Diet/Deficit Breaks
bmeadows380
Posts: 2,981 Member
I distinctly remember distilling this down before somewhere, but can't find the post. So I'll make its own thread this time!
the main sticky thread on diet breaks can be found here:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks/p1
There has been a LOT of response to the thread, but don't panic when you see the number of pages: the relevant information is in the first post and the linked podcast.
The basics of the thread are this:
Deficits are hard on the body, and the less fat you have to lose, the harder it is. This is why the 1% rule is highly encouraged (lose no more than 1% of your current body weight) and truthfully, that is often even too much. Its usually suggested that if you have more than 50 lbs to lose, 2 lbs/wk should be sustainable; less than that, and you should be regulating downward to 1.5 lbs/wk, then 1 lb/wk, and finally, for the last 10-20 lbs, 0.5 lbs/wk. Also highly encourage is the less you have to lose, the more diet breaks you need so that you aren't stressing your body to the point of damaging your health - losing hair, being constantly fatigued, or worse, losing or damaging muscle (and remember - your heart is muscle!)
As you lose weight, your body adapts to the new body weight, meaning the lighter you are, the fewer calories you need to survive daily, so your BMR goes down. In addition to this, there can be some adaptive thermogenesis going on - your NEAT goes down because you become less active, etc. NOTE: You CANNOT BREAK YOUR METABOLISM! Broken Metabolism = dead. Starvation mode is a myth; there is no point where eating too few calories will cause you to gain weight. Eating too few calories will be a strain on your body and can cause water retention, bloating, etc, that LOOKS like weight gain, but trust me - you are losing fat when you are literally starving yourself. Think about it: if starvation mode really happened, how would anyone die of starvation?
The body DOES however have some affects. Metabolism can down regulate to a point - but we're talking a small amount - maybe 100 calories? I don't remember the exact number.
One thing the body does is to down regulate certain hormones in the body as it adapts to your new lower weight, including Leptin, which is the hormone that is part of the saity signaling network. Less Leptin in the body means its harder for you to feel full and satisfied. This also means that there will be an increase in ghrelin, the hunger hormone which, as it says, makes you feel hungry. The body does this 1) because losing weight does have a general affect on your body's processes, and 2) the deficit is stressful and this is the body's way of responding to stress and trying to get out of the stressful state. Deficit eating is eating less than your body needs in energy levels to power through the day, so its going to try to stimulate you to eat more to get rid of that deficit.
Aggressive dieting or striving to lose weight as fast as possible or pushing to lose faster than what is healthy for your current weight is detrimental to your health and simply not sustainable. The goal in weight loss is to do it in a healthy way that is easiest on your body and something that you can sustain long term, which means patience is an absolute must.
This is where diet breaks come in. From a physiological stand point, diet breaks, or eating at maintenance or slightly above maintenance, can result in the body resuming normal hormonal production, including leptin, which in turn will make it easier to continue the deficit after the break - things get reset. From a mental standpoint, diet breaks give you a mental break as well from trying to constantly maintain that deficit. It also works as practice for maintenance which we all eventually want to get to.
The more fat you have to lose, the more stores your body has to pull from, and the longer you can go without a diet break, but the maximum I've seen recommended is 12 - 16 weeks and the less you have to lose the more often they should occur. Diet breaks are for everyone, whether you have 10 lbs to lose or 200.
female/male BMI length of time between diet breaks
28 and higher/30 and higher should be between 12 - 16 weeks
21 - 28/ 24 - 30 should be between 6 - 12 weeks
20 and under/23 and under should between 4 - 6 weeks
Note that the maintenance you should be using should be calculated at the current weight.
Also, you need at least a week of maintenance for the hormonal benefits, and the recommendation often given is push that to 2 weeks to make sure you get those benefits.
also note that while in a diet break, you need to eat at maintenance every day of the break in order to get the hormonal benefits.
If you have any questions, put it into the diet breaks thread; folks there are pretty quick to answer!
