Does CICO (calories in/calories) Matter In Ketosis Does Ketosis Burn Fat
PaulChasinDreams
Posts: 439 Member
Saddens me, frustrates me, and angers me to see some horrible advice going on in this Keto sub forum. Is that my opinion or fact? You be the judge.
There's been questions around the sub forum, statements, opinions etc regarding peoples intake of fats, calories, macro combo's etc etc lately and specific comments from some individuals stating that "you don't have to be in ketosis to burn fat" or things like conceptual semantics going on so much here lately with references like "burning ketones" and "burning fat" and being in "ketosis" or "fat adapted" blah blah blah etc etc..
When it all comes down to it, there is some very basic facts that are getting horribly wrong here on this sub forum. The major one I see by a few members here is the facts that they are pushing here is that it's all about CICO and that you aren't burning fat being in Ketosis. Bull *Kitten! Big time. More semantics. Common occurance in the main forums and from what I've read here is a major reason why these sub forums were originally formed.
First off if you are in ketosis full time, restrict your carb intake down low enough and stay that way you will be in ketosis, and become fat adapted. No brainer right? Well some here think it's a big leap and they must publish more semantics regarding that. And members posting useless links (sure, in my opinion) that talk about urine strips and a horribly written anecdotal account is scary. Like this one lol http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2016/01/dont-be-a-ketard1.html?m=1 Useless, very useless. If you don't know you have to be fat adapted then don't bother trying to convert your metabolism. Is it all because there's so much hype going on with keto lately that people are scrambling with dribble like this? And for heaven's sake if you want to properly track the ketones that matter, the ones in your blood, then buy a blood monitor. In Canada they are free and you just pay for the blood test strips. In the USA a company makes them that sells for $60 then you just pay $1 each for the blood test strips after that. I have calculated $ I used to spend on garbage food, eating out at restaurants, and overeating before living this way. I save on average over $100 month living this lifestyle just in that regard. To me the $1 a piece I spend on blood test strips is the best money I could ever spend. It is the biggest part of all of this to me. My 2 cents there.
Fact is you DO NOT have to be in a caloric deficit for your ketogenic, fat adapted metabolism to BURN fat off your body. I think some posters here are stuck in the past. As I know a few of them come from and post regularly on the main CICO boards and yup they are stuck in that thermodynamic mind set.
I will go further into the "theory" about "why don't you just waste away to nothing" if you stay in ketosis too...Hang on good god lol.
First off I'll fill you in on my own history if you don't know about it. It's anecdotal yes of course. But it's all documented very closely by doctors, dietician, and control group of 20 of us whom I also mentor along with my doctor and dietician. A link to my original fat loss thread: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10678145/80-pounds-lost-in-21-weeks#latest As most of fat loss ketogenic stories as of late around the world are anecdotal because it is young in our history as a developed society using it for this purpose. But yes there are of course plenty around that are supported by and supervised by doctors/dieticians etc like mine was. Sure Keto has been around for a very long time for medical reasons and it was a natural way of eating before the world became developed etc BUT new science, doctors, surgeons, dieticians, etc etc are doing more and more research on it daily. More and more evidence is coming forward regularly with regards to WOE, medical uses, health, athletic performance etc etc.
My story: (I have cut and pasted this from my original "success story" from the main boards on this forum) Well my fat loss journey was not about CICO whatsoever. Not once did I count calories during the majority of my fat loss. I was focused primarily on getting into and staying in ketosis while also doing intermittent fasting in order to gain the metabolic fat burning advantage it supplies. Which it did incredibly. I was always averaging between 3 to 4 lbs of fat loss per week even after the initial big water weight was gone at the beginning. Those numbers continued all the way. Under doctor's supervision the whole time. When people starting questioning the fact that I was losing so much fat without caring about calories I decided to start looking at and tracking my calories to see if what I have researched was in fact true..that I was losing so much fat and not being in a caloric deficit. Cause I was eating a lot of calories as I was losing fat. I knew that but I wanted to start tracking and documenting it. That is where my doctor started to get very interested in it all too. What we found is that I consistently lost fat week by week while being in caloric surpluses of up to 400 calories a day. Days varied of course but what we wanted to find out and prove is that by the end of the weeks I was always in caloric surpluses. And I was. My doctor started researching it a lot at that point and got a registered Dietician involved with it all. We wanted to make sure any exercise was very carefully monitored and accounted for any energy(calorie) burn. So we did some very careful tests along the way where no exercise was involved to get very solid numbers of CICO during the fat loss. Keep in mind there is a tipping point I am sure where you can of course consume too much calories a day where it will interrupt your fat loss while even in ketosis. Scientists have found that out as well. Seems to be the metabolic advantage starts to be lost above 400 calorie surpluses but again that probably also depends a lot on the persons genetic make up, organ function, if they are insulin resistant, over all health etc.. So many things play apart with that respect.
