Tom Venuto's TNB Workout

Lyadeia

Just curious what you guys thought about this particular lifting program as it pertains to aesthetics? I'm sure you could tweak it for other goals like strength, but it is meant for bodybuilders to get a balanced physique for visual purposes, not for training for other sports, etc.

I found it on Tom's website, but you have to be a member of it to get to that page. I did find it here, though:

http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/new-bodybuilding-workout

It's basically an upper/lower split with varying rep ranges and weight. On Tom's website, he talks about tweaking things like swapping out certain exercises (for example, on the upper days instead of dumbbell neutral grip presses I would do standing OHP since it isn't in the program elsewhere).

I'm still cutting, so would it be better to wait until I am bulking to do this, or do you not even like the program? Just curious what you guys think before I try it out. I am currently doing something similar to Wendler's...similar only in the fact that the exercise choices are the same and that I start out with 3x5 and do accessory lifts for 4x10, other than that I have been doing linear progression with the 3x5 instead of the 5/3/1 as laid out (saving that for bulking since I think it would be best to eat more when doing that program).

SideSteel

Does he have the entire workout listed on one page instead of having 1 exercise per slide and 4 workouts all on separate tabs?

Lyadeia

He does on his website, but I think you have to be a member of his Inner Circle to get to it. I can copy and paste after dinner.

Lyadeia

This was copied and pasted straight from Tom's website. It's part of a much larger article, but this will show you the exercises, reps, rest periods, etc. as well as Tom V's brief description of the program cycle:

Workout 1: Monday Upper Strength/Hypertrophy

A. Barbell Rows, pronated 5 sets X 5-6 reps 150-180 sec rest (P)
B. Chin Ups (supinated) eccentric emphasis (5 second negative) 3 X 6-8 120 sec rest (P)
C. Bench press BB 5 sets X 5-6 reps, 150-180 sec rest (P)
D. Wide Grip (or V-Bar) Gironda Dips 3 X 8-10 reps, 90-sec rest
E. Standing DB Shoulder press Neutral Grip 3 sets X 8-10 reps, 90-sec rest
F1. Tricep Pushdown (cable) 2-3 sets X 8-10 reps, 0 rest (superset)
F2. Barbell Curls 2-3 sets X 8-10 reps, 60 seconds rest

Workout 2: Tuesday, Lower body, Abs, Strength/Hypertrophy

A. Squat 5 sets X 5-6 reps, 150-180 sec rest (P)
B. Romanian Deadlift 5 sets X 5-6 reps, 150-180 sec rest (P)
C. Barbell Dynamic Lunges 3 sets X 8-12 reps, 90-120 sec rest
D. Seated Calf Raise 3 X 15-20 reps, 60 sec rest
E1. Hanging Leg Raise 2-3 X 10-15 (knee ups instead if straight leg too difficult) 0 rest (superset)
E2. Swiss ball crunch 2-3 X 12-15 (P) 0 rest (superset)
E3. bicycle crunch 2-3 X 12-15

Workout 3: Thursday Upper, hypertrophy

A. Barbell Rows, supinated 3 sets X 8-12 reps, 90 sec rest (P)
B. Straight arm pulldowns 3 sets X 8-12 reps, 60-seconds rest
C. Bench press BB 3 sets X 8-12 reps, 90 sec rest (P)
D. Incline DB Flyes 3 sets X 8-12 reps, 60 sec rest
E1. Bent Over DB lateral raises 2-3 sets X 8-12 reps 0 rest (superset)
E2. Lateral raises 2-3 sets X 8-12 reps, 60 sec rest
F1. Narrow grip tricep dips 2-3 sets X 8-12 reps, 0 rest (superset) (P)
F2. Incline DB curls 2-3 sets X 8-12 reps, 60 sec rest

Workout 4: Saturday lower, abs, hypertrophy

A. Squat 3 sets X 8-12 reps, 1 X 20, 90-120 sec rest (P)
B. Romanian Deadlift 3 sets X 8-12 reps, 1 X 20, 90-120 sec rest (P)
C. Bulgarian Split squats, eccentric emphasis (5 sec negative) 3 X 8-12
D. One leg hyperextension 3 sets X 8-12 reps
E. Standing Calf Raise 3 sets X 15-20 reps, 60 sec rest
F1. Russian twists 3 sets X 15-20 reps, 0 rest (superset)
F2. One arm plank hold 3 sets X 60 seconds+, 60 sec rest (P)

The 4 week periodization cycle

This is a 4 week program with within-week changes in rep ranges and weekly progression in load and intensiveness. Weekly workouts alternate between strength-hypertrophy days with a mix of heavy sets of 5-6 reps and hypertrophy reps with 8-12 reps and hypertrophy only days. You will progress through 4 one-week cycles as follows:

Week 1: Introductory loading. In the first week you will be introduced to the new exercises and training techniques. Loads will be submaximal. For example, if you estimate that you can do 10 reps with 100 lbs, you would select 90 pounds. The intensiveness level is low, which means you will not take any sets to failure.

Week 2: Base loading. In the second week, you will increase the load to maximal levels. The intensiveness level will be high, which means you will come close to failure on your hypertrophy sets.

Week 3: Overloading. In the third week, you will increase the loading again to above your previous max, wherever this is possible, while maintaining good form. Your goal is to start hitting beat the previous week's bests. You will probably hit failure on some of your sets.

Week 4: Shock loading. In the fourth week, you will once again increase the load above the previous week's bests, and aim to hit some personal bests. You will take most of your sets to failure and you may miss some reps (you may hit only 3 or 4 reps on some of your strength sets). You may also go beyond failure on some of your exercises by using high intensity techniques such as drop sets or forced reps if you have a training partner.