I also admit that I have not watched the podcast, but I have read a few articles on Lyle McDonald's website that were linked.
Edited title: Last time this discussion appeared here a few people did not like the idea of taking a break from a diet because they did not consider themselves on a diet. Since then I have tried to refer to them as diet/deficit breaks. -ND
the main sticky thread on diet breaks can be found here:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks/p1
There has been a LOT of response to the thread, but don't panic when you see the number of pages: the relevant information is in the first post and the linked podcast.
The basics of the thread are this:
Deficits are hard on the body, and the less fat you have to lose, the harder it is. This is why the 1% rule is highly encouraged (lose no more than 1% of your current body weight) and truthfully, that is often even too much. Its usually suggested that if you have more than 50 lbs to lose, 2 lbs/wk should be sustainable; less than that, and you should be regulating downward to 1.5 lbs/wk, then 1 lb/wk, and finally, for the last 10-20 lbs, 0.5 lbs/wk. Also highly encourage is the less you have to lose, the more diet breaks you need so that you aren't stressing your body to the point of damaging your health - losing hair, being constantly fatigued, or worse, losing or damaging muscle (and remember - your heart is muscle!)
As you lose weight, your body adapts to the new body weight, meaning the lighter you are, the fewer calories you need to survive daily, so your BMR goes down. In addition to this, there can be some adaptive thermogenesis going on - your NEAT goes down because you become less active, etc. NOTE: You CANNOT BREAK YOUR METABOLISM! Broken Metabolism = dead. Starvation mode is a myth; there is no point where eating too few calories will cause you to gain weight. Eating too few calories will be a strain on your body and can cause water retention, bloating, etc, that LOOKS like weight gain, but trust me - you are losing fat when you are literally starving yourself. Think about it: if starvation mode really happened, how would anyone die of starvation?
The body DOES however have some affects. Metabolism can down regulate to a point - but we're talking a small amount - maybe 100 calories? I don't remember the exact number.
One thing the body does is to down regulate certain hormones in the body as it adapts to your new lower weight, including Leptin, which is the hormone that is part of the saity signaling network. Less Leptin in the body means its harder for you to feel full and satisfied. This also means that there will be an increase in ghrelin, the hunger hormone which, as it says, makes you feel hungry. The body does this 1) because losing weight does have a general affect on your body's processes, and 2) the deficit is stressful and this is the body's way of responding to stress and trying to get out of the stressful state. Deficit eating is eating less than your body needs in energy levels to power through the day, so its going to try to stimulate you to eat more to get rid of that deficit.
Aggressive dieting or striving to lose weight as fast as possible or pushing to lose faster than what is healthy for your current weight is detrimental to your health and simply not sustainable. The goal in weight loss is to do it in a healthy way that is easiest on your body and something that you can sustain long term, which means patience is an absolute must.
This is where diet breaks come in. From a physiological stand point, diet breaks, or eating at maintenance or slightly above maintenance, can result in the body resuming normal hormonal production, including leptin, which in turn will make it easier to continue the deficit after the break - things get reset. From a mental standpoint, diet breaks give you a mental break as well from trying to constantly maintain that deficit. It also works as practice for maintenance which we all eventually want to get to.
The more fat you have to lose, the more stores your body has to pull from, and the longer you can go without a diet break, but the maximum I've seen recommended is 12 - 16 weeks and the less you have to lose the more often they should occur. Diet breaks are for everyone, whether you have 10 lbs to lose or 200.
female/male BMI length of time between diet breaks
28 and higher/30 and higher should be between 12 - 16 weeks
21 - 28/ 24 - 30 should be between 6 - 12 weeks
20 and under/23 and under should between 4 - 6 weeks
Note that the maintenance you should be using should be calculated at the current weight.
Also, you need at least a week of maintenance for the hormonal benefits, and the recommendation often given is push that to 2 weeks to make sure you get those benefits.
also note that while in a diet break, you need to eat at maintenance every day of the break in order to get the hormonal benefits.
