Ideas for low carb and low protein foods
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"Are you familiar with the work of Ben Bikman?" Yes, do you visit the Low Carb and Keto sub forums regularly? If so you would see that I have posted his videos. And if you visit the Success main forum threads you would also find I have posted his videos there as well. Here's a link to another thread where I posted one of his videos which I suggest you watch and learn some stuff from: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10737990/info#latest
"He would really help you understand how it’s the process of GNG to provide the necessary 130g glucose each day that prompts ketogenesis." Did you even watch the video you linked lol? No where in the video does he mention anything at all about 130 g/day of glucose. I think you need to research some of the terms used in ketogenic lifestyle
Research the hormone Glucagon. In may help you in some ways with the info you seem to need more than others. Further you are very off here. I don't think you took in any of that video if you even did watch the whole thing. To make it simpler for you here ya go; start watching it at 21min 26 seconds where he describes the insulin:glucagon ratio declines as it's need for endogenous glucose increases. Nothing to do with "prompting ketogenisis" as you stated. He goes on further to say people would go on to become hypoglycemic without this metabolic occurrence. Something I have stated several times on this forum and is also why everyone In our group including my wife tests our blood ketones, our blood glucose, and gets regular blood and urine lab tests to see if our health is not only good but improving as we do this lifestyle and WOE. Further, the Dr goes on to say at 22:12 to 22:43 of the video that there is only one known cell in the human body that 100% needs glucose (nope not brain cells--(I know that's what you and your buddy Midwesterner would have guessed)---It's Erythrocytes lol.. He goes on to school you on more stuff you should actually watch and listen to. Man oh man.
"Anyone eating so little carbohydrate as to not supply all of that need, and whom also has minimal glycogen storage, will be in Ketosis" You are only partially right here and in fact you back up my information I stated where not every individual is the same. Look in to that further to learn more. Science, not opinion. Lot's of things come into play here like genetics, organ function, age/health, insulin resistance, diabetes etc etc... In fact your own video you linked by Dr. Bikman states this himself (he covers some of those things) at 30:25 to 35:45of the video; explaining how the carb level will have to be adjusted by the INDIVIDUAL himself for his/her metabolism and life factors.
"Testing methods and human error or simple lying is a much greater likelihood than some genetic defect that ultimately lead to death if a person could not make their own glucose. If a person is indeed making their glucose then they are also in Ketosis according to Bikman." Why are you even saying any of this kind of stuff? Where did I say anything anywhere about a person not being able to make their own glucose???!!!! LOL Please Sunny quote me quote me!!! You must be able to find that somewhere on one of my posts right in order for you to take the time to write this. Seriously by statements like this I am starting to wonder if you and your buddy are just trolling here. For real how else would you explain this?
"Imma trust him over your wife’s lax record keeping." Lol if you are gonna trust him (I certainly do) then you should practice what you say he preaches cause I don't really think you know anything about his teachings from your writings. Sorry but you showed that by how you didn't really even know what you posted the video about.
Further you don't have to trust anything about my wife's "lax record keeping" I could care less what you think about her record keeping lol. But if you actually want to learn more about things I welcome you to come for a visit and meet some people who would gladly help you out with "not lax record keeping" Like a years worth of doctor/dietician/specialists record keeping. They may be able to help you learn how to do strict record keeping
But they must all be lying like your statement above where you say "human error or simple lying" right Sunny?
Also, Ketosis doesn’t make a person lose fat or burn fat. It’s not necessary to lose fat or to achieve health. Unless someone is treating a neurological condition, which they would be guided by a doctor, remaining in Ketosis above 0.5mmol full time isn’t an issue." WT_!!!!!???? LOL ya right ketosis doesn't burn fat??? Are you for real? If the body doesn't have enough glucose it will burn body fat. If you don't know that please go find some information or just do a simple definition search of Ketosis man on man lol. Here ya go: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/180858.php. NO *KITTEN it's not necessary!! Who said it was?? Please Sunny go find a quote where I said it WAS necessary!! Anyone on this forum knows CICO deficit will also burn fat but who cares? Why are you here preaching that on this sub forum?? Cause you are a troll right?? This sub forum is for Keto folks who either want to burn their body fat by KETOSIS or to use ketosis for an athletic performance reason, or just for lifestyle. But for you to make a horribly false statement that it wont burn fat man oh man who are you trying to be? Keto (ketosis) is done to restrict glucose in order to make the metabolism BURN FAT FOR FUEL. But nowhere did I ever say it was necessary. Good god. I didn't realize you were that uninformed but now that does explain some of your other previous comments.