As time went on I wanted to ensure I did not lose muscle mass along the way with fat loss and I wanted to try to build lean mass while losing the fat. So I made sure I was getting my macro's right while losing fat to do this and was working out. I did have an injury along the way too so that slowed down all exercise for a while. As my fat was leaving my body very rapidly (most things you read on the internet say don't lose more than 2 lbs per week for safety/health reasons-talk to a doctor/dietician, get blood/urine tests along the way to ensure rapid fat loss is safe for you more than 2 lbs a week. It is absolutely if done right) and I was getting down to lower and lower BMI I wanted to really focus on building lean mass (muscle). I have a large frame for my height. I was carrying a lot of muscle under my fat. So I began really focusing on more protein, working out and staying in ketosis in this later part of my journey. Which required taking in more nutrients daily but still very little carbs. So It became harder for me to do the OMAD (one meal a day) so that's when I changed to two meals in a 6-7 hr window) and it's working very well for me. Intermittent fasting combined with Ketosis is a very powerful metabolic advantage where you can burn a lot of stored fat rapidly. You won't find many forum member here supporting that sort of thing because like I mentioned earlier this forum is all about CICO. If you research these things yourself you will probably find a lot more information about what I talk about and what I practice than what you will find on this forum unfortunately. But there are some sub groups in the forum that are focused more on LC, Keto and Intermittent Fasting.
When I made the change to focus more on building lean mass (while still having some fat on my body) is the only point I started getting concerned about caloric intake because I needed to "grow" muscle. And my protein intake increased. This part is all still very resent as I am still on this journey.
If you watch from about 37 min, 40 seconds of this video to about 40 minutes, 5 seconds of this video the doctor talks about thermodynamics (CICO) and how it doesn't come into play while being in the metabolic advantaged ketogenic state. This is a fact proven by thousands of people all over the world and by myself along with the group of folks I am involved with in our control group. Tons of new studies going on regarding this as it's a very powerful tool. This whole video by a mentor of mine Dr. Bikman is chock full of very valuable information. And from my findings personally very accurate.
https://youtu.be/3zX3tfuKIlo
To note I have never "drank or eatin" man made (exogenous) ketones you see advertised all over the place now.
Another good video where they discuss this CICO/Ketogenic subject is this one here:
https://youtu.be/mKEn86kbC3w
And another one by Dr Bikman (ketones-the metabolic advantage):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCJS2m92KwI
Now let's get on to the statements, "theories", "opinions" that you will just "waste away" to nothing if you continue on with being in ketosis etc etc..
First off my anecdote evidence. If you read above about my fat loss story you will see that I lost all of my fat being in a caloric surplus the whole time. Well as explained in those videos and from my own evidence (and another 20 people in our control group) there is that metabolic advantage threshold that you need to be in to have that occur, BUT if you want to change that where you want to maintain, or gain lean mass, all you have to do is tweek your metabolism by adjusting macro's and calories in. You must go above that threshold because you now want to maintain or gain lean mass. So if you now work out more, have a higher energy demand, and are out of stored fat, you will have to get that higher amount of needed every from consuming more calories in ways of fats and proteins. I'm not going to get into the scientific breakdown of all of that while still being in ketosis. That's a whole other two pages of explanation. But tons of info/explanation of that all over the place now days. Do some reading.
I have now been doing this successfully for months and months. I am gaining lean mass, staying in ketosis while eating (right now to date) a 7% caloric surplus weekly over my BMR. There's advocates recommending between 5 to 10% That will depend on your work out regimes, etc.. The key is the macros and calories though and getting over that metabolic advantage threshold the ketosis gives you. (usually it's a 300-400 cal surplus max daily) Fat come into play big time with this all though and you need to ensure you control any fat gain while gaining lean mass. It's a tricky thing that's for sure.
