Thinking about cutting sweeteners more severly
GammieLCHF
Posts: 139 Member
As it is now I only really have two sweets. One of these chocolates (1/3 of a serving is 1 raspberry jell and they are mostly sugar alcohols and haven’t affected my ketosis or blood sugar) if I stick to my diet all day, and a packet of Truvia in every cup of coffee I drink.
The Truvia ends up being a lot of my net carbs for the day - sometimes as much as 1/2 my carbs! I’m thinking of cutting all “white sweeteners” like Splenda and Truvia to get rid of the bulking agent carbs. Maybe by using DaVinci syrups because that’s the only thing I really use sweetener in - my coffee which I can have 1-4 cups of daily.
Any tips on switching to better sweetener? I might eventually quit coffee and go for unsweetened hot chai tea which I also love - but I’m just not there yet!
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I bargained with myself for a good 6 months over quitting sweeteners. Every time I cut down on them, using the syrups you mentioned, I always ended back up using more and more again.
I felt they stoked my hunger and caused me to want to eat and even drink more often simply because I kept wanting to taste sweet.
I felt addicted because of the simple fact that every time I tried to cut back, I failed.
I finally got fed up with it and threw everything out. It was hard. I hated coffee for weeks. Almost stopped drinking it entirely. I tried different coffees and different ways to make it and starred enjoying the process and experimenting. Began to focus on the enjoyment of finding a new local roaster to buy from and began to enjoy it again.
I’m very glad I gave up sweeteners. I no longer feel like I ‘need’ something sweet.
The only time I use any sweetener now is when I make a keto dessert for a special occasion or a very rare splash of a Bai drink or stevia MIO in a club soda and alcohol drink. Something I tend to do more in the summer when everyone else is having fruity cocktails.
You know how your taste changes when you go very low carb and stuff that you never though was sweet before starts to taste sweeter? Like cucumbers or something? Well, it happens even more if you cut sweeteners.6 -
Minimally processed pure stevia liquid extract has been a game changer for me. After taking a Nutritional Science class and spending a lot of time on a mid-term project researching sweeteners like Truvia I moved away from it. Good in concept but its a 40 step process for the big soda company to make that product. I've had really good results using liquid stevia / monk fruit. Immediate sweetness for the tongue without the internal effects and only takes a tiny amount due to how intense it is.2
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This is a situation where I will refer to an old Mark Twain story. He was told by his doctor to cut back on his cigar smoking. His response was that he could not. He could quit, but he could not cut back.
I find the same is true for many, if not most, when it comes to added sweeteners. Over the last few years of being on this journey to improve my health, I have read many people's stories about sweeteners as well as having my own. As much as I would love to say add all the stevia and such that you want, I know for most who struggle to any degree with weight or overeating, that is going to be a destructive piece of advice.
The best advice I can give is what I found worked for me. I removed ALL sweeteners for about 3 months. At the end of that time, I noticed things that I never thought of as sweet had a sweet taste - like celery, almonds, bell peppers, even some varieties of spinach. I also found that other flavors were much better. I was never a cook before I started down this road in 2015. Basically, if it could be grilled or smoked or it was chili, I didn't make it. I also thought those who would say things like, "I like the hint of _________ in this" were full of crap. However, I found I was able to do that now to some extent. I did it well enough to have a couple things in restaurants that I was able to go home and reproduce.
Over the last couple of years, I have done some experimentation with sweeteners and found the only use that does not cause me to start down the slippery slope is using just enough liquid stevia in my tea to keep it from being bitter. It is by no means enough to make it sweet.
I have read stories of others who, once they were at their goals (weight, blood sugar, etc.) have been able to add in a bit more than that. Honestly, everything else tastes so much better now without all that added sweetener that having the treats with it is not worth it to me. I would rather have everything taste better than just those few things - especially since those few things tend to make me want to just have more of them which ends up being destructive to my goals.
BTW, I am and have been at goal weight for a while now. I am also no longer diabetic, and haven't been for a while, but my BG is still not where I want it, so I am still looking to improve even further.
Good luck on your journey!5 -
If you like something sweet and it is not causing health issues or causing you to over eat, why not try a powdered stevia with no filler. The stevia I use in my decaf is plain stevia. An ounce container has 622 servings and costs $5.95 at Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. It includes a tiny tiny scoop so one will be sure to not add too much and get the bitter taste so many don't like.2
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Minimally processed pure stevia liquid extract has been a game changer for me. After taking a Nutritional Science class and spending a lot of time on a mid-term project researching sweeteners like Truvia I moved away from it. Good in concept but its a 40 step process for the big soda company to make that product. I've had really good results using liquid stevia / monk fruit. Immediate sweetness for the tongue without the internal effects and only takes a tiny amount due to how intense it is.
