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Discussion on Cravings
NovusDies
Posts: 8,940 Member
While I encourage people to deal with their cravings as much as they can moderate it is also important, in my opinion, to occasionally ask the question "What happens if I don't satisfy a craving?" and remain "in charge."
I think it is natural to seek pleasure and avoid pain or in this case unpleasantness. But we are not not allowed to satisfy every whim. We can't have sex with anyone we want. We can't take whatever we want. We manage to survive all of these cravings and, in time, diminish them.
We live in places that currently have an over abundance of food. It is shocking how much is wasted. We can have most anything we want and the things we really like to eat are often easily affordable. So food is one of the few things we can use to seek pleasure consistently. We even go so far as to call it unfair when some people seemingly are able to eat more than we are allowed. Food can become an outlet for the pent up frustration we feel suppressing other types of cravings.
In reading that last sentence even I am sitting here thinking that in the light of everything that doesn't seem so bad. Of course then I remember I gained more than twice my healthy body weight allowing food to be easy access pleasure outlet and in doing so cost myself way too much of other pleasure.
So when a craving happens it can be very intense. In my experience the intensity increases if I have regularly practiced instant gratification. It can seem overwhelming and it can feel like a state of emergency. I even want to help it along by thinking if I am craving a burger it must mean I need it for some reason... maybe I am low on iron. Obviously there are times our body does crave food for a specific reasons but most of the time it is because we have seen it either in person or advertised, smelled it, or engaged in a activity that is closely connected to it. I can't stand the intense sweetness of coca-cola now but when I am mowing the yard I find myself craving one - until I remember that drinking it would be like dumping sugar in my mouth.
What we do not always remember is that sometimes the inconvenience of satisfying a craving puts the situation into negotiation mode. It might go something like this:
Craving: Reeses PB Cup
Situation: None in the house
Negotiation: Even though I should be working my schedule is not that tight today. I could run to the store. I have a twenty in my wallet which would speed up the process. However, I am tired from walking this morning. I really do not want to put my shoes back on just yet. I really just want to rest in my chair for a bit and work. I could do it later if I still want some.
The reason why this hypothetical craving was easy to dismiss was because my desire to just sit here and physically rest while I work is stronger.
However, I also believe it is because I do not have any in the house. If I had one in the kitchen the craving would be stronger. If I had one in reach the craving would be even higher.
What does all that mean?
All cravings are negotiable. The unpleasantness of a craving is temporary and can overridden IF we take ourselves out of autopilot.
Our mind is like a train station. Thoughts come in, they may linger for a bit, then they leave. We can be an observer instead of a passenger. When a craving appears for a Reeses cup I can think of the experience of the craving instead of just acting on it. I can even acknowledge that it may cause some temporary unpleasantness to deny myself. I can focus on the balance I am creating of denying this small thing to gain much more.
What I will not do is immediately satisfy the craving even if I have it in my calorie budget. I will let it sit and wither for a bit.
For me the answer to what happens if I do not satisfy the craving is better awareness, less cravings, and more control. WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS:
1) I am eating enough calories overall
2) It is not compounding an already rough patch of misery
3) I compromise by satisfying a lot of my cravings or even better try to anticipate them and eat treat food in advance.
The above is not offered as fact. These are my opinions, opinions I have learned from others, and my experience. As always, your mileage may vary.
I think it is natural to seek pleasure and avoid pain or in this case unpleasantness. But we are not not allowed to satisfy every whim. We can't have sex with anyone we want. We can't take whatever we want. We manage to survive all of these cravings and, in time, diminish them.
We live in places that currently have an over abundance of food. It is shocking how much is wasted. We can have most anything we want and the things we really like to eat are often easily affordable. So food is one of the few things we can use to seek pleasure consistently. We even go so far as to call it unfair when some people seemingly are able to eat more than we are allowed. Food can become an outlet for the pent up frustration we feel suppressing other types of cravings.
In reading that last sentence even I am sitting here thinking that in the light of everything that doesn't seem so bad. Of course then I remember I gained more than twice my healthy body weight allowing food to be easy access pleasure outlet and in doing so cost myself way too much of other pleasure.
So when a craving happens it can be very intense. In my experience the intensity increases if I have regularly practiced instant gratification. It can seem overwhelming and it can feel like a state of emergency. I even want to help it along by thinking if I am craving a burger it must mean I need it for some reason... maybe I am low on iron. Obviously there are times our body does crave food for a specific reasons but most of the time it is because we have seen it either in person or advertised, smelled it, or engaged in a activity that is closely connected to it. I can't stand the intense sweetness of coca-cola now but when I am mowing the yard I find myself craving one - until I remember that drinking it would be like dumping sugar in my mouth.