My health markers are all absolutely perfect. I also do DexaScans regularly for lean mass/fat tracking. Although I (and others I'm involved with) have found that the Dexa's are not the have all be all in what folks think about them. Yes they are good but they are very, very manipulated by your bodies water table. Wanna see that for yourself (we did so we did an experiment) do a DexaScan regularly hydrated. Then within the next 10 minutes or so drink a few bottles of water. A couple pounds worth if you can. Then do another DexaScan and see how your lean mass, and fat #'s change drastically. Yup. Pretty crappy that way cause your hydration level plays a very big roll in your Dexa #'s So take it all with a grain of salt but it is a good tool in the tool box while trying to gain lean mass if you do them regularly at the same times of day and with the same basic hydration levels.
Some videos to help you grasp the reality that you can "not fade away to nothing" (LOL) once your fat is gone if you want to continue on with Keto to either maintain, or gain lean mass. There's a lot to this and a lot of reading, and comprehension of it all is needed. But tons of info on that out there. And once again...not all our metabolisms are the same. Lot's of things come into play here. I'm still tweeking my macros/caloric intake with my newer goals in mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk9lFY20aWY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbTocMbLy9o
Mike and Deanna go off tangent a little here and there with this one. But Mike is a fella I like to follow a fair bit. Very good interviewer when he talks to doctors, dieticians, proponents and critics of Keto etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erSjyQSnY20
There's been questions around the sub forum, statements, opinions etc regarding peoples intake of fats, calories, macro combo's etc etc lately and specific comments from some individuals stating that "you don't have to be in ketosis to burn fat" or things like conceptual semantics going on so much here lately with references like "burning ketones" and "burning fat" and being in "ketosis" or "fat adapted" blah blah blah etc etc..
When it all comes down to it, there is some very basic facts that are getting horribly wrong here on this sub forum. The major one I see by a few members here is the facts that they are pushing here is that it's all about CICO and that you aren't burning fat being in Ketosis. Bull *Kitten! Big time. More semantics. Common occurance in the main forums and from what I've read here is a major reason why these sub forums were originally formed.
First off if you are in ketosis full time, restrict your carb intake down low enough and stay that way you will be in ketosis, and become fat adapted. No brainer right? Well some here think it's a big leap and they must publish more semantics regarding that. And members posting useless links (sure, in my opinion) that talk about urine strips and a horribly written anecdotal account is scary. Like this one lol http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2016/01/dont-be-a-ketard1.html?m=1 Useless, very useless. If you don't know you have to be fat adapted then don't bother trying to convert your metabolism. Is it all because there's so much hype going on with keto lately that people are scrambling with dribble like this? And for heaven's sake if you want to properly track the ketones that matter, the ones in your blood, then buy a blood monitor. In Canada they are free and you just pay for the blood test strips. In the USA a company makes them that sells for $60 then you just pay $1 each for the blood test strips after that. I have calculated $ I used to spend on garbage food, eating out at restaurants, and overeating before living this way. I save on average over $100 month living this lifestyle just in that regard. To me the $1 a piece I spend on blood test strips is the best money I could ever spend. It is the biggest part of all of this to me. My 2 cents there.
Fact is you DO NOT have to be in a caloric deficit for your ketogenic, fat adapted metabolism to BURN fat off your body. I think some posters here are stuck in the past. As I know a few of them come from and post regularly on the main CICO boards and yup they are stuck in that thermodynamic mind set.
I will go further into the "theory" about "why don't you just waste away to nothing" if you stay in ketosis too...Hang on good god lol.
First off I'll fill you in on my own history if you don't know about it. It's anecdotal yes of course. But it's all documented very closely by doctors, dietician, and control group of 20 of us whom I also mentor along with my doctor and dietician. A link to my original fat loss thread: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10678145/80-pounds-lost-in-21-weeks#latest As most of fat loss ketogenic stories as of late around the world are anecdotal because it is young in our history as a developed society using it for this purpose. But yes there are of course plenty around that are supported by and supervised by doctors/dieticians etc like mine was. Sure Keto has been around for a very long time for medical reasons and it was a natural way of eating before the world became developed etc BUT new science, doctors, surgeons, dieticians, etc etc are doing more and more research on it daily. More and more evidence is coming forward regularly with regards to WOE, medical uses, health, athletic performance etc etc.