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking of going to. I tried Sweet Leaf before tho and found it very bitter.0 -
If you like something sweet and it is not causing health issues or causing you to over eat, why not try a powdered stevia with no filler. The stevia I use in my decaf is plain stevia. An ounce container has 622 servings and costs $5.95 at Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. It includes a tiny tiny scoop so one will be sure to not add too much and get the bitter taste so many don't like.
Hmmm, none of those stores around here - I live in here boondocks - but I’ll see if I can order it to try it.0 -
You can even get powdered dried stevia leaf in a bag but you can only use it in non liquid foods because it is powdered leaf and not something that dissolves.
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Thanks. I only use it in the coffee tho.0
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GammieLCHF wrote: »If you like something sweet and it is not causing health issues or causing you to over eat, why not try a powdered stevia with no filler. The stevia I use in my decaf is plain stevia. An ounce container has 622 servings and costs $5.95 at Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. It includes a tiny tiny scoop so one will be sure to not add too much and get the bitter taste so many don't like.
Hmmm, none of those stores around here - I live in here boondocks - but I’ll see if I can order it to try it.
Amazon has it. '365 Organic Stevia' powder. 1 ounce. $5.99. The 365 brand is Whole Foods generic or private label.2 -
GammieLCHF wrote: »If you like something sweet and it is not causing health issues or causing you to over eat, why not try a powdered stevia with no filler. The stevia I use in my decaf is plain stevia. An ounce container has 622 servings and costs $5.95 at Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. It includes a tiny tiny scoop so one will be sure to not add too much and get the bitter taste so many don't like.
Hmmm, none of those stores around here - I live in here boondocks - but I’ll see if I can order it to try it.
Amazon has it. '365 Organic Stevia' powder. 1 ounce. $5.99. The 365 brand is Whole Foods generic or private label.
Ordering now, thanks! Hopefully it will work. Truvia is 3 net carbs, so this should really cut my carb count! ❤️0 -
Actually, that’s only for Prime Pantry and you have to get $35 worth of products I’ll never use, so I’m thinking I’m gonna try these? Anyone have experience with these?
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70 packets should last me a month, maybe. Lol.0
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I've never used SweetLeaf but have heard several indicate they use it. It is available here (NC) in about every supermarket I have been in so you may not have to order it on line unless that is how you like to purchase things.
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Just be aware that sweeteners of any kind, including stevia, seem to raise insulin levels even if there are no carbs or calories in them.
Up to you whether this is a concern or not; for me it is so I have gone cold turkey and am not using any. Yeah, it means tea does not taste as nice, but I am finding my tastes changing. Plain water tastes far sweeter than it used to, and I now quite like unsweetened plain yoghurt simply with some berries added (I used to add stevia or a little jam).
I don't know what I'll do when it comes to special occasions (birthdays, etc) if making a cake - what is the best option; sugar, stevia, or using a sweet wholefood like dates. I think I'm more likely to go the wholefood route, even if it is more calories and carbs, as it is the insulin response that I think is worse (and wholefoods pack in fibre alongside the carbs which I think is better for me) - either that or just give myself a break and use a normal recipe as we shouldn't stress too much about imperfect eating if it is in balance with everything else.0 -
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@Luciicul Not being confrontational in any way but I am a stevia user and always try to look at all angles for my own knowledge. Do you have a link to a study that shows stevia raises insulin levels?
I've done extensive research on stevia for a Nutrition Science class and if anything stevia improves our insulin sensitivity. As a diabetic I have tested myself as part of a project on stevia with a 16+ hour fast a couple times throughout the semester and my blood sugars went down rather than up.
Stevia mixed with other fillers does have the potential to have a negative effect.4 -
@Luciicul Not being confrontational in any way but I am a stevia user and always try to look at all angles for my own knowledge. Do you have a link to a study that shows stevia raises insulin levels?
I've done extensive research on stevia for a Nutrition Science class and if anything stevia improves our insulin sensitivity. As a diabetic I have tested myself as part of a project on stevia with a 16+ hour fast a couple times throughout the semester and my blood sugars went down rather than up.
Stevia mixed with other fillers does have the potential to have a negative effect.
I’m not aware of any studies that prove it but it’s based on the idea that insulin is secreted upon tasting sweet food in anticipation of blood sugar rise. I believe it’s called first phase insulin response.
