assume (certainly doesn't mean I'm right) that a beginning trainee may see more relative benefit vs a trained lifter when comparing hypertrophy response when training in really high rep ranges (I believe there was a short term study comparing 30 rep sets to 10 rep sets with approximately equal total intensity or something of that nature, but it was done on inexperienced trainees).
Total speculation on my part.0 -
I completely agree with what Sidesteel said as someone that faces the issue of having equipment available to them.
Bodyweight exercise can be great and if that is all you can do...then do it. But as you know (from what you posted in your OP) - there are variations of exercises that can keep your routine challenging.
Push ups are definitely a great body weight exercise for your shoulders, chest and core. My personal experience is having worked up from wall push ups to half then full. I was pushing on the numbers and managed to be able to pull 3 sets of 32. A friend noticed and mentioned that I was really just working on endurance versus strength and had me researching into variations to keep myself challenged.
Because of that, I'm now focusing on declines in order to one day do handstand push ups. I'm also working on diamond push ups to focus on the triceps area and to help make doing divebombers "easier".
Bodybuilding.com has a large database to search out or there are programs like Convict Conditioning, Nerd Fitness and YAYOG.
Bodyweight squats are great to start, but aside from pistol squats, adding weight is definitely something you might want to look into once things progress to where you are able to do say 5 sets of 25.
At this point, I'd be pushing for an investment into dumbbells with plates but you could also use household items like gallon jugs or even sandbags designed for exercise use.
Having these will open your path up for more exercises and/or challenging you on the ones you are already doing. (I.e. bodyweight squats being changed out for goblet squats, sumo squats, and Bulgarian squats. Including dumbbell deadlifts or/and single leg dumbbell deadlifts. Shoulder presses, tricep extensions and so on.)
Another alternative you could look into is TRX Suspension training for home use.0 -
If your bodyweight program allows you to train your entire body (hit all major muscle groups) in a manner that allows you keep your volume and intensity within a reasonable range for hypertrophy, and you are able to progress throughout the program (add volume/intensity over time), you should get good results.
I had to look up hypertrophy with respect to weight training. If I understand this correctly, my goal is to have sufficiently challenging strength exercises such that I can complete only a limited number of reps, therefore building an increase in strength rather than muscle endurance. Does that sound about right?
In the bodyweight program I am considering, when you are able to complete 3 sets of 10 reps, you are then supposed to move up to the next harder variant of the exercise (for example, from a wide pushup to a pushup with your hands placed close together, forming a diamond, etc.). The program is geared for this type of progression from one exercise variant to a harder one, rather than increasing reps of the same exercise. So, does that sound like an approach that might plausibly create hypertrophy? I'm certainly not an advanced lifter--for example, my bench press at the gym is just 47 lbs right now.
And thank you, everyone who has weighed in (pun intended)!0 -
OP- I'm no expert, but I wanted to give my two cents, as I've been using the very book you mention, since April.
I have been progressing through the program, and I'm seeing both an increase in strength and an improvement in body composition. I suspect that at some point, I will hit a wall where I need to move on to free weights, but I'm no where near that point yet.
I do wonder if I would get faster results with free weights? but I haven't enough knowledge to make that guess.
All that to say, body weight strength training, as laid out by Mark Lauren, is worth doing, especially if you don't have access to free weights (as is the case for me). This program does progressively get tougher, as Sidesteel suggests.0 -
If your bodyweight program allows you to train your entire body (hit all major muscle groups) in a manner that allows you keep your volume and intensity within a reasonable range for hypertrophy, and you are able to progress throughout the program (add volume/intensity over time), you should get good results.
I had to look up hypertrophy with respect to weight training. If I understand this correctly, my goal is to have sufficiently challenging strength exercises such that I can complete only a limited number of reps, therefore building an increase in strength rather than muscle endurance. Does that sound about right?
