Grass Fed Cows, ? Fed Chickens
AllanMisner
Posts: 4,136 Member
Was reading a story about a chicken ranch/farm and they indicated they have no-GMO, no-soy feed beyond what the chickens would eat around (bugs, etc.). What should we expect our chickens to eat to be as healthy as possible?
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They prefer bugs, worms, and other invertebrates but also eat seeds, berries, nuts and whatever they find appetizing.0
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Soy is a common ingredient in animal feed, and most of the soy in the US is GMO. Interestingly, what chickens eat comes through in their eggs and meat. One of my family members is so sensitive to soy that if she eats chicken or eggs from chickens fed with soy it means a three-day (minimum) migraine.
You can actually see the difference in eggs. Commercially fed chickens (big operation, chickens live out their lives in cages, eating grain) lay eggs with pale yellow yolks, very little flavor. Eggs from free ranging chickens have dark orange yolks and great flavor. Higher nutrients, too.0 -
I guess I was wondering don't free range chickens also eat grains and soy when there aren't enough insects, etc. to eat? And, if we're avoiding corn fed and grain fed cows, shouldn't we be avoiding corn and grain fed chickens?0
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You were asking what chickens would naturally eat. How would they naturally eat grain and soy? Sure they would eat natural grains... which are very different from the grains we cultivate. There are natural legumes as well that also bear no resemblance to cultivated soy. Chickens prefer invertebrates and are totally opportunistic. If you give them grain, they will eat it, even if not "healthy". Just like people.
PS. Insects are one of the most abundant food sources around.0 -
Soy is a common ingredient in animal feed, and most of the soy in the US is GMO. Interestingly, what chickens eat comes through in their eggs and meat. One of my family members is so sensitive to soy that if she eats chicken or eggs from chickens fed with soy it means a three-day (minimum) migraine.
You can actually see the difference in eggs. Commercially fed chickens (big operation, chickens live out their lives in cages, eating grain) lay eggs with pale yellow yolks, very little flavor. Eggs from free ranging chickens have dark orange yolks and great flavor. Higher nutrients, too.
My free range chickens never had orange yolks0 -
You were asking what chickens would naturally eat. How would they naturally eat grain and soy? Sure they would eat natural grains... which are very different from the grains we cultivate. There are natural legumes as well that also bear no resemblance to cultivated soy. Chickens prefer invertebrates and are totally opportunistic. If you give them grain, they will eat it, even if not "healthy". Just like people.
PS. Insects are one of the most abundant food sources around.
Chickens themselves are not natural and are a product of selective breeding by man.0 -
You were asking what chickens would naturally eat. How would they naturally eat grain and soy? Sure they would eat natural grains... which are very different from the grains we cultivate. There are natural legumes as well that also bear no resemblance to cultivated soy. Chickens prefer invertebrates and are totally opportunistic. If you give them grain, they will eat it, even if not "healthy". Just like people.
PS. Insects are one of the most abundant food sources around.
Chickens themselves are not natural and are a product of selective breeding by man.
Since you do not practice/agree with Paleo/Primal, why do you insist on commenting in this forum?
I based my information on both what free range domesticated chickens eat when we let them walk around outside and also on what wild chicken species eat, such as the Red Junglefowl.
Chickens are as natural as any animal. The weren't created in a laboratory. They have only been domesticated for around 7000 years, give or take. FYI: the Red junglefowl and our modern chickens are considered the same species and can interbreed. So I guess that makes it "natural". Human beings are natural too, for that matter.
(Also, all the free range chicken eggs that I have had did have dark yolks. So were you letting yours out but still feeding them grain? There will always be variation depending on the food consume, as you know.)0 -
You were asking what chickens would naturally eat. How would they naturally eat grain and soy? Sure they would eat natural grains... which are very different from the grains we cultivate. There are natural legumes as well that also bear no resemblance to cultivated soy. Chickens prefer invertebrates and are totally opportunistic. If you give them grain, they will eat it, even if not "healthy". Just like people.
PS. Insects are one of the most abundant food sources around.
Chickens themselves are not natural and are a product of selective breeding by man.
Since you do not practice/agree with Paleo/Primal, why do you insist on commenting in this forum?
I based my information on both what free range domesticated chickens eat when we let them walk around outside and also on what wild chicken species eat, such as the Red Junglefowl.
Chickens are as natural as any animal. The weren't created in a laboratory. They have only been domesticated for around 7000 years, give or take. FYI: the Red junglefowl and our modern chickens are considered the same species and can interbreed. So I guess that makes it "natural". Human beings are natural too, for that matter.
(Also, all the free range chicken eggs that I have had did have dark yolks. So were you letting yours out but still feeding them grain? There will always be variation depending on the food consume, as you know.)
I have nothing against primal/paleo. Do you only wish to talk to people who share your same views?
Where do you draw the line on natural/not natural? If it's created in a lab?