Your experiment showing that blood sugar goes down upon using it would actually serve to suggest this theory is actually true rather than untrue, because your body would secrete insulin but have no incoming sugar to actually work upon, therefore bringing blood sugar down.
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@Luciicul Not being confrontational in any way but I am a stevia user and always try to look at all angles for my own knowledge. Do you have a link to a study that shows stevia raises insulin levels?
I've done extensive research on stevia for a Nutrition Science class and if anything stevia improves our insulin sensitivity. As a diabetic I have tested myself as part of a project on stevia with a 16+ hour fast a couple times throughout the semester and my blood sugars went down rather than up.
Stevia mixed with other fillers does have the potential to have a negative effect.
I don't pretend to have done a huge amount of research on it, but I trust that the doctors who have advised against using it have done their research before making such a claim. Perhaps you can share the research evidence that shows us Stevia does not raise insulin?
One study cited: Effects of stevia, aspartame, and sucrose on food intake, satiety, and postprandial glucose and insulin levels https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2900484/ . This study compares stevia to sucrose and aspartame (unfortunately does not have a control who consumed no sweetener at all) and note the graphs that show insulin levels are LOWEST prior to consumption of sweeteners, insulin levels rise after consumption of sweeteners (including stevia), and while the study concludes that in the short term stevia raises insulin less than sucrose consumption does, 120 minutes post-lunch insulin levels are even HIGHER for those who consumed stevia than for those who consumed sucrose.
Unfortunately, I believe most of the research done is about how stevia compares to other sweeteners and sugar, rather than how does it compare to someone not consuming any processed sugar or sweetener. This is typical of commercially driven research: they want evidence that can sell a product, and there is no money to be made from research that shows that it's best not to consume sweeteners (so who would pay to undertake such research?).
So perhaps one can conclude from these studies that Stevia is acceptable for people who refuse to give up on sweeteners, but there is no evidence that it is better than not having a sweetener of any kind. It does raise insulin, as all sugar and sweeteners do.
But if you have evidence to the contrary - that proves Stevia consumption is better than someone not consuming any sweeteners - by all means I would love to know about it. Life would be easier with a healthy sweetener, I just haven't seen any evidence there is one.4 -
@Luciicul Thank you for the response. I agree that there is a lot of comparison vs aspartame, sucrose etc out there. I struggled to find much of anything for the comparison part of my project showing insulin increases from raw/minimal processed stevia and while the professor didn't ding me for being limited on facts on that end it irked me not being able to submit both sides of the argument.
A lot of the research filler I had came from behind academic resource walls with articles and textbook resources from LWW, Pearson and El Sevier. For the discovery portion I spent time on my own testing during fasting but that is in no way validated information.
https://universityhealthnews.com/daily/bones-joints/natural-sugar-substitute-stevia-benefits-bone-health-and-more/ had a good overall bullet point of stevia. The citations in the article also had some additional information.
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/67/Supplement_1/790-P had a human study recap that was free to read.
I opted not to use the NIH study in my research as it was Reb-A inconclusive, focused on rats in the stevia portion and seemed to be more of an aspartame study. I also generally distrust first results on google as they tend to bump paid interests into those spots. IE: Big soda company. For fun type in: Stevia into google and watch all the big soda products come up. That was a fun part of the project in showing how companies sell items as stevia but Dextrose and erythritol etc were the first ingredient.5 -
Tried it. Conclusion: you need a better browser!
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I eat a lot of chocolate but without any kind of sweetners period. Talking about taste changes I just can not seem to get enough whole milk plain Greek yogurt these days and just eat it out of the tub. That one came out of the blue a month or two ago. Recently I bought 5 of the 2 pound tubs and three are already gone. All of my life I would gag on any plain yogurt.
When I dropped sugar I dropped all sweeteners pretty soon because I realized I had no emotional need for them any longer.2 -
Thanks for sharing this, just watched it and thought it was really interesting! I'm not keto, but am becoming more mindful of my artificial sweetener intake. Recently went from 2-4+ cans of diet soda a day, plus several packets a day of Splenda in my coffee, to completely cutting out the diet soda. However, I've added a bit of flavored water enhancer (Crystal Light), which has aspartme (still at a reduced intake from the diet soda!).