Week 5: begin new cycle. In the fifth week, you can repeat the cycle if you choose, by starting over again with introductory loading (submaximal load and no sets taken to failure). At this point you will be stronger, so your introductory phase will be equal to your previous base loading week or even the overloading week.

Sarauk2sf

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SkimFlatWhite68

Am interested in Sara and Side Steels reply to this one.

NinjadURbacon

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Lyadeia

48 hour bump

SideSteel

Here's my initial thoughts, subject to change as I'm learning more about program design.

1) It loosely reminds me of PHAT, only volume isn't quite as insane on this.
2) If I'm counting right, the pushes outnumber the pulls. That's not necessarily a good thing but it's not even 6am and maybe I'm counting wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
3) I'd also question the need for using two exercise "slots" (for lack of a better term) on supersetting different lateral raise movements. I'd also not want to do exhaustive shoulder supersetting and follow it with dips, even if it is narrow grip. That doesn't seem like a good recipe.
4) I'd consider a horizontally loaded direct glute exercise somewhere in there, IMO.

The program "reads" very complicated but I'm sure in practice it's not as complicated as it looks when you read it. You would want to know exactly how to handle the progression. It's listed in the comments regarding periodization but in practice this can become difficult if you don't know precisely how much to increase loading by.

I question labeling intensity as "low" if your 10rm is 100lbs and you select 90lbs. Seems to imply that if it's not failure, it's low intensity.

I would also view this as an advanced routine.

SideSteel

Just curious what you guys thought about this particular lifting program as it pertains to aesthetics? I'm sure you could tweak it for other goals like strength, but it is meant for bodybuilders to get a balanced physique for visual purposes, not for training for other sports, etc.

I found it on Tom's website, but you have to be a member of it to get to that page. I did find it here, though:

http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/new-bodybuilding-workout

It's basically an upper/lower split with varying rep ranges and weight. On Tom's website, he talks about tweaking things like swapping out certain exercises (for example, on the upper days instead of dumbbell neutral grip presses I would do standing OHP since it isn't in the program elsewhere).

I'm still cutting, so would it be better to wait until I am bulking to do this, or do you not even like the program? Just curious what you guys think before I try it out. I am currently doing something similar to Wendler's...similar only in the fact that the exercise choices are the same and that I start out with 3x5 and do accessory lifts for 4x10, other than that I have been doing linear progression with the 3x5 instead of the 5/3/1 as laid out (saving that for bulking since I think it would be best to eat more when doing that program).

I realize I didn't address your other questions, I just gave my general observations about the program.

Regarding cutting/bulking -- I would not go from 5/3/1 to this program in the middle of an energy deficit. I think that's a mistake assuming that this routine increases your training volume significantly.

If you are still making progress using a linear progression model (your lifts are rising) I would stay with a linear progression model. When you stop making gains on a linear program I'd consider other alternatives that may provide a better balance between strength and hypertrophy (example would be taking 5/3/1 and modifying the accessory exercises and total training volume).

If you are more hypertrophy focused, Lyle's GBR might be a good fit too (I've always wanted to try this but I'm in love with 5/3/1).

http://www.jcdfitness.com/2009/01/lyle-mcdonalds-bulking-routine/
http://www.jcdfitness.com/wp-content/download/Lyle_McDonald_Generic_Bulking_Routine_FAQ.pdf

Lyadeia

Thanks, SideSteel! I will save this one for later when I start bulking and continue with what I am doing until then. I'll look up that other program as well, just in case I get bored with what I am doing now. I like the way 5/3/1 is set-up, but doing it in a linear progression way changes the feel of it (IMHO) and makes you get bored easier. I just wanted to save the "actual" 5/3/1 for bulking.

SideSteel

Thanks, SideSteel! I will save this one for later when I start bulking and continue with what I am doing until then. I'll look up that other program as well, just in case I get bored with what I am doing now. I like the way 5/3/1 is set-up, but doing it in a linear progression way changes the feel of it (IMHO) and makes you get bored easier. I just wanted to save the "actual" 5/3/1 for bulking.

If you are getting bored I'd consider swapping out a lot of your accessory work just for variety sake. Not for "muscle confusionlol" but just to create some variety and hopefully put some interest back into your training.

I guess my overall point is that it should be fun.

Lyadeia

Yeah, I don't do that muscle confusion crap, I just don't want to get bored. :laugh:

Lyadeia

I checked out the other program from Lyle McDonald and really like the looks of that one. I think I might be giving that one a try within the next couple of weeks, only I will be doing what the FAQ says and reducing the volume. I plan on keeping the frequency the same, though. Then, when I move into bulking in the winter (I am hoping my body fat will be low enough at that point) I will increase the volume on that one and perhaps keep the TNB in mind for when I want something different. I love 5/3/1, but I want to save that one for later and work on upper/lower splits right now before I get back into the more differentiated body part split. I simply detest full body workouts at this point, but while cutting, further body part splits seems nearly pointless since...and correct me if I am wrong...aren't they used more for gaining mass since the volume is generally a lot higher per body part for that purpose?

Anyway, I'm starting to babble...basically my plan is the reduced version of Lyle's workout first, then change it to TNB maybe early next year to increase both mass and strength (but I will probably swap things around to even out push/pull like you mentioned before), and when I want to switch it up again I will move to 5/3/1. Does that sound like a decent plan? I'm thinking I will cut until November or so and then start my bulk around the holidays (perfect timing to eat more anyway).