GMO wheat can breed with non-GMO wheat, is it natural? I'm not sure what your standard is.
My chickens ate everything from corn to mice to eggs and everything they could fit in their mouths.
I have no doubt you could influence a chickens yolk to turn orange by restricting its diet but yellow is the normal color.0 -
You were asking what chickens would naturally eat. How would they naturally eat grain and soy? Sure they would eat natural grains... which are very different from the grains we cultivate. There are natural legumes as well that also bear no resemblance to cultivated soy. Chickens prefer invertebrates and are totally opportunistic. If you give them grain, they will eat it, even if not "healthy". Just like people.
PS. Insects are one of the most abundant food sources around.
Chickens themselves are not natural and are a product of selective breeding by man.
Since you do not practice/agree with Paleo/Primal, why do you insist on commenting in this forum?
I based my information on both what free range domesticated chickens eat when we let them walk around outside and also on what wild chicken species eat, such as the Red Junglefowl.
Chickens are as natural as any animal. The weren't created in a laboratory. They have only been domesticated for around 7000 years, give or take. FYI: the Red junglefowl and our modern chickens are considered the same species and can interbreed. So I guess that makes it "natural". Human beings are natural too, for that matter.
(Also, all the free range chicken eggs that I have had did have dark yolks. So were you letting yours out but still feeding them grain? There will always be variation depending on the food consume, as you know.)
I have nothing against primal/paleo. Do you only wish to talk to people who share your same views?
Where do you draw the line on natural/not natural? If it's created in a lab?
GMO wheat can breed with non-GMO wheat, is it natural? I'm not sure what your standard is.
My chickens ate everything from corn to mice to eggs and everything they could fit in their mouths.
I have no doubt you could influence a chickens yolk to turn orange by restricting its diet but yellow is the normal color.
Yes, actually you do have something against this lifestyle; at the very least you do not agree and you do not practice it. Snide comments about dinosaurs and chickens not being natural.
Yes, in the Primal/Paleo forum I do expect to only speak with people who share my views, more or less. In the General Forum all bets are off, as you are well aware. There is no respect there for differing views, and you know it.
I'm not having a discussion versus what is natural or not. In my opinion, chickens are alive and are "natural". Domestication does not make them "unnatural" at least dietarily (is that a word? lol) speaking.
Yup, chickens are omnivorous and will take advantage of any food available; no argument there. But I've seen it many times that people think they prefer grass; wrong.0 -
I do appreciate the input (for or against). I'm not so concerned about the chicken or the egg conversation. A chicken has healthy meat if it was properly managed (same for the eggs).
I also love brussel sprouts, which were effectively cross-bred/man created. I don't think that makes a food bad for you. But, I do think companies are going too far with the chemicals and lab produced food-stuff. The "food shortage" is really just a distribution and transportation problem. The closer you are to the kill (animal or plant) the better the food.
In the meantime, I'm looking to tweak things here and there to get healthier. I appreciate the comments.0 -
They prefer bugs, worms, and other invertebrates but also eat seeds, berries, nuts and whatever they find appetizing.
This.
The whole "chickens fed a vegetarian diet" is kind of a joke, if you think about it. On the upside, at least they're not being fed chicken or beef byproducts. On the other hand, though, unless they're free to graze on grubs and other critters, very likely their main (only?) protein source is soy. Not exactly ideal for them.
It seems to me that most people don't realize that chickens are omnivores. Why is that? Does it have to do with being a farm/food animal, or something (we eat them, and they're domesticated, therefore they can't possibly eat other animals!)? Or do they think all birds that aren't raptors only eat seeds/grains? (Serious questions, I honestly don't get it.)0 -
They prefer bugs, worms, and other invertebrates but also eat seeds, berries, nuts and whatever they find appetizing.
This.
The whole "chickens fed a vegetarian diet" is kind of a joke, if you think about it. On the upside, at least they're not being fed chicken or beef byproducts. On the other hand, though, unless they're free to graze on grubs and other critters, very likely their main (only?) protein source is soy. Not exactly ideal for them.
It seems to me that most people don't realize that chickens are omnivores. Why is that? Does it have to do with being a farm/food animal, or something (we eat them, and they're domesticated, therefore they can't possibly eat other animals!)? Or do they think all birds that aren't raptors only eat seeds/grains? (Serious questions, I honestly don't get it.)
Because in our modern society there is a massive disconnect between us and our food supply0 -
They prefer bugs, worms, and other invertebrates but also eat seeds, berries, nuts and whatever they find appetizing.
This.
The whole "chickens fed a vegetarian diet" is kind of a joke, if you think about it. On the upside, at least they're not being fed chicken or beef byproducts. On the other hand, though, unless they're free to graze on grubs and other critters, very likely their main (only?) protein source is soy. Not exactly ideal for them.