If you have any questions, put it into the diet breaks thread; folks there are pretty quick to answer!
I also admit that I have not watched the podcast, but I have read a few articles on Lyle McDonald's website that were linked.
Edited title: Last time this discussion appeared here a few people did not like the idea of taking a break from a diet because they did not consider themselves on a diet. Since then I have tried to refer to them as diet/deficit breaks. -ND
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I made it!...break is officially over today....after gaining a whopping 17 lbs it leveled out and this morning and I was only up 5 lbs for two weeks....considering different foods I ate and water retention I think this was pretty good...I put my weekly loss at 1.5 pounds this morning and water jogged for over an hour at the pool...tomorrow is rest day from swimming!....I think this experiment was a success!....8
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I just did a diet break too, for one week. It was refreshing and felt great. Gained 5lb scale weight but lost it all in a day once I want back into a deficit, so water weight. It was nice to be eating more abs not feeling out of control like I have in the past.3
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I intend to do this, but after reading Lyle's book on flexible dieting, I shouldn't do it for another 6-10 weeks. I am in Category 3 as far as BMI.1
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@conniewilkins56 congratulations! I knew you could do it!
With the lethargy I'm having trouble with and the increased activity this weekend, I'm going to take a 10 day break too starting tomorrow; we'll see if @NovusDies 's experience with increasing calories the day before extended labor helps me too. Course, getting more sleep by not having to get up at 5:30 AM will greatly help as well....
@Ccricfo
The recommendations, I don't think, are for absolute time frames but maximum ones, so a cat 3 person should take one at a maximum of 16 weeks apart; it also goes by how you feel too - if you are feeling sluggish, tired, hungry, etc, you should schedule a break even if its earlier - better to nip any problems in the bud rather than let them fester.
Which is why I'm going ahead and taking one next week. I"m not really scheduled for another one until October, but the last 2 weeks I've been so sluggish, having so many problems sleeping, thinking, being tired - there are probably multiple reasons for why I feel that way (I'm really, really looking forward to this vacation for being able to just sleep when I need it than anything else!), but perhaps giving myself more fuel for a period of time will help.2 -
Awesome! @conniewilkins56
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@conniewilkins56 - Great accomplishment!! That must feel good. And way to not let the water weight get to your head either. It sounds like a success on all fronts!1
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I think I will handle the next break better....after a few days of not wanting to eat, I was like a kid in a candy store and wanted to eat everything!...I got it under control and that was a really great feeling of accomplishment for me....I have never been able to do this before!...the extra five pounds is still with me as a souvenir but I am not stressing out over it....I know it will come back off...the best thing being on MFP is I never really feel deprived....anything I really want to eat, I budget it into my daily calories....I reset my weekly loss at 2 lbs and that is only 1270 calories a day but if I get my swimming in, I get about 1500 calories a day and I get plenty to eat plus my snacks....I am a snackie kind of girl lol2
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@conniewilkins56
I'm still in that boat too - I need my daily walk for the extra calories it gives me!
I need to run the guided setup; I think I'm at a 750 calorie deficit at the moment, but I need to make sure (and thats for sedentary settings). I tried the TDEE method last time and it didn't work well for me, so this time around, I'll stick with MFP's NEAT method, leave myself at sedentary, and then count back 100% of what walking and hiking I get in (and whatever else I end up doing).1 -
starting today, I went through the guided setup on my alternate account (that's the account I use to play around with settings without screwing up the numbers on this account) and going by my lowest weight this week (because I'm up 3.5 lbs in water weight today *grumble, whine, moan*), maintenance for sedentary for me is 2170 calories.
So today, I'm manually changing my calorie goal to 2200 calories and will be eating back 100% of all activity calories for the next week. This weekend will be difficult to judge what with the moving; the best I can think to do with that is to just keep track of the hours I spend and maybe eat over to compensate.