What we do not always remember is that sometimes the inconvenience of satisfying a craving puts the situation into negotiation mode. It might go something like this:
Craving: Reeses PB Cup
Situation: None in the house
Negotiation: Even though I should be working my schedule is not that tight today. I could run to the store. I have a twenty in my wallet which would speed up the process. However, I am tired from walking this morning. I really do not want to put my shoes back on just yet. I really just want to rest in my chair for a bit and work. I could do it later if I still want some.
The reason why this hypothetical craving was easy to dismiss was because my desire to just sit here and physically rest while I work is stronger.
However, I also believe it is because I do not have any in the house. If I had one in the kitchen the craving would be stronger. If I had one in reach the craving would be even higher.
What does all that mean?
All cravings are negotiable. The unpleasantness of a craving is temporary and can overridden IF we take ourselves out of autopilot.
Our mind is like a train station. Thoughts come in, they may linger for a bit, then they leave. We can be an observer instead of a passenger. When a craving appears for a Reeses cup I can think of the experience of the craving instead of just acting on it. I can even acknowledge that it may cause some temporary unpleasantness to deny myself. I can focus on the balance I am creating of denying this small thing to gain much more.
What I will not do is immediately satisfy the craving even if I have it in my calorie budget. I will let it sit and wither for a bit.
For me the answer to what happens if I do not satisfy the craving is better awareness, less cravings, and more control. WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS:
1) I am eating enough calories overall
2) It is not compounding an already rough patch of misery
3) I compromise by satisfying a lot of my cravings or even better try to anticipate them and eat treat food in advance.
The above is not offered as fact. These are my opinions, opinions I have learned from others, and my experience. As always, your mileage may vary.
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Replies
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Great post, especially on not giving your cravings immediate gratification and all things in moderation. I like the idea of sitting back and asking myself why I am craving that item and then making myself wait until later. If I'm still craving it, then I can budget it in, enjoy it, and move on, but many times cravings will go away with time. And you are very much right that its a whole lot easier to ignore a craving when the item is not on hand, and I've learned because of that to not keep certain things in my house because I know that if those items are there, I'm not going to be able to deny myself.
And I've learned to cut a portion down - so I'm craving a little Debbie fudge round. The convenience store sells the big ones at 350 calories for a serving. Okay - but do I really need to eat the whole thing to satisfy the craving? No - so if I have someone along with me and I decide I want that fudge round, what I can do is share it with that other person, thereby satisfying my craving and only having to count half the calories. That's the same reason I go to McDonald's and only order 1 chocolate chip cookie. 1 cookie will satisfy the craving, and if I get 2, I'm going to eat both. So I compromise with myself, keep within my budget, and enjoy the cookie!
IT is nice, though, to see that there are things in my life that used to give me much trouble that don't bother me much any more - practice in denying or delaying that craving has helped moderate them to the point where the cravings are easily ignored. For instance: someone bringing donuts into the work place, especially custard filled ones. Used to be I'd never be able to avoid them, but now, after a couple years of practice, they don't tempt me any more. I don't think they taste all that great and my desire for them has been greatly muted. There are still some things that even time hasn't tamped down (chocolate chip cookies, for example lol) but time for me has been a great aid in bringing myself under control!2 -
My system- Is it a craving or is it an urge?
I certainly wasn’t thinking about donuts when I got to the office this morning but here they are. This is an urge. I’m not going to derail my plan because someone decided office donuts was a good idea. What I decided to do was lose weight and I have a plan for that today. My treat comes later. I had breakfast. I’m not actually hungry. Just get past reception and keep on trucking to start work. This will pass.
After dinner- one of those chocolate donuts sure would be good right now. Hmmm.
Next day AM- Gee, I wonder if someone brought donuts today? Later- Nope. Just as well.
Day after- I wonder if there’s a line at the donut shop?
OK. This is now a craving. It’s day 3 and I’m still thinking donuts. The best way to deal with a craving is to try to satisfy it. How? How many calories in a donut? That many? Really? Huh. Plan for it. Can I get by on a half? Freeze other half? Throw it away? Gotta have a plan.
So that’s it- resist an urge, satisfy a craving. But it takes time to tell the difference- about 3 days for me. Also, in general, delay can be a helpful strategy. What if I crave donuts and pizza in the same time period? One has to go to the back of the line. But knowing that pizza is coming once I’ve banked the calories helps.2 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »Great post, especially on not giving your cravings immediate gratification and all things in moderation. I like the idea of sitting back and asking myself why I am craving that item and then making myself wait until later. If I'm still craving it, then I can budget it in, enjoy it, and move on, but many times cravings will go away with time. And you are very much right that its a whole lot easier to ignore a craving when the item is not on hand, and I've learned because of that to not keep certain things in my house because I know that if those items are there, I'm not going to be able to deny myself.