"Also, you seemed to think Midwesterner had suggested that people need to eat carbs or something. You made comments about how your brain isn’t dying on 15g carbs. Nobody ever suggested any such thing.
Half the time you seem to be opposing statements that no one even made. " No lol. He made the statement that my wife was neither producing ketones nor glucose. Read everything and quote me please!!!! I even quoted him as such and he stated I had said so. NOPE lol. Get your facts straight. That's why I quote y'all lol. He made the statements about the brain needing glucose.... hence my comment about my brain not dying. Good grief lol. This thread is very entertaining with the B._. In it.
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WOW!!!! Nothing about Ideas for low carb and low protein foods here. I started to read some of this but then got Nauseous half way threw.
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PaulChasinDreams wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »Giving advice like "IMO as long as you are limiting your carbs, you will get in to Ketosis." Is really counterproductive to people who want and need to know that they are in ketosis. A guessing game is no certain way to ensure you are doing what you set out to do. And sorry but it just isn't true that eating "limiting your carbs will get you into ketosis" Every metabolism is different and things written online about it like eat under 50 grams or 20 grams a day is just a very very basic guideline. No one will truly know they are in ketosis without testing for it. Why do it if you don't know you are truly converting your metabolism to burn off it's fat stores??
And your comment "I'm not really a fan of all of the fancy monitoring devices." Well if what you are doing without one is working then good for you but a scientific device created to give people accurate factual readings about their ketone levels is the most necessary item anyone trying to get into ketosis should have. Or you could just be spinning your wheels "hoping" you are in ketosis and guessing when and if you are in it.
Our brains (and CNS) need about 120g-130g of glucose daily. Unlike skeletal muscles, our brains cannot directly oxidize fat. However, our brains can use ketones in place of some carbs. After glycogen stores have been sufficiently depleted, glucose comes from only food and gluconeogenesis. Our livers will make ketones to feed our brains when insufficient glucose is available. So to say that 20g of net carbs will put someone (any human with a functioning brain) into ketosis is a fair statement. Is it possible that an outlier exists... someone who has such a high level of gluconeogeneis that they are not in a state of ketosis? Sure, it's scientifically possible. It's quite unlikely, though.
"quite unlikely" Nope not at all. My wife is one, and so are several people in our doctor supervised control group of 20. And if you do some research there are lot's and lot's and lot's of folks all over the world that struggle to get into ketosis simply by "trying" to eat under 50 or 20 grams of carbs a day.
Here is where you state your wife eats 20g of carbs and does not produce ketones.
Relevant sections:
"Is it possible that an outlier exists... someone who has such a high level of gluconeogeneis that they are not in a state of ketosis?"
"My wife is one, and so are several people in our doctor supervised control group of 20."1 -
Okay, all. ***MOD HAT HERE***
Please, everyone take a deep breath and step back. Aside from the fact that personal attacks are being made at this point, which is a violation of MFP's policies, in general you are all arguing the same basic points.
Semantics, wordplay, and perspective, as well as interpretation as to other's intentions are skewing perspective here.
No, everyone is not the same. No, a single set of experiment on a small test group does not an expert make. No, personal experience of 5-10 years in ketosis does not an expert make, either. Let's please be respectful.
There is also a huge difference between Medical Ketosis, which is how a ketogenic diet was initially developed - for management of neurological conditions -- and Nutritional Ketosis - for management of weight or health conditions like diabetes, etc. These two things cannot be used interchangeably.
Specific arguments made are taking items out of context. I am closing this post for comments at this time.
I would strongly suggest that everyone who reads this post to go back and reread the information here with a more open point of view. Much of the information is similar, even when two people stated what they saw as opposing points. Being rude and argumentative is not helpful, particularly with an air of superiority. It will not be tolerated in this group. Please go back to constructive sharing of information.
Also, please remember that they call the subject "practicing medicine," because no fact that we discover anywhere along the way is 100% proven. We can all always learn more, and sometimes what we learn down the road was correlation, not causation was the source of a specific reaction. Also, as even identical twins can have varying reactions to the same situational experiment due to environmental differences that cannot be controlled 100%, let's remember that just because something works for 1 person or 1,000,000 people - it does not guarantee that it will work for you, and the reverse is true, as well. Just because something doesn't work for you, it does not guarantee that it will not work for someone else.
Have a good day, all.2
This discussion has been closed.