It was interesting to see that aspartame is neutral, as is liquid sucralose ie liquid Splenda My weight loss has seemed to take care of my prediabets, but I wonder if I should be paying a bit more attention to all of this. I'm going to see if I can find liquid sucralose for my coffee and eliminate the packets of Splenda. 1 -
Thanks for sharing this, just watched it and thought it was really interesting! I'm not keto, but am becoming more mindful of my artificial sweetener intake. Recently went from 2-4+ cans of diet soda a day, plus several packets a day of Splenda in my coffee, to completely cutting out the diet soda. However, I've added a bit of flavored water enhancer (Crystal Light), which has aspartme (still at a reduced intake from the diet soda!).
It was interesting to see that aspartame is neutral, as is liquid sucralose ie liquid Splenda My weight loss has seemed to take care of my prediabets, but I wonder if I should be paying a bit more attention to all of this. I'm going to see if I can find liquid sucralose for my coffee and eliminate the packets of Splenda.
The best and most cost effective way to get liquid sucralose is to make it yourself. Stuff like EzSweetz is $13/bottle (last I checked) for the big bottle. I bought a few times. I then purchased pure sucralose powder (I use Bulk Supplements from Amazon).- You heat 2 cups water hot enough to dissolve.
- Add 2-3 tsp of pure sucralose powder to the water, depending on how concentrated you want it. Stir and cool.
- Add to dropper bottles and freeze the rest in a plastic container (which you can then thaw overnight when you are about to run out).
A 100g bag was $26, I think I made well over 6 big bottles worth. I'm not sure how many it makes since I stopped counting after that as it took me well over a year to use it up. I think I bought my first bag in Dec of 2016. I reordered in March of 2018. I'm still going strong on my that second bag. I use it in daily coffees and other random things.
HTH 4 -
..and for those interested in stevia and water enhancers: Mio has 3 flavors sweetened with stevia that I am aware of (Strawberry Orange, Tropical Cherry, Blackberry Raspberry).
I think all "Stir" (brand) LIQUIDS (not powdered) are stevia sweetened. Powdered Stir has cane sugar and stevia.3 -
baconslave wrote: »
Thanks for sharing this, just watched it and thought it was really interesting! I'm not keto, but am becoming more mindful of my artificial sweetener intake. Recently went from 2-4+ cans of diet soda a day, plus several packets a day of Splenda in my coffee, to completely cutting out the diet soda. However, I've added a bit of flavored water enhancer (Crystal Light), which has aspartme (still at a reduced intake from the diet soda!).
It was interesting to see that aspartame is neutral, as is liquid sucralose ie liquid Splenda My weight loss has seemed to take care of my prediabets, but I wonder if I should be paying a bit more attention to all of this. I'm going to see if I can find liquid sucralose for my coffee and eliminate the packets of Splenda.
The best and most cost effective way to get liquid sucralose is to make it yourself. Stuff like EzSweetz is $13/bottle (last I checked) for the big bottle. I bought a few times. I then purchased pure sucralose powder (I use Bulk Supplements from Amazon).- You heat 2 cups water hot enough to dissolve.
- Add 2-3 tsp of pure sucralose powder to the water, depending on how concentrated you want it. Stir and cool.
- Add to dropper bottles and freeze the rest in a plastic container (which you can then thaw overnight when you are about to run out).
A 100g bag was $26, I think I made well over 6 big bottles worth. I'm not sure how many it makes since I stopped counting after that as it took me well over a year to use it up. I think I bought my first bag in Dec of 2016. I reordered in March of 2018. I'm still going strong on my that second bag. I use it in daily coffees and other random things.
HTH
Thanks for the tip!
I just got back from the store and bought the store brand liquid sucrolose, it was $3 for 200 drops/servings. Going to try it in my coffee and see how I like it 1 -
Hmmm... I wonder if I can put Mio drops in my coffee...
I don’t do a lot of treats tho I usually have 1/3 a serving of chocolate before bed.
Lately the malitol has been upsetting my tummy (or bowels, lol, YOU know) so I’m cutting that for now.
For Mother’s Day I am making a dessert using SF pudding but it’s something I don’t do often. A friend of mine have me this idea of a strawberry shortcake to make with the Magic Rolls I make every week (batch in the oven now!)
Sorry the photo posted in the middle of my post cause... phone.2 -
baconslave wrote: »
Thanks for sharing this, just watched it and thought it was really interesting! I'm not keto, but am becoming more mindful of my artificial sweetener intake. Recently went from 2-4+ cans of diet soda a day, plus several packets a day of Splenda in my coffee, to completely cutting out the diet soda. However, I've added a bit of flavored water enhancer (Crystal Light), which has aspartme (still at a reduced intake from the diet soda!).