In the bodyweight program I am considering, when you are able to complete 3 sets of 10 reps, you are then supposed to move up to the next harder variant of the exercise (for example, from a wide pushup to a pushup with your hands placed close together, forming a diamond, etc.). The program is geared for this type of progression from one exercise variant to a harder one, rather than increasing reps of the same exercise. So, does that sound like an approach that might plausibly create hypertrophy? I'm certainly not an advanced lifter--for example, my bench press at the gym is just 47 lbs right now!
It does to me. From my understanding -
1-5 reps is a focus on strength
6-12 is a focus on hypertrophy
13+ is endurance.
But, I know there are some exercises where the rep # is increased in each category. I have been applying this to what I do but if anyone knows different, I would love the correction.
For the push ups - I can do declines and wide push ups pretty good but diamonds kill me! I think maybe look into doing some bench dips for the triceps in order to help you do them. I do mine on the ledge with my feet propped up a bit. You can do them with just the ledge and squat down...or do them between chairs.
Have you thought about a pull up bar for chin ups and pull ups? The Iron Gym bar is about $30 on amazon.0 -
From my understanding -
1-5 reps is a focus on strength
6-12 is a focus on hypertrophy
13+ is endurance.
Have you thought about a pull up bar for chin ups and pull ups? The Iron Gym bar is about $30 on amazon.
That's really interesting. What is the difference between hypertrophy and strength? If I do the BBY program, I will at some point have to get a bar for chin ups, since I'd rather not use the top edge of my doors! I like the idea of following a systematic program, with a clear, logical progression. That was the appeal of Stronglifts for me as well. But I'd really like to skip the gym.0 -
From my understanding -
1-5 reps is a focus on strength
6-12 is a focus on hypertrophy
13+ is endurance.
Have you thought about a pull up bar for chin ups and pull ups? The Iron Gym bar is about $30 on amazon.
That's really interesting. What is the difference between hypertrophy and strength? If I do the BBY program, I will at some point have to get a bar for chin ups, since I'd rather not use the top edge of my doors! I like the idea of following a systematic program, with a clear, logical progression. That was the appeal of Stronglifts for me as well. But I'd really like to skip the gym.
From my understanding -
Technically the 1-5 and the 6-12 both still deal with hypertrophy, but of different types of hypertrophy. the 1-5, though, is more commonly just referred to "strength" and the 6-12 as hypertrophy.
The focus on strength is basically just focusing on the gaining of strength with minimal change to muscle size and composition.
With the focus on hypertrophy reps, you are focusing on endurance of the muscle, as well as more emphasis on body recomposition (basically). You'll still gain strength, of course, but not as quickly then if you were focusing on strength gains.
*If I'm missing anything important or something is incorrect, please someone add in/correct me
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That's really interesting. What is the difference between hypertrophy and strength? If I do the BBY program, I will at some point have to get a bar for chin ups, since I'd rather not use the top edge of my doors! I like the idea of following a systematic program, with a clear, logical progression. That was the appeal of Stronglifts for me as well. But I'd really like to skip the gym.
Hypertrophy is basically an increase in the volume (size or your skeletal muscle), strength is somewhat correlated with muscle size, but it relies on the adaptation of your central nervous system as much as it does on your muscles. Hence you can be strong through your body 'learning' to adapt to pushing around more weight, without developing a whole lot of muscle tissue (which is very difficult for most women anyway... but that is a topic that has already been covered ad nauseam).0 -
Just to throw out a few more resources, in addition to the great ones mentioned above . . .
http://www.dragondoor.com/pdf/Convict_Conditioning_SUPER_FAQ.pdf
http://www.allthingsgym.com/convict-conditioning-summary-cheat-sheet/
http://ashotofadrenaline.net/body-weight-progression-guide/ (this whole site is worth exploring)
http://www.alkavadlo.com/2010/05/14/mastering-your-body-weight/
Yeah, they're trying to sell stuff, but there is a lot of great free info.