And I've learned to cut a portion down - so I'm craving a little Debbie fudge round. The convenience store sells the big ones at 350 calories for a serving. Okay - but do I really need to eat the whole thing to satisfy the craving? No - so if I have someone along with me and I decide I want that fudge round, what I can do is share it with that other person, thereby satisfying my craving and only having to count half the calories. That's the same reason I go to McDonald's and only order 1 chocolate chip cookie. 1 cookie will satisfy the craving, and if I get 2, I'm going to eat both. So I compromise with myself, keep within my budget, and enjoy the cookie!
IT is nice, though, to see that there are things in my life that used to give me much trouble that don't bother me much any more - practice in denying or delaying that craving has helped moderate them to the point where the cravings are easily ignored. For instance: someone bringing donuts into the work place, especially custard filled ones. Used to be I'd never be able to avoid them, but now, after a couple years of practice, they don't tempt me any more. I don't think they taste all that great and my desire for them has been greatly muted. There are still some things that even time hasn't tamped down (chocolate chip cookies, for example lol) but time for me has been a great aid in bringing myself under control!
Right.
The part I didn't cover properly was that each person has to find their own balance and method. Sometimes total abstinence for a period of time or indefinitely. In other instances it can be a small portion more often. Still other may be a very large portion very rarely. In my experience one tactic will not work across the board. I eat pizza less often but in large portion. I abstained from eating Reeses PB cups and Jerky for almost a year (I can now moderate them), and I can eat very small servings of potato chips and other salty snacks.1 -
My system- Is it a craving or is it an urge?
I certainly wasn’t thinking about donuts when I got to the office this morning but here they are. This is an urge. I’m not going to derail my plan because someone decided office donuts was a good idea. What I decided to do was lose weight and I have a plan for that today. My treat comes later. I had breakfast. I’m not actually hungry. Just get past reception and keep on trucking to start work. This will pass.
After dinner- one of those chocolate donuts sure would be good right now. Hmmm.
Next day AM- Gee, I wonder if someone brought donuts today? Later- Nope. Just as well.
Day after- I wonder if there’s a line at the donut shop?
OK. This is now a craving. It’s day 3 and I’m still thinking donuts. The best way to deal with a craving is to try to satisfy it. How? How many calories in a donut? That many? Really? Huh. Plan for it. Can I get by on a half? Freeze other half? Throw it away? Gotta have a plan.
So that’s it- resist an urge, satisfy a craving. But it takes time to tell the difference- about 3 days for me. Also, in general, delay can be a helpful strategy. What if I crave donuts and pizza in the same time period? One has to go to the back of the line. But knowing that pizza is coming once I’ve banked the calories helps.
Any craving that reappears after 24 hours is one that I will consider a higher priority. I don't always believe it is a physical need but it may be a mental need.
I am going to think about your urge vs craving distinction some more.1 -
I have three types of cravings.
1. Candy. Jujuyfruits, gummybears, etc.. Currently a hard No. I told myself I wouldn't eat candy until my sugar was in control. My first appointment post stopping medication is in August. However, I may extend it to goal weight. I'm afraid of candy.
2. Pop (Soda) - Another hard No, except I will have a diet cherry coke , not more than two per week. I do this more at work, probably stress drinking.
3. Cheeseburgers/pizza/something savory - usually I can think of something just as good I have at home, if the craving lasts a few days I tell myself I can have it on the weekend (in a few day) and if I still want it on the allotted day I get it.
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I love this topic....I am not sure if I have urges or cravings!...most likely it is urges...I do like instant gratification and I am OCD about many things...I don’t wash my hands a thousand times or stuff that I think is over the top but I do like things in order; my pantry and cabinets,my clothes sorted in the closet,books in alphabetical order on the shelves, towels and linens folded a certain way...oh Hell, maybe I AM over the top...when I read this it looks like I am!...if things aren’t perfect they are not as good as they should be...that is one of the many reasons why if I screw up my eating for one meal or one day, I need to quit and start over the next day or the next month!...I try to make every day perfect and if I make a mistake, I feel like I have failed...( only child syndrome?)...
I think I am finally learning that when I have an urge or a craving for a certain type of food,I can work to control it...i do not have to give in to my inner voice that tells me to eat!...I am on a good streak presently with no urges or cravings...we always have junk food in the house but if I am on a roll, it doesn’t bother me...if the food I want isn’t in the house and I have a binge coming on, I would get in the car and go get the food I want...actually in “ binge mode”, it really doesn’t matter what I am eating....I just stuff it in...any food is fair game...and I eat until I am physically sick...I would be ashamed to tell some of the concoctions I have consumed or the amounts when I am in a mood....nothing satisfies me or fills me up until I am past the point of no return....then I am racked by guilt and remorse...wondering what possessed me to eat so much...