It was interesting to see that aspartame is neutral, as is liquid sucralose ie liquid Splenda My weight loss has seemed to take care of my prediabets, but I wonder if I should be paying a bit more attention to all of this. I'm going to see if I can find liquid sucralose for my coffee and eliminate the packets of Splenda.
The best and most cost effective way to get liquid sucralose is to make it yourself. Stuff like EzSweetz is $13/bottle (last I checked) for the big bottle. I bought a few times. I then purchased pure sucralose powder (I use Bulk Supplements from Amazon).- You heat 2 cups water hot enough to dissolve.
- Add 2-3 tsp of pure sucralose powder to the water, depending on how concentrated you want it. Stir and cool.
- Add to dropper bottles and freeze the rest in a plastic container (which you can then thaw overnight when you are about to run out).
A 100g bag was $26, I think I made well over 6 big bottles worth. I'm not sure how many it makes since I stopped counting after that as it took me well over a year to use it up. I think I bought my first bag in Dec of 2016. I reordered in March of 2018. I'm still going strong on my that second bag. I use it in daily coffees and other random things.
HTH
Thanks for the tip!
I just got back from the store and bought the store brand liquid sucrolose, it was $3 for 200 drops/servings. Going to try it in my coffee and see how I like it
Man I wish my stores had that. It would save me a lot of trouble playing kitchen chemist.
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baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »
Thanks for sharing this, just watched it and thought it was really interesting! I'm not keto, but am becoming more mindful of my artificial sweetener intake. Recently went from 2-4+ cans of diet soda a day, plus several packets a day of Splenda in my coffee, to completely cutting out the diet soda. However, I've added a bit of flavored water enhancer (Crystal Light), which has aspartme (still at a reduced intake from the diet soda!).
It was interesting to see that aspartame is neutral, as is liquid sucralose ie liquid Splenda My weight loss has seemed to take care of my prediabets, but I wonder if I should be paying a bit more attention to all of this. I'm going to see if I can find liquid sucralose for my coffee and eliminate the packets of Splenda.
The best and most cost effective way to get liquid sucralose is to make it yourself. Stuff like EzSweetz is $13/bottle (last I checked) for the big bottle. I bought a few times. I then purchased pure sucralose powder (I use Bulk Supplements from Amazon).- You heat 2 cups water hot enough to dissolve.
- Add 2-3 tsp of pure sucralose powder to the water, depending on how concentrated you want it. Stir and cool.
- Add to dropper bottles and freeze the rest in a plastic container (which you can then thaw overnight when you are about to run out).
A 100g bag was $26, I think I made well over 6 big bottles worth. I'm not sure how many it makes since I stopped counting after that as it took me well over a year to use it up. I think I bought my first bag in Dec of 2016. I reordered in March of 2018. I'm still going strong on my that second bag. I use it in daily coffees and other random things.
HTH
Thanks for the tip!
I just got back from the store and bought the store brand liquid sucrolose, it was $3 for 200 drops/servings. Going to try it in my coffee and see how I like it
Man I wish my stores had that. It would save me a lot of trouble playing kitchen chemist.
This is what I bought, I'm pretty sure I only paid $3 though-I think they mark up on their online shopping option?
https://www.meijer.com/shop/en/pantry/baking/sugar-substitutes/meijer-liquid-sweetener-with-sucralose-1-68-oz/p/88692621697
They also had this, which is the brand name liquid option I guess. I'm cheap so I went with the generic lol
https://www.meijer.com/shop/en/pantry/baking/sugar-substitutes/splenda-zero-liquid-sweetener-1-68-oz/p/72277600000
eta: Meijer is a Midwest, US, chain.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »@Luciicul Not being confrontational in any way but I am a stevia user and always try to look at all angles for my own knowledge. Do you have a link to a study that shows stevia raises insulin levels?
I've done extensive research on stevia for a Nutrition Science class and if anything stevia improves our insulin sensitivity. As a diabetic I have tested myself as part of a project on stevia with a 16+ hour fast a couple times throughout the semester and my blood sugars went down rather than up.
Stevia mixed with other fillers does have the potential to have a negative effect.
I’m not aware of any studies that prove it but it’s based on the idea that insulin is secreted upon tasting sweet food in anticipation of blood sugar rise. I believe it’s called first phase insulin response.
Your experiment showing that blood sugar goes down upon using it would actually serve to suggest this theory is actually true rather than untrue, because your body would secrete insulin but have no incoming sugar to actually work upon, therefore bringing blood sugar down.
I put a small amount of whey protein powder in my coffee every morning for that very reason. It brings my BG right down if it is a bit high.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYfqvTZWilw&t=13s