I also like Mark Lauren/YAYOG and have the book and app (app is definitely worth getting for a few bucks).
After reading about the principle of progressive overload and structuring a workout, I quickly moved from the gym to body weight training. I try to approximate the major compound lifts (vertical and horizontal push and pull, quads and hams). So I do pull ups and assisted handstand push ups (legs partially resting on something) for vertical (or OHP with kettlebell), push ups and inverted rows (or, as Lauren calls them, "let me ups") for horizontal, squats for quads (I use a 25lb kettlebell), and one legged-Romanian deadlifts with kettlebell for hams. The hams/deadlift approximation is the most difficult one to find IMO.
Then there are a ton of other options to target minor muscle groups.
I think, at least within the continuum of fitness I aspire to, my progression in body weight training is only limited by my imagination. As people mentioned above, leverage is your friend if an exercise is too easy. Also, slowing down the movement increases the difficulty considerably.
You can also play around with rep ranges to help you progress. So when you can do 3x10 of an exercise, increase the difficulty slightly so that you can only do 3x5. When you can do 3x10 of those, increase it again . . .
I agree that an over the door pull up bar is essential, and you might also look into kettlebells, dumbbells, or other ways to effectively increase the weight of your body as you progress.0 -
Bumping to follow. Very interesting!0
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Hi all,
I've decided to move forward with the BBY program. It seems like I can meet the principles of hypertrophy/strength training with a well-structured body weight program. I reviewed the program again based on what's been discussed above, and I think it's well laid out. Allonsytothetardis and jsl_mfp's comments have given me an extra boost of confidence in this approach to training. And, thank you, jsl_mfp for the links! Again, my goals are fairly basic, just to be stronger, slimmer and more fit. I'm tired of driving to the gym only to wait around. We have power-lifters, and alas, they wait upwards of 7 minutes between their humongous lifts, which I totally understand, but at the same time sucks my time away. You can't exactly ask to "work in" when they have the bars in the squat boxes loaded with 350 lbs. Most of the other gyms around just have machines, not squat boxes. We have a small home and I don't want to buy a ton of equipment that I'm going to outgrow, though I wouldn't mind getting a few worthwhile pieces. And frankly, the approach appeals to the minimalist in me. I'd like to avoid depending on access to a gym, lots of specialized equipment, etc. It simplifies things and reduces excuses, y'know?
If anyone else is interested in pursuing this approach, please feel free to friend me! I can report back in a couple of months if you'd like. Thanks to everyone who responded to this thread. I learned a lot!0 -
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I'd love to join the gym, but broke girl is broke, so this might help0 -
I'd love to join the gym, but broke girl is broke, so this might help
Here, check out the book! It's only $12 at Amazon, which isn't much more than one visit to a lot of gyms in my area!
http://www.amazon.com/Body-You-Guide-Womens-Fitness/dp/0345528972/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376531486&sr=8-1&keywords=body+by+you+mark+lauren0 -
I would like to check this out as well, for various reasons. When I joined the gym I was given a couple of free sessions with a trainer and this was what he had me doing - just bodyweight exercises, with 3lb dumb bells in addition. But,. when my free sessions were over I had to pay extra if I wanted a list of the various workouts he had me do. I couldn't remember them all because he changed them every visit. I couldn't afford what he wanted to write them down so I have really no structure but thoroughly enjoyed this type of workout. If this is as structured as it appears, it could be what I've been wanting.0
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I would like to check this out as well, for various reasons. When I joined the gym I was given a couple of free sessions with a trainer and this was what he had me doing - just bodyweight exercises, with 3lb dumb bells in addition. But,. when my free sessions were over I had to pay extra if I wanted a list of the various workouts he had me do. I couldn't remember them all because he changed them every visit. I couldn't afford what he wanted to write them down so I have really no structure but thoroughly enjoyed this type of workout. If this is as structured as it appears, it could be what I've been wanting.
So you no longer go to they gym or just don't do the sessions with the PT?0