I eat when I am happy,sad,sick,stressed,if the sun is out or it’s raining!....I like pizza,candy,cookies,cakes,pies,subs,pasta,donuts,cheesecake,etc...I never drink regular sodas...always diet!...I seldom eat chips unless I am on a binge and they are handy!...fast food doesn’t do a thing for me but on a binge I have been known to hit 2 or 3 places in a couple of hours...eating in the car and driving from place to place,..( picturing Cruella d Ville searching for the puppies)
I am definitely a work in progress!0 -
conniewilkins56 wrote: »I love this topic....I am not sure if I have urges or cravings!...most likely it is urges...I do like instant gratification and I am OCD about many things...I don’t wash my hands a thousand times or stuff that I think is over the top but I do like things in order; my pantry and cabinets,my clothes sorted in the closet,books in alphabetical order on the shelves, towels and linens folded a certain way...oh Hell, maybe I AM over the top...when I read this it looks like I am!...if things aren’t perfect they are not as good as they should be...that is one of the many reasons why if I screw up my eating for one meal or one day, I need to quit and start over the next day or the next month!...I try to make every day perfect and if I make a mistake, I feel like I have failed...( only child syndrome?)...
I think I am finally learning that when I have an urge or a craving for a certain type of food,I can work to control it...i do not have to give in to my inner voice that tells me to eat!...I am on a good streak presently with no urges or cravings...we always have junk food in the house but if I am on a roll, it doesn’t bother me...if the food I want isn’t in the house and I have a binge coming on, I would get in the car and go get the food I want...actually in “ binge mode”, it really doesn’t matter what I am eating....I just stuff it in...any food is fair game...and I eat until I am physically sick...I would be ashamed to tell some of the concoctions I have consumed or the amounts when I am in a mood....nothing satisfies me or fills me up until I am past the point of no return....then I am racked by guilt and remorse...wondering what possessed me to eat so much...
I eat when I am happy,sad,sick,stressed,if the sun is out or it’s raining!....I like pizza,candy,cookies,cakes,pies,subs,pasta,donuts,cheesecake,etc...I never drink regular sodas...always diet!...I seldom eat chips unless I am on a binge and they are handy!...fast food doesn’t do a thing for me but on a binge I have been known to hit 2 or 3 places in a couple of hours...eating in the car and driving from place to place,..( picturing Cruella d Ville searching for the puppies)
I am definitely a work in progress!
I am not comfortable diving too far into the true binge pool but something jumps out at me. If a binge is started after you have gone from a perfect day to an imperfect day how do you determine imperfection? Food and counting calories is messy so it seems to me it would have to be a personal definition. If that is the case can you write a new definition that is much more relaxed?
I remember one of your latest binges started with going out to eat. I might be misremembering the details but I think you ate more of an appetizer than you originally intended and then it got away from you after that. So in that moment I am assuming you can't change the rule about the amount because you had an objective and it was already exceeded but what if your objective had started being much more flexible or more vague? Something like "I would prefer to stay in my calories but my rule is not to greatly exceed my maintenance calories for the day."
It seems to me that if that is possible it would always be better to have a rule that allows for more intentional action than one that can be easily broken and cause unintentional action.
Forgive my stupidity if what I am saying is stupid. This is not an area I really understand. It, as I said, was what jumped out at me.
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I need to think about this for a little while...1
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My thoughts and behaviors are almost identical to 88olds. Back in the day, I had a WW leader talk about urges vs cravings, and she also defined an urge as short-lived and a craving as a longer-lived thing. And then I picked up the waiting strategy in a book. It recommended that when you think you want something, tell yourself you can have it, but later. Often, the desire for that thing just fades. I'd also say that it takes me about 3 days to really decide if something is a craving.1
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conniewilkins56 wrote: »I need to think about this for a little while...
Think about it but if you think there is an experiment worth trying don't do it until you feel comfortable enough to give yourself permission for it not to go well. I am hoping that day comes for you because I think managing it better will require some experimenting which will come with risk. There is also therapy but you have never mentioned whether or not you were open to it.1 -
bobsburgersfan wrote: »My thoughts and behaviors are almost identical to 88olds. Back in the day, I had a WW leader talk about urges vs cravings, and she also defined an urge as short-lived and a craving as a longer-lived thing. And then I picked up the waiting strategy in a book. It recommended that when you think you want something, tell yourself you can have it, but later. Often, the desire for that thing just fades. I'd also say that it takes me about 3 days to really decide if something is a craving.
I have read that more of your brain is activated in wanting than getting. It seems to me that if you do not delay gratification you could confuse the two into thinking it is all one feeling. You will file that away as a learned response and keep wanting to repeat it until a habit forms and it you are doing it on autopilot.1 -
conniewilkins56 wrote: »I need to think about this for a little while...
Think about it but if you think there is an experiment worth trying don't do it until you feel comfortable enough to give yourself permission for it not to go well. I am hoping that day comes for you because I think managing it better will require some experimenting which will come with risk. There is also therapy but you have never mentioned whether or not you were open to it.