It seems to me that most people don't realize that chickens are omnivores. Why is that? Does it have to do with being a farm/food animal, or something (we eat them, and they're domesticated, therefore they can't possibly eat other animals!)? Or do they think all birds that aren't raptors only eat seeds/grains? (Serious questions, I honestly don't get it.)
Agreed. I have a serious case of eye rolling (frustration and anger) going on every time I see a package of chicken or eggs stamped with "grain fed" in big letters as if it's such a great thing. Sigh.0 -
They prefer bugs, worms, and other invertebrates but also eat seeds, berries, nuts and whatever they find appetizing.
This.
The whole "chickens fed a vegetarian diet" is kind of a joke, if you think about it. On the upside, at least they're not being fed chicken or beef byproducts. On the other hand, though, unless they're free to graze on grubs and other critters, very likely their main (only?) protein source is soy. Not exactly ideal for them.
It seems to me that most people don't realize that chickens are omnivores. Why is that? Does it have to do with being a farm/food animal, or something (we eat them, and they're domesticated, therefore they can't possibly eat other animals!)? Or do they think all birds that aren't raptors only eat seeds/grains? (Serious questions, I honestly don't get it.)
Because in our modern society there is a massive disconnect between us and our food supply
We finally found common ground. I completely AGREE, and that disconnect is very unhealthy for us and animals. (I live in the Arctic- many people, including me, hunt and eat wild animals which helps maintain that connection-however, most locals do not consider how the food in the store got there and they have no grasp that food can impact health.)0 -
We finally found common ground. I completely AGREE, and that disconnect is very unhealthy for us and animals. (I live in the Arctic- many people, including me, hunt and eat wild animals which helps maintain that connection-however, most locals do not consider how the food in the store got there and they have no grasp that food can impact health.)
Speaking of hunting. What do Arctic animals taste like?0 -
They prefer bugs, worms, and other invertebrates but also eat seeds, berries, nuts and whatever they find appetizing.
This.
The whole "chickens fed a vegetarian diet" is kind of a joke, if you think about it. On the upside, at least they're not being fed chicken or beef byproducts. On the other hand, though, unless they're free to graze on grubs and other critters, very likely their main (only?) protein source is soy. Not exactly ideal for them.
It seems to me that most people don't realize that chickens are omnivores. Why is that? Does it have to do with being a farm/food animal, or something (we eat them, and they're domesticated, therefore they can't possibly eat other animals!)? Or do they think all birds that aren't raptors only eat seeds/grains? (Serious questions, I honestly don't get it.)
Because in our modern society there is a massive disconnect between us and our food supply
Fair enough. It seemed to me, though, that people have at least a general sense of what a given non-food animal eats. Non-raptor avian species seem to be the exception, which is kind of odd to me.
But then, as I'm writing this, I remember the number of myths out there that cats and dogs are omnivores and/or can thrive on a vegetarian diet... =/0 -
They prefer bugs, worms, and other invertebrates but also eat seeds, berries, nuts and whatever they find appetizing.
This.
The whole "chickens fed a vegetarian diet" is kind of a joke, if you think about it. On the upside, at least they're not being fed chicken or beef byproducts. On the other hand, though, unless they're free to graze on grubs and other critters, very likely their main (only?) protein source is soy. Not exactly ideal for them.
It seems to me that most people don't realize that chickens are omnivores. Why is that? Does it have to do with being a farm/food animal, or something (we eat them, and they're domesticated, therefore they can't possibly eat other animals!)? Or do they think all birds that aren't raptors only eat seeds/grains? (Serious questions, I honestly don't get it.)
Because in our modern society there is a massive disconnect between us and our food supply
Fair enough. It seemed to me, though, that people have at least a general sense of what a given non-food animal eats. Non-raptor avian species seem to be the exception, which is kind of odd to me.
But then, as I'm writing this, I remember the number of myths out there that cats and dogs are omnivores and/or can thrive on a vegetarian diet... =/
Dogs can be classed as omnivores but not cats. Dogs will eat berries, roots, grass etc. But being omnivorous does not mean they could survive (in the wild THRIVE is the only way to be likely to survive) as vegetarians. No. I would argue the same for humans.0 -
We finally found common ground. I completely AGREE, and that disconnect is very unhealthy for us and animals. (I live in the Arctic- many people, including me, hunt and eat wild animals which helps maintain that connection-however, most locals do not consider how the food in the store got there and they have no grasp that food can impact health.)
Speaking of hunting. What do Arctic animals taste like?
Depends which animal, but there's no comparison to other animals. Everything has it's own unique taste. I have also had deer, elk, wild boar, and perhaps a few other southern wild animals. The most notable thing about the Arctic animals that Inuit prefered (marine mammals) is that they contain LOTS OF FAT (omega 3s). Also, an animal of the same species can taste very differently than another. It depends where they live and what they eat.
I have eaten: caribou, muskox, moose, beaver, ground squirrel (just recently when my dog killed one), seal, whale, geese, ducks, