5:2 diet after bulk ( general opinion)

Yanicka1

I have been reaserching the 5:2 diet and as of now I have not found any scientific evidence that it would be detrimental. As you both know, I have been doing this a long time and would not jump on a fad diet.

I have been doing IF and done pretty well on it. I always have been a slow loser and I am at peace with that.

My main problem right now is being tired of cutting calories. Right now I am doing a fulk, enjoying life and summer, eating and drinking things for the purpose of pleasure rather than training and fat lost. I gained weight but my lifts ( that got horrible at the end of my last cut) are getting better again and going to the gym is not a chore anymore.

5:2 is appealing for me because I still get to eat at maintenance on feast days. You only fast on 2 non consecutive days and you can still eat 500 calories on those days. I am experienced with fasting and always liked the feeling of not having to think about food. I was thinking that bowl of miso soup (40 cals) would help with hunger if it come down to it. I would also drink BCAA on fasting days.

Do you have any arguments I do not know about that would make this a bad idea?

alanlmarshall

In for the fulk portmanteau. Cracked me up.

Sarauk2sf

My main 'issue' with it is getting enough protein in the 2 fasting days as well as having to time your workouts around them. Other than that, I am not aware of anything that would give me cause for concern other than adherence (which may or may not be easier, depending on the individual).

The thing I would question however, is why not cycle your calories in a less extreme way to sync with lifting and/or social events.

SideSteel

Ultimately, hitting your calories and macros with a method that gives you the best performance and adherence would be the approach to use.

What do you mean by "I'm tired of cutting calories"?

You might find better adherence and performance with a less aggressive cyclical approach if the appealing part about 5:2 is the maintenance days.

Finally, how long have you been fulking? I specifically ask because if you're still a long ways out from cutting calories, you may feel entirely different about a calorie deficit at the point you begin cutting.

As far as potential arguments that may make it a bad idea (consider, I'm not saying these are hard and fast rules, this is theoretical/opinion based stuff):

1) Potential adherence issues/food relationship issues but one could argue that 16:8 IF could promote this too as could other methods of dieting.

2) You might be able to build a case regarding body composition and nutrient timing but that's going to be somewhat theoretical IMO. Amino acid availability on the fasting day, theoretical maximum rate of fat oxidation based on available body fat stores (there's a theory that you can oxidize something like 31kal/lb of available bodyfat or something like that) and your fasting days probably exceed this significantly (what I'm getting at is loss of muscle mass on these days due to this).

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15615615/)

3) You will now require closer management of nutrient timing around training. (Gym schedule needs to closely coordinate with your feeding schedule for performance reasons).

Yanicka1

My main 'issue' with it is getting enough protein in the 2 fasting days as well as having to time your workouts around them. Other than that, I am not aware of anything that would give me cause for concern other than adherence (which may or may not be easier, depending on the individual).

The thing I would question however, is why not cycle your calories in a less extreme way to sync with lifting and/or social events.

Running a few mock fasting days in the calculator give me around 70 g of protein on those days. Since my lean mass is around 100 lbs, I find that acceptable. Protein will help with hunger. I am a bit worried to go so low carbs but I will see. As for the impact on my training, I will have to experiment to see what work.

One thing that also appeal to me is the positive impact on health markers that early reaserching seem to indicate. Coming from a family where heart disease affect women in their 40's and also having PCOS it is not negligible.

Finally , the math make sens.

Being really small my maintenance in a lot lower that you Sara for exemple. About 1800 calories when I am just lifting and about 2000 if I add cardio ...and I hate cardio. At 1800 calories - 20% = 1440 calories a day...........and I am tired of eating that low. Upping at -15 or 10%bring me no wear since such a low deficit is hard to manage since calorie counting is an estimate even when you try to be as precise as you can.

Is there anything I am forgetting and should be aware of?

Yanicka1

Ultimately, hitting your calories and macros with a method that gives you the best performance and adherence would be the approach to use.

What do you mean by "I'm tired of cutting calories"?

You might find better adherence and performance with a less aggressive cyclical approach if the appealing part about 5:2 is the maintenance days.

Finally, how long have you been fulking? I specifically ask because if you're still a long ways out from cutting calories, you may feel entirely different about a calorie deficit at the point you begin cutting.

As far as potential arguments that may make it a bad idea (consider, I'm not saying these are hard and fast rules, this is theoretical/opinion based stuff):

1) Potential adherence issues/food relationship issues but one could argue that 16:8 IF could promote this too as could other methods of dieting.

2) You might be able to build a case regarding body composition and nutrient timing but that's going to be somewhat theoretical IMO. Amino acid availability on the fasting day, theoretical maximum rate of fat oxidation based on available body fat stores (there's a theory that you can oxidize something like 31kal/lb of available bodyfat or something like that) and your fasting days probably exceed this significantly (what I'm getting at is loss of muscle mass on these days due to this).

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15615615/)

3) You will now require closer management of nutrient timing around training. (Gym schedule needs to closely coordinate with your feeding schedule for performance reasons).

Thank you for your answer.

Sarauk2sf

My main 'issue' with it is getting enough protein in the 2 fasting days as well as having to time your workouts around them. Other than that, I am not aware of anything that would give me cause for concern other than adherence (which may or may not be easier, depending on the individual).

The thing I would question however, is why not cycle your calories in a less extreme way to sync with lifting and/or social events.

Running a few mock fasting days in the calculator give me around 70 g of protein on those days. Since my lean mass is around 100 lbs, I find that acceptable. Protein will help with hunger. I am a bit worried to go so low carbs but I will see. As for the impact on my training, I will have to experiment to see what work.

One thing that also appeal to me is the positive impact on health markers that early reaserching seem to indicate. Coming from a family where heart disease affect women in their 40's and also having PCOS it is not negligible.

Finally , the math make sens.

Being really small my maintenance in a lot lower that you Sara for exemple. About 1800 calories when I am just lifting and about 2000 if I add cardio ...and I hate cardio. At 1800 calories - 20% = 1440 calories a day...........and I am tired of eating that low. Upping at -15 or 10%bring me no wear since such a low deficit is hard to manage since calorie counting is an estimate even when you try to be as precise as you can.

Is there anything I am forgetting and should be aware of?

I am not discounting the studies, and I may well not be aware of more recent ones, but all of the studies I have seen compare non CR v CR with fasting. CR in itself improves certain health markers. I would be interested in studies that compare CR, but between 'normal' timing and 5:2. I have asked on the forums but have yet to be provided with any. To be clear, I am not saying that it does not exist, but I am skeptical (as is my nature to be) of the claims made.

I hear you re the low calories. However, my point was why limit to 500 calories a day on fasting days.

Using example math (and for illustrative purposes only), if your preferred intake is say 1,500 a day, which = 10,500 per week, then you could eat to 1,200 on 3 non lifting days and 1,725 on lifting days. Or even haircut those numbers so you have a higher day once a week.

I suppose I am just not convinced of the benefit of being at the 'magic' 500 calorie number for the reasons I and SideSteel point out.

As I like math, and using the point that SideSteel was making, if your TDEE is 1,800 and your deficit is 1,300 for the day - using the theoretical maximum fat oxidation, you will 'need' 42g of fat before 'hitting' muscle. I am not saying that this will happen, but it is a consideration that needs to be made.

Now, this is all a bit of mental *kitten* as foods are not absorbed and utilized immediately, however, this caveat will also hold true for any possible alleged benefits outside adherence for doing 5:2. You also have more acute considerations of nutrient absorption.

Yanicka1

Thank you to both of you for your inputs. I have 2 weeks and a lot more research before I start my cut.

Sarauk2sf

Locking so we can track active threads better. If you have further questions, please PM me, and include a link to this thread and I will unlock so you can pose them.