My story: (I have cut and pasted this from my original "success story" from the main boards on this forum) Well my fat loss journey was not about CICO whatsoever. Not once did I count calories during the majority of my fat loss. I was focused primarily on getting into and staying in ketosis while also doing intermittent fasting in order to gain the metabolic fat burning advantage it supplies. Which it did incredibly. I was always averaging between 3 to 4 lbs of fat loss per week even after the initial big water weight was gone at the beginning. Those numbers continued all the way. Under doctor's supervision the whole time. When people starting questioning the fact that I was losing so much fat without caring about calories I decided to start looking at and tracking my calories to see if what I have researched was in fact true..that I was losing so much fat and not being in a caloric deficit. Cause I was eating a lot of calories as I was losing fat. I knew that but I wanted to start tracking and documenting it. That is where my doctor started to get very interested in it all too. What we found is that I consistently lost fat week by week while being in caloric surpluses of up to 400 calories a day. Days varied of course but what we wanted to find out and prove is that by the end of the weeks I was always in caloric surpluses. And I was. My doctor started researching it a lot at that point and got a registered Dietician involved with it all. We wanted to make sure any exercise was very carefully monitored and accounted for any energy(calorie) burn. So we did some very careful tests along the way where no exercise was involved to get very solid numbers of CICO during the fat loss. Keep in mind there is a tipping point I am sure where you can of course consume too much calories a day where it will interrupt your fat loss while even in ketosis. Scientists have found that out as well. Seems to be the metabolic advantage starts to be lost above 400 calorie surpluses but again that probably also depends a lot on the persons genetic make up, organ function, if they are insulin resistant, over all health etc.. So many things play apart with that respect.
As time went on I wanted to ensure I did not lose muscle mass along the way with fat loss and I wanted to try to build lean mass while losing the fat. So I made sure I was getting my macro's right while losing fat to do this and was working out. I did have an injury along the way too so that slowed down all exercise for a while. As my fat was leaving my body very rapidly (most things you read on the internet say don't lose more than 2 lbs per week for safety/health reasons-talk to a doctor/dietician, get blood/urine tests along the way to ensure rapid fat loss is safe for you more than 2 lbs a week. It is absolutely if done right) and I was getting down to lower and lower BMI I wanted to really focus on building lean mass (muscle). I have a large frame for my height. I was carrying a lot of muscle under my fat. So I began really focusing on more protein, working out and staying in ketosis in this later part of my journey. Which required taking in more nutrients daily but still very little carbs. So It became harder for me to do the OMAD (one meal a day) so that's when I changed to two meals in a 6-7 hr window) and it's working very well for me. Intermittent fasting combined with Ketosis is a very powerful metabolic advantage where you can burn a lot of stored fat rapidly. You won't find many forum member here supporting that sort of thing because like I mentioned earlier this forum is all about CICO. If you research these things yourself you will probably find a lot more information about what I talk about and what I practice than what you will find on this forum unfortunately. But there are some sub groups in the forum that are focused more on LC, Keto and Intermittent Fasting.
When I made the change to focus more on building lean mass (while still having some fat on my body) is the only point I started getting concerned about caloric intake because I needed to "grow" muscle. And my protein intake increased. This part is all still very resent as I am still on this journey.
If you watch from about 37 min, 40 seconds of this video to about 40 minutes, 5 seconds of this video the doctor talks about thermodynamics (CICO) and how it doesn't come into play while being in the metabolic advantaged ketogenic state. This is a fact proven by thousands of people all over the world and by myself along with the group of folks I am involved with in our control group. Tons of new studies going on regarding this as it's a very powerful tool. This whole video by a mentor of mine Dr. Bikman is chock full of very valuable information. And from my findings personally very accurate.
https://youtu.be/3zX3tfuKIloTo note I have never "drank or eatin" man made (exogenous) ketones you see advertised all over the place now.
Another good video where they discuss this CICO/Ketogenic subject is this one here:
https://youtu.be/mKEn86kbC3wAnd another one by Dr Bikman (ketones-the metabolic advantage):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCJS2m92KwINow let's get on to the statements, "theories", "opinions" that you will just "waste away" to nothing if you continue on with being in ketosis etc etc..