Hopefully, being off the clock and therefore able to sleep in coupled with being away from work and the extra calories will reset my energy levels this week!4 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »starting today, I went through the guided setup on my alternate account (that's the account I use to play around with settings without screwing up the numbers on this account) and going by my lowest weight this week (because I'm up 3.5 lbs in water weight today *grumble, whine, moan*), maintenance for sedentary for me is 2170 calories.
So today, I'm manually changing my calorie goal to 2200 calories and will be eating back 100% of all activity calories for the next week. This weekend will be difficult to judge what with the moving; the best I can think to do with that is to just keep track of the hours I spend and maybe eat over to compensate.
Hopefully, being off the clock and therefore able to sleep in coupled with being away from work and the extra calories will reset my energy levels this week!
I hope you have a good weekend and the extra calories perk you up!1 -
I am very happy to report that my weight is exactly the same as it was at the beginning of my break!...now I can get down to business as usual and work on my next ten pounds!7
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conniewilkins56 wrote: »I am very happy to report that my weight is exactly the same as it was at the beginning of my break!...now I can get down to business as usual and work on my next ten pounds!
fantastic news, connie! that makes it a complete success for you!1 -
I haven't taken a deficit break since I started this journey back in April of 2019. There was one time last year when I contemplated taking one as my hunger seemed to be growing out of control. As I was thinking about it and planning for it, a couple weeks passed and I found the "hungry" weeks had passed as well so I just kept on with eating at a deficit. I have been having a lot of hunger for a few days again and just reached my first tentative goal weight today. I do have more to lose but I also want to be prepared for maintenance, assuming I reach an actual healthy weight some day!
For those of you that have done a deficit break, did you find the experience worthwhile or do you think it would have been better to just keep on with your deficit? Any advice/helpful hints if I do decide to take a break?
@speyerj I believe you got to goal without taking a break if I remember correctly. Now that you've been in maintenance a while and can look back, would you do things differently? Do you think a break would have helped prepare you for maintenance? (I was going to message you privately but I thought others might like to hear your perspective as someone who has reached goal and been maintaining a while. I hope that's okay.)1 -
Thanks for asking @MuttiNM.
I didn't take a break because I never felt like I needed one. Was I perfect for the entire 13 months it took to lose the first 110 pounds? No, but I still lost something every week, even if it wasn't what I had hoped to lose. But when I did switch over to maintenance adjusting to the idea that I wasn't supposed to leave calories on the table was a bit hard, and so I kept losing, just a little bit more slowly, until I found 3 months later I was down another 15 pounds. Honestly, I'm glad. I had picked 175 because that was my weight when I was 25, but I'm glad to be hovering in the low 160s.
I think diet breaks are good for people who are sick and tired of dieting and need a break. If you don't feel you need a break, keep at it. There's no such thing as a weight set point - at least there isn't any scientific, evidence based study to be found to support such a thing. But if you are curious what maintenance is like and want to give it a try, go for it. You will enjoy being able to eat dessert and other treats!2 -
@speyerj Thanks for your response. I don't really feel like I need a break, at least from a psychological or emotional level, since I'm eating the way I think I'll be eating during maintenance, just with a slightly lower calorie level, and I'm not finding it a burden. Physically, I feel fine except for the hunger I've been feeling the past few days or so. Maybe I need to look at my macros and adjust something there. Or maybe this will pass like it did last year.
I am curious about the transition to maintenance, wondering if there are pitfalls I'll encounter and if practice at maintenance would help. I'm sure I'll ponder this for a few more days, overthinking things, before I make changes, if any.
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Thanks for asking @MuttiNM.
I didn't take a break because I never felt like I needed one. Was I perfect for the entire 13 months it took to lose the first 110 pounds? No, but I still lost something every week, even if it wasn't what I had hoped to lose. But when I did switch over to maintenance adjusting to the idea that I wasn't supposed to leave calories on the table was a bit hard, and so I kept losing, just a little bit more slowly, until I found 3 months later I was down another 15 pounds. Honestly, I'm glad. I had picked 175 because that was my weight when I was 25, but I'm glad to be hovering in the low 160s.
I think diet breaks are good for people who are sick and tired of dieting and need a break. If you don't feel you need a break, keep at it. There's no such thing as a weight set point - at least there isn't any scientific, evidence based study to be found to support such a thing. But if you are curious what maintenance is like and want to give it a try, go for it. You will enjoy being able to eat dessert and other treats!
What a great response. I'm in the same place and am pondering a break soon, or maybe building in a monthly break as I approach my goal ??? weight/body state/headspace. Not sure what will be the marker!
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@speyerj Thanks for your response. I don't really feel like I need a break, at least from a psychological or emotional level, since I'm eating the way I think I'll be eating during maintenance, just with a slightly lower calorie level, and I'm not finding it a burden. Physically, I feel fine except for the hunger I've been feeling the past few days or so. Maybe I need to look at my macros and adjust something there. Or maybe this will pass like it did last year.
I am curious about the transition to maintenance, wondering if there are pitfalls I'll encounter and if practice at maintenance would help. I'm sure I'll ponder this for a few more days, overthinking things, before I make changes, if any.
Thank you for bringing this thread back up. I'm getting close to maintenance. Somedays unsure if I should perhaps slow down/take a break/get used to the idea that this weight of eating - or something close to it - is going to be for the rest of my life.
But, I am so impatient to get to the final spot and "relax" - but what will that mean?!1 -
@lauriekallis I'm getting impatient as well but when I think about it, I don't really know why. I don't see anything really changing once I hit that mythical goal weight. I'll just get a few more calories each day. That's it. Nothing else will change...except maybe I can stop buying smaller clothes and have a more stable wardrobe. I guess I just like the idea of achieving a long-dreamed of goal and being able to say "Yes! I did it!". In my head, I know that if I want to maintain, I'll never be "finished".
A monthly break as you mentioned above isn't something I had considered. I'll have to think about that. Thanks for presenting another option.1 -
@lauriekallis and @MuttiNM - So here's the bad news about maintenance. There is no final spot where you get to "relax". In fact, that sort of thinking is what led me to regain the 100 pounds I lost on my first MFP go around about 5 years ago. I was in such a hurry to get to maintenance so I could go back to "living my life". Ha!
I had an epiphany somewhere about half way through this weight loss journey, which I credit to @NovusDies. Something he wrote made me realize that this IS my life - logging, limiting my intake, watching my macros, monitoring my weight - everything I was doing to help me maintain a deficit and lose weight, I was going to have to keep doing for the rest of my life. That also helped me realize that white knuckling a deficit wasn't going to work. I had to find a way to eat at a deficit that I could manage for the rest of my life. And once I started doing that, I found I didn't need a diet break.
Here's the other dirty secret about maintenance: My calories limit today without extra exercise is the same as my 1000 calorie deficit when I weighed 285 pounds. So, unless I engage in exercise, I really don't have extra calories. I love dessert, so I run.
And this is something I have to keep working on - that just because I go for an 8 mile run, that isn't a hall pass to eat what ever I want for the rest of the day (and sometimes into the next day). Which is why I have to keep reminding myself: Constant vigilance is the price of maintenance.
The other challenge with maintenance is learning to manage the scale fluctuations. During weight loss, water retention makes the scale get stuck - making you think you are on a plateau, when really, you are losing fat behind the scenes but holding on to water. During maintenance, water retention makes the scale go up! Which is such a shocker, especially if it crosses your goal weight. Most people set a goal range instead of a goal weight and use the range as guardrails to make adjustments if we go off the rails.
Another thing that was helpful was weighing daily and tracking my weekly and monthly average weight. There is a monthly check in thread in the Maintenance section of the public discussion boards that provides a tracking template. Tracking there has helped me see when I am slipping (so I can make adjustments early) and when I am actually doing a great job maintaining.
I had a moment of discouragement in January where I felt like maintenance was just one big long life-long diet. I wanted someone to tell me that it gets easier and that eventually you just eat in a manner that intuitively maintains your weight. Folks who have been on maintenance for a long time tell me that it does get easier, but they still log, limit and monitor everyday.
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I am a binge eater....BED......in 21 months I have lost 102.5 lbs....I will be 70 in July.....I am 5’ 9” and have a large frame carrying most of my weight in my thighs and arms...no one ever guesses my weight so in that way I am lucky!...I started at 350 and now weigh 247.5 lbs.....being a diagnosed Binge Eater, diet “ breaks “ have been very stressful for me....on both breaks I ended up going way over my calorie goals and going back to really bad habits within a couple of days of starting my break....I always manage to lose the regained pounds but the extra weight makes me feel very guilty and frustrated....how will I ever manage maintenance when I reach my goal weight?...my doctor and I have talked about my goal weight and both agree that under 200 would be a good place to begin maintenance and let my body decide how much more to lose....I do not want to have any skin reduction operations...I think breaks are healthy for many and if handled right, they can be a useful tool in this journey...for me, I am re thinking whether I should upset the apple cart...I do much better in a very controlled space...I am doing better by upping my calorie goals when I am extra hungry or anxious...I really wish there was a one size fits all answer to this!3
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@conniewilkins56 - I'm totally with you on doing better in a controlled space. I took about a 6 week logging break in November - just to see if I could manage it. It taught me that no, I need to log - maybe I can take a logging break for a day, but not a whole week or more. Fortunately, I only gained about 6 or 7 pounds during the experiment and was able to re-lose it. But sometime we have to try things on to see if they fit.1
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@conniewilkins56 True. Everyone is different and has different strengths and challenges and different genes. It would be nice if there was a one size fits all answer but that's not reality. Still, it's good to hear others' experiences because maybe you can learn something that you can apply to your own journey. It usually doesn't hurt to try something. If it doesn't work for you, well, now you know that and you can continue to find the things that do.
I also carry most of my weight in my thighs and arms. I don't think I'll be wearing short sleeves or shorts ever again...not that I have for years anyway. I doubt I would have skin removal surgery either. I may change my mind but right now I'm thinking no surgery unless the loose skin starts causing problems...other than my own insecurities over it. 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on deficit breaks!1 -
@speyerj Yeah, I've pretty much come to the realization that nothing will change when I reach my goal weight, whatever that might be. That's a good point about scale fluctuations. I hadn't thought much about that. I'll have to keep that in mind so I can mentally prepare for that. Thank you for your insight!1
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conniewilkins56 wrote: »...I do much better in a very controlled space...
I feel this way too. But have occasionally had some luck with short, less controlled, times. I mean one day maybe a day and a half. More than that and things unravel.
But, I'm really hoping that is what maintenance can mean for me? Maybe having a day or two a week when I don't worry about tracking? Not going all out and eating everything out there, but more relaxed days, I imagine on the weekend when I'm eating with/cooking for other people (that will happen again, right???). And getting back into my "weekday" routine. Tracking. Maybe eating at a deficit?
It would be nice to turn off the internal calorie counter now and again and instead aim to be sensible?
Maybe Monday mornings can be my "weigh in" - that way I will always be at my highest weight rather than experiencing the horror of seeing that I've gained 5 pounds in a day.
Losing just over 100lbs in a year was great - but it also came with its own stressors and took constant focus - figuring out best approaches etc. Lots of guessing. Some bouts of real fatigue. It will be nice to stop wondering how next month will be, what the skin will be like, what clothes will fit when the season changes, whether I can do it or not, and how to deal with pissy friends. It is better now than it was. I really hope it is better than this once I hit maintenance. Because I do not want my focus for the rest of my life to be on maintaining my new weight. It can be a part of my attention - but not like it has been this year.2