I am open to therapy and have in fact gone to counseling for my eating disorder more than once....I was not really impressed with either of the sessions or the reasoning for my binging disorder...it was a
“ bandage” fix and never a permanent solution...after a year of appointments, I had not lost any weight, didn’t like the doctor any longer, and refused to put all of the blame on my parents for my excess weight!
I have mentioned going on a “ diet break “ the end of this month for two weeks and I think it will really be a good experience and learning tool for me...I have never stayed on an eating plan this long...I have never thought of eating maintenance for any length of time while having more weight to lose..( I either diet, or I don’t )...I am very encouraged reading about Bmeadows and Novus details of their breaks DURING weight loss...this idea still is a little mind boggling for me and I realize there are risks involved....I have only had a few binges this year compared to what I was doing to my body before MFP...and I want to be successful and learn everything I can about myself, my habits, and how to keep the weight off permanently this time...I think I am ready for this experiment ( test? ).... if I don’t think the maintenance is going right or if I can’t control myself,I will stop and put it on hold until I am ok to try it again...and yes, I am a little afraid but I think being able to do this successfully will be a huge boost for me...
I think the perception of what perfection is would be different for each of us.....a perfect day dieting for me would be logging, weighing and measuring and eating with no mistakes or overeating...the meals prepared and presented as appealing and delicious as possible...if I eat a bite over or forget to log something then it isn’t perfect...in my mind, I have ruined the day...I might as well eat what I want and start over again the next day....imperfection would be something not up to my standard of perfection...once I was reprimanding an employee for not cleaning a piece of equipment properly and she told me that we both had different perceptions of what cleanliness was...
I still need to become more flexible with many things in my life...I am a lot more flexible than I was years ago...time changes so many things in our lives...it is hard for me to let go “just a little bit“...I like to be in control... If you are going to do something, you should do it right...if you are playing a game, your goal is to win...I am learning to enjoy the game and winning isn’t everything!...but I still want to win!...
No, you are not stupid, nor do you sound stupid...you are wiser than I am...I sound like a lunatic lol...btw my husband is a saint and both of our kids think I am nuts!1 -
conniewilkins56 wrote: »conniewilkins56 wrote: »I need to think about this for a little while...
Think about it but if you think there is an experiment worth trying don't do it until you feel comfortable enough to give yourself permission for it not to go well. I am hoping that day comes for you because I think managing it better will require some experimenting which will come with risk. There is also therapy but you have never mentioned whether or not you were open to it.
I am open to therapy and have in fact gone to counseling for my eating disorder more than once....I was not really impressed with either of the sessions or the reasoning for my binging disorder...it was a
“ bandage” fix and never a permanent solution...after a year of appointments, I had not lost any weight, didn’t like the doctor any longer, and refused to put all of the blame on my parents for my excess weight!
I have mentioned going on a “ diet break “ the end of this month for two weeks and I think it will really be a good experience and learning tool for me...I have never stayed on an eating plan this long...I have never thought of eating maintenance for any length of time while having more weight to lose..( I either diet, or I don’t )...I am very encouraged reading about Bmeadows and Novus details of their breaks DURING weight loss...this idea still is a little mind boggling for me and I realize there are risks involved....I have only had a few binges this year compared to what I was doing to my body before MFP...and I want to be successful and learn everything I can about myself, my habits, and how to keep the weight off permanently this time...I think I am ready for this experiment ( test? ).... if I don’t think the maintenance is going right or if I can’t control myself,I will stop and put it on hold until I am ok to try it again...and yes, I am a little afraid but I think being able to do this successfully will be a huge boost for me...
I think the perception of what perfection is would be different for each of us.....a perfect day dieting for me would be logging, weighing and measuring and eating with no mistakes or overeating...the meals prepared and presented as appealing and delicious as possible...if I eat a bite over or forget to log something then it isn’t perfect...in my mind, I have ruined the day...I might as well eat what I want and start over again the next day....imperfection would be something not up to my standard of perfection...once I was reprimanding an employee for not cleaning a piece of equipment properly and she told me that we both had different perceptions of what cleanliness was...
I still need to become more flexible with many things in my life...I am a lot more flexible than I was years ago...time changes so many things in our lives...it is hard for me to let go “just a little bit“...I like to be in control... If you are going to do something, you should do it right...if you are playing a game, your goal is to win...I am learning to enjoy the game and winning isn’t everything!...but I still want to win!...
No, you are not stupid, nor do you sound stupid...you are wiser than I am...I sound like a lunatic lol...btw my husband is a saint and both of our kids think I am nuts!
We all sound like lunatics here and there so that must be what normal really is.
If one of your goals is to win you are DEFINITELY winning. As is the case in many games it doesn't matter if the wrong team scores a little it only matter if you score the most and your weight loss proves you are scoring the most.