First off my anecdote evidence. If you read above about my fat loss story you will see that I lost all of my fat being in a caloric surplus the whole time. Well as explained in those videos and from my own evidence (and another 20 people in our control group) there is that metabolic advantage threshold that you need to be in to have that occur, BUT if you want to change that where you want to maintain, or gain lean mass, all you have to do is tweek your metabolism by adjusting macro's and calories in. You must go above that threshold because you now want to maintain or gain lean mass. So if you now work out more, have a higher energy demand, and are out of stored fat, you will have to get that higher amount of needed every from consuming more calories in ways of fats and proteins. I'm not going to get into the scientific breakdown of all of that while still being in ketosis. That's a whole other two pages of explanation. But tons of info/explanation of that all over the place now days. Do some reading.
I have now been doing this successfully for months and months. I am gaining lean mass, staying in ketosis while eating (right now to date) a 7% caloric surplus weekly over my BMR. There's advocates recommending between 5 to 10% That will depend on your work out regimes, etc.. The key is the macros and calories though and getting over that metabolic advantage threshold the ketosis gives you. (usually it's a 300-400 cal surplus max daily) Fat come into play big time with this all though and you need to ensure you control any fat gain while gaining lean mass. It's a tricky thing that's for sure.
My health markers are all absolutely perfect. I also do DexaScans regularly for lean mass/fat tracking. Although I (and others I'm involved with) have found that the Dexa's are not the have all be all in what folks think about them. Yes they are good but they are very, very manipulated by your bodies water table. Wanna see that for yourself (we did so we did an experiment) do a DexaScan regularly hydrated. Then within the next 10 minutes or so drink a few bottles of water. A couple pounds worth if you can. Then do another DexaScan and see how your lean mass, and fat #'s change drastically. Yup. Pretty crappy that way cause your hydration level plays a very big roll in your Dexa #'s So take it all with a grain of salt but it is a good tool in the tool box while trying to gain lean mass if you do them regularly at the same times of day and with the same basic hydration levels.
Some videos to help you grasp the reality that you can "not fade away to nothing" (LOL) once your fat is gone if you want to continue on with Keto to either maintain, or gain lean mass. There's a lot to this and a lot of reading, and comprehension of it all is needed. But tons of info on that out there. And once again...not all our metabolisms are the same. Lot's of things come into play here. I'm still tweeking my macros/caloric intake with my newer goals in mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk9lFY20aWYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbTocMbLy9oMike and Deanna go off tangent a little here and there with this one. But Mike is a fella I like to follow a fair bit. Very good interviewer when he talks to doctors, dieticians, proponents and critics of Keto etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erSjyQSnY204
Replies
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I’m so sorry you are frustrated. Can you please let us know what your qualifications are to be such a keto expert? Are you more qualified that Amy Berger MS CNS NTP, author of The Alzheimers Antidote, advocate of low carb and keto, who wrote that post you declare is incorrect?
We appreciate your perspective, having done this “for months and months”, even though many of us are 5+ years into our learning and experience. It’s obvious you speak from a position of authority. I just wonder what your certification, area of expertise is?6 -
You so obviously don't know how to read and you show your true colors by continuing to take things out of context. But it is very typical of you I have seen the way you post all over the forum. If you did know how to read in complete comprehension you would see I have lived this way for well over a year now and as shown have successfully lost all my fat and NOW am concentrating on gaining lean musclear mass. That's the "months and months" part. Back to school you go Sunny. Try another spot on the forum to spread more of that B.*. Lol I feel bad for you honestly.6
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PaulChasinDreams wrote: »You so obviously don't know how to read and you show your true colors by continuing to take things out of context. But it is very typical of you I have seen the way you post all over the forum. If you did know how to read in complete comprehension you would see I have lived this way for well over a year now and as shown have successfully lost all my fat and NOW am concentrating on gaining lean musclear mass. That's the "months and months" part. Back to school you go Sunny. Try another spot on the forum to spread more of that B.*. Lol I feel bad for you honestly.
You've stomped all over the Community Guidelines. It would serve you well to read them.