You are also showing yourself to be very flexible and I am pleased you are ready to try maintenance knowing it might go the wrong way. It shows you are climbing to higher ground and seeing the potential outcomes below you and more objectively.
You have given me many ideas to suggest but I want to start with the idea of "ruining the day."
Thoughts are not facts. They are opinions. They can be helpful or a hindrance. There are different approaches to dealing with them but I wonder if you would be willing to try and dispute this one.
So can you challenge that notion?
Let's say you eat your lunch but then realize you forgot to weigh your food before you started eating it. This happens to me at least once every 3 months or so.
Is the day ruined?
What evidence do you have that the day is ruined? What evidence do you have against it?
But even if we assume the day can no longer be perfect why does that mean making it as imperfect as possible? If your car gets a single flat tire do you stick a knife in the other 3?
If you want me to shut up at any time about this subject just say the word. I will not take it personally.
Thanks for the compliment on wisdom. I have been intrigued by wisdom and sought it since I was very young. The most important thing I have learned is that the wisest person is still capable of the most foolish thoughts and actions.
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Wisdom's value is above rubies, but yup; humans are flawed and even the wisest can do stupid stuff. Solomon's end wasn't exactly wise; he certainly didn't seem to heed his own advice!
I consider being called wise and someone of character two of the biggest compliments a person can receive!
@conniewilkins56
You've come a long way yourself! Knowing you have an issue is the most vital step in dealing with it; you can't fix what you won't admit is broken.
Perfectionism I understand; I fight the guilt associated with not measuring up to some personal, impossible standard myself built up over the years through my world view, the things I was taught, or rather, how I perceived the things I was being taught through example, instruction, and through what I surrounded myself with and saturated my mind with. I've never done counseling either, though I could probably benefit from it; however, while I've seen some counselor's information hitting the nail squarely on the head when it comes to some of the deep seated roots of my self view, their solutions to dealing with those issues have never worked at all for me. Positive thinking doesn't drown out the internal criticism that dwells in the deep parts of my heart.
I will say that my parents did have a part to play in my perfectionist tendencies; my mother's seemingly (what I saw and heard) dismissal of what I accomplished when I was in hearing, her constant pointing out where I messed up (whenever I played for the church in my youth, I'd be horribly nervous so made mistakes, but I'd finish playing feeling like I wasn't too bad only to have mom tell me "that was wonderful - you only made 6 mistakes!" Now I know that she was trying to be encouraging, but for someone with self criticism issues even at a young age, all I heard was "you failed" which further reinforced my poor self image, something I don't believe my mother realized she was doing). She also was always comparing me to my brother and insinuating that he was better in everything. Even to this day she does this. My brother had bariatric surgery about 8 months after I started losing weight. Whenever I was in her company and someone would comment on my weight loss, she would immediately jump in with "oh but you should see her brother! He's lost X amount of pounds and looks so good!"
However, even with my mom's unwitting comments, I know now that it was my own perceptions of the world around me and how I was supposed to fit into it that has resulted in my issues with perfectionism and self image issues. Parents seem to complicate the issue for children like me, and I think they have no idea how their comments are being internalized by their sensitive children; they would be horrified to know how their child took their offhand comment if they could hear what is going through their child's head. Or at least, the good-meaning parents would, anyway.
But none of us are perfect, and perfection is out of the reach of humanity in this life for certain. So parents are going to mess up and make mistakes, and people are going to mess up and make mistakes. We can't hit it right on every single time, and even if its hard, we need to accept that and give ourselves room for error and be willing to forgive ourselves.
But that's much easier said than done lol
Still, if the perfectionism is sabotaging your long term goals, then if you really want to achieve lasting change, you're going to have to find a way to lessen its impacts on your thoughts and life. You now know the real enemy for who it is; you can now start building your strategy in defeating that enemy. Like NovusDies says, if that part wants to whisper "you blew it and might as well give up" in your ear if you go over by 50 calories, take a moment, recognize the feeling for what it is and determinedly tell yourself that emotions are chaotic and fleeting and should not have control over your decisions in life; don't let the feelings of guilt, self condemnation, or failure derail you from your ultimate goal. Sometimes we have to firmly push those feelings away to get some breathing room for the rational side of our brains to take over and keep us from diving off into that whirlpool the emotions are pulling us into.
In other words, don't just react to a situation. Pause, take some time, breathe, and recognize those emotions for what they are, don't let them have control but instead, put them in their place, remember your ultimate goal, and allow your logical thinking to guide you forward instead of the emotions entangling you in your tracks.
(and yes, right now, my emotions are mocking me with "Pot calling the kettle blackie" lol)2 -
What a great analogy! You don't have to have a perfect shutout to win the game.If one of your goals is to win you are DEFINITELY winning. As is the case in many games it doesn't matter if the wrong team scores a little it only matter if you score the most and your weight loss proves you are scoring the most.
Similar to what Novus said here about our thoughts, I have often made the statement "Feelings lie." I can overeat really bad one day and feel crappy about it, and I'll look at myself in the mirror and think, "Ugh, I look terrible." The next day, I might eat well and have a killer workout, and I can look in that same mirror and think I'm looking much thinner. The truth is, there is no way I look different from one day to the next, but my feelings can dramatically alter what I'm seeing and thinking.Thoughts are not facts. They are opinions. They can be helpful or a hindrance. There are different approaches to dealing with them but I wonder if you would be willing to try and dispute this one.
So can you challenge that notion?
Let's say you eat your lunch but then realize you forgot to weigh your food before you started eating it. This happens to me at least once every 3 months or so.
Is the day ruined?
What evidence do you have that the day is ruined? What evidence do you have against it?
But even if we assume the day can no longer be perfect why does that mean making it as imperfect as possible? If your car gets a single flat tire do you stick a knife in the other 3?
If you can get past your thoughts and feelings and think rationally about what the truth is, it helps. I recently had a 3600-calorie day. My daily target is 1510. It has been a very long time since I've gone over by that much, and believe me, it felt like failure. It helps me to analyze the calories: That's about 2100 extra calories. My formula already has a built-in deficit of 750 calories per day, so that's only 1,350 above maintenance calories. If I met my target the rest of the week, it would reduce my estimated 1.5 lb loss by about a third of a pound. If you can stop yourself from giving up, that REALLY, REALLY high-calorie day is a mere blip. (That's the key, though. Stopping yourself before it becomes several days, and it's much easier said than done.)1 -
Incidentally, @NovusDies, I think you are very wise, too. Or at least very rational, logical, and good at putting things into words. I quite often find myself saying "YES, THIS!" to the things you say.1
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bobsburgersfan wrote: »Incidentally, @NovusDies, I think you are very wise, too. Or at least very rational, logical, and good at putting things into words. I quite often find myself saying "YES, THIS!" to the things you say.
Me, too!
I have read the recent posts and they have given me much to think about!...I never get tired of reading about other Losers struggles and victories...I appreciate all of the really caring comments and advice all of you share...whether it be opinions,wisdom or facts, it all helps...
I went so far as to ask my 12 year old granddaughter what she thought perfection was...oh, the wisdom children have!...she said, “Nannie, you want everything perfect and that’s not always fun!”... that hit home because I am constantly reminding someone to pick up something or turn off a light, put that back exactly the way you found it...or put that plate in the dishwasher right...how much NOT fun can that be?...but there again, do something right ( or what I consider “ right” ) or don’t do it at all...
Starting today I am going to try to relax a little bit...I will try to give myself permission to screw up a little bit and not beat myself up over it or call the entire day a loss for one mistake...I mentioned in another post about becoming more flexible as I have gotten older...kids will definitely make you relax your standards of perfection....and grandkids more so...
Thoughts are not facts, they are opinions!....that is really something to work on...
Thank you to all of you for always being so supportive and helpful!0 -
@conniewilkins56
That expression "do something right or not at all" makes my hairs stand on end. I was told this a million times as a child and teen. Of course the option not to do it at all was not available to me. The definition of "right" was so far out of my reach most days it made for a pretty miserable time of chores being repeated over and over and over... well you get it.
The reality is we don't do much of anything right depending on who is writing the definition. If you do not stretch before getting up in the morning you don't even get out of bed right. If you do stretch a bunch of people will think you do that wrong too. If I can't even wake up "correctly" what hope do I have of getting through the day the "right" way?
I am not critiquing you or how you live. I am just offering my personal point of view from a child of perfectionist parents.3 -
@NovusDies
You're experience growing up sounds like my best friend's. She sometimes talks about growing up with an overly demanding mother and how nothing was right at all, having to repeat jobs just because it wasn't just right.
Thankfully, I didn't deal with that; I see the results in my friend, though, and its rather sad; its hard to convince her to try something knew because automatically expects that it has to be perfect right out of the gate; she won't give herself room to learn or grow.
We can't control what other people think, and the saying that you "can't please all the people all the time" is true. NO matter what you say or do you will never please everyone.
funny, though - I can step back with the rational, logical side of myself and see this; unfortunately, logic doesn't seem to be much of a weapon when it comes to overcoming the inner critic. Sometimes when that inner critic gets to be too much, I have to distance myself from the emotions.
There's a reason I related to Elsa from Frozen; "don't feel" sometimes is the only way I can deal with those negative thoughts!
Might not be a really healthy way to deal with it, but it keeps me moving forward instead of just sitting down and giving up completely or being overwhelmed by defeat and despair. I may not get everything done that I should (or rather, that I think I should or even that other people i.e. my mother thinks I should, but it helps me get done the things I do get done!0 -
@conniewilkins56
That expression "do something right or not at all" makes my hairs stand on end. I was told this a million times as a child and teen. Of course the option not to do it at all was not available to me. The definition of "right" was so far out of my reach most days it made for a pretty miserable time of chores being repeated over and over and over... well you get it.
The reality is we don't do much of anything right depending on who is writing the definition. If you do not stretch before getting up in the morning you don't even get out of bed right. If you do stretch a bunch of people will think you do that wrong too. If I can't even wake up "correctly" what hope do I have of getting through the day the "right" way?
I am not critiquing you or how you live. I am just offering my personal point of view from a child of perfectionist parents.
Yikes!...I can hear my mom saying that...thanks for reminding me...my mom did everything because no one did it the way she wanted it done!...sometimes I open my mouth and I swear my mom comes out of it!..my mom and dad were pretty easy going parents but they had high expectations for me...I was an only child...my dad was an only child and we were both only grandchildren...my mom had one sister....small family...I must have been very spoiled!...I had a very vivid imagination and as long as I wasn’t burning the house down or robbing banks, I was left pretty much to my own devices...a lot of that time was reading or playing alone...my parents married at 16 and 18... I came along three years later...my dad was from a very educated easy going loving family and my mom was from a hard working alcoholic abusive family...a match made in heaven lol...most parents make a lot of mistakes...I told both of our kids that they didn’t come with instruction manuals...considering how dysfunctional so many families are, my kids home life was pretty great...
Your point of view is very insightful....and duly noted...I am going to try not to be so critical with myself and members of my family....( our daughter and her husband and both grands have always lived with
us )...families living together is difficult at times....other times it is ok!...sometimes it’s great...sometimes it is impossible..1 -
This discussion is about exactly the way my mind has worked over the years when it comes to overeating. In my case, most days turned into binge eating episodes because I was going to start fresh tomorrow and it was going to be different----therefore, I need to get it out of my system tonight. When I found myself at the end of my rope two weeks ago --- heaviest ever, bad back, no clothes that I could wear, etc. I decided that this time it was going to be different. But I couldn't get moving until I went back through all the memories of other commitments and realized that they had not worked out. So faced with this black and white way of viewing myself (excelling or failing), I went back through my life and made a written list of the things that I had done that I was proud of. I saw that there were a whole variety of successes that I have had over the years. Yes, I can overcome adversity, deny instant gratification, plan ahead, etc. Then why has food had its way with me?
Having started here on Monday and having made an attempt to meet as many people as I can for support, I do have a feeling of hope.2 -
This discussion is about exactly the way my mind has worked over the years when it comes to overeating. In my case, most days turned into binge eating episodes because I was going to start fresh tomorrow and it was going to be different----therefore, I need to get it out of my system tonight. When I found myself at the end of my rope two weeks ago --- heaviest ever, bad back, no clothes that I could wear, etc. I decided that this time it was going to be different. But I couldn't get moving until I went back through all the memories of other commitments and realized that they had not worked out. So faced with this black and white way of viewing myself (excelling or failing), I went back through my life and made a written list of the things that I had done that I was proud of. I saw that there were a whole variety of successes that I have had over the years. Yes, I can overcome adversity, deny instant gratification, plan ahead, etc. Then why has food had its way with me?
Having started here on Monday and having made an attempt to meet as many people as I can for support, I do have a feeling of hope.
@Ccricfo
I had been the same way. I am not sure why food is the blind spot but there is no other area of my life that "all or nothing" thinking would have ever been acceptable. If I was in a bad mood and made my wife upset would I decide to make her as upset as possible for the rest of the day? If I made a mistake at work would I decide to spend the rest of the day making mistakes?
Not speaking for anyone but me, but I finally realized it was just an excuse. I just wanted to eat whatever I wanted and if I had been trying to lose weight I was just rebelling against myself and my rules. I learned that being a mature person doesn't mean that I don't still have some childish tendencies. So I finally realized that I had to deal with my inner child by compromise instead of letting him throw a tantrum and eat all the food.
I also feel that by not practicing instant gratification I do not have to deal with the kid in the grocery store that wants the candy bar and creates a scene, in this case a mental scene. By telling him no often enough he has learned that he will get the candy bar on the adult's terms and not on the inner child's.1 -
NovusDies:
I laughed my head off when I read what you wrote about making your wife mad all day long ---- but it accurately shows just how crazy the thinking is. Especially when someone has had prior success in losing weight --- I've done it three times earlier in my life. The difference now is the clock is ticking and it's getting harder to live with the consequences. When I looked at my medical file and saw that I have 5 different conditions that are all related to obesity: Knee problems, lower back problems, sleep apnea, high blood pressure, high cholesterol. I don't want to add Covid19 to that list because it would probably be fatal.
So on day 5 of logging every single thing that has passed my lips, exercising every day, and reading all of the good stuff on this website, it just seems so obvious that this works!
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