Here's the link for you: https://myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
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In the years that I've been eating keto, I've lost body fat, I've gained body fat, and I have maintained body fat. The difference amongst these results has been fat consumption (and thus calorie intake) with no substantial differences in carb consumption or protein consumption. When I'm gaining body fat, it is mostly because of re-esterification of the excess free fatty acids that originated from the excess food I ate.1
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"In the years that I've been eating keto, I've lost body fat, I've gained body fat, and I have maintained body fat. The difference amongst these results has been fat consumption (and thus calorie intake) with no substantial differences in carb consumption or protein consumption. When I'm gaining body fat, it is mostly because of re-esterification of the excess free fatty acids that originated from the excess food I ate. "
I agree with that statement. From the short time I've been now gaining lean mass while still in ketosis rather than losing fat I have found that to be true. That's why I wrote above in my post that "Fats come into play big time with this all though and you need to ensure you control any fat gain while gaining lean mass. It's a tricky thing that's for sure." I've got mentors that have been building muscle while in ketosis for years now so it's very nice to have access to pick their brains about their findings and observations. Reading and researching is all good but first hand experience and seeing what others achieve to me is a lot more valuable of a learning experience.1 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »"In the years that I've been eating keto, I've lost body fat, I've gained body fat, and I have maintained body fat. The difference amongst these results has been fat consumption (and thus calorie intake) with no substantial differences in carb consumption or protein consumption. When I'm gaining body fat, it is mostly because of re-esterification of the excess free fatty acids that originated from the excess food I ate. "
I agree with that statement. From the short time I've been now gaining lean mass while still in ketosis rather than losing fat I have found that to be true. That's why I wrote above in my post that "Fats come into play big time with this all though and you need to ensure you control any fat gain while gaining lean mass. It's a tricky thing that's for sure." I've got mentors that have been building muscle while in ketosis for years now so it's very nice to have access to pick their brains about their findings and observations. Reading and researching is all good but first hand experience and seeing what others achieve to me is a lot more valuable of a learning experience.
Perhaps I wasn't clear. As you can conclude from the information I supplied earlier, I'm both fat adapted and keto adapted. During times of weight gain, weight loss, and weight maintenance, I've remained both fat adapted and keto adapted. I've gained body fat when eating at a caloric surplus and lost body fat when eating at a caloric deficit.PaulChasinDreams wrote: »Fact is you DO NOT have to be in a caloric deficit for your ketogenic, fat adapted metabolism to BURN fat off your body.
Energy is in constant movement. So yes, I burn body fat even when eating at a net caloric surplus over a long enough period of time to include times of both caloric deficit and surplus. I burn fat at a caloric deficit when I go on a fasted run. Last summer when running 60 miles per week, I would burn fat off my body (I usually run fasting) while I was running. When I was eating/digesting at rest, I was storing fat. In total, I was storing more body fat during times of storage / caloric surplus than I was using at times of running / caloric deficit. At the end of any given week, I had slightly more body fat as a result.
For the time period of during a run, I was in a caloric deficit and I burned body fat.
For the time period of at rest and eating, I was in a caloric surplus and gaining body fat.
For the time period of an entire week, I was in a caloric surplus, gained body fat, lost body fat, and ended with a net gain of body fat.2 -
I cant take this anymore thinking im going to leave this forum. Best of luck to all.
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My Lord you have a lot of free time on your hands. Who has time to write all that out let alone read?
Listen, you may think you know a lot about Keto/Ketosis/Ketogenics whatever, but you need to concede to the fact that you are not an expect and no, you don’t know everything.7 -
"My Lord you have a lot of free time on your hands. Who has time to write all that out let alone read?
Listen, you may think you know a lot about Keto/Ketosis/Ketogenics whatever, but you need to concede to the fact that you are not an expect and no, you don’t know everything. "
Please, please show me where, anywhere, and quote me please, where I said I am an expert and that "I know everything" The contrary is true actually. I consistently repeat how I am continuing to research, learn, have several mentors, am under the supervision of a doctor, dietician, and a control group. Lol more funny stuff thank you for the laugh though
You go girl!
And yes about your other point; I am very fast at typing lol but if you would have READ the post you would have noticed that I said I simply "copy and pasted" a lot of my weight loss story from my thread in the success area on the main forums. That post took me all of about 3 minutes out of my day lol.
In case you aren't familiar with what "copy and paste" is here ya go
https://pc.net/helpcenter/answers/copy_and_paste
Woops hope you don't think I "know it all" cause I know how to copy and paste
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Locked: consider this your final warning. Play nice or lose your playground privileges.12
This discussion has been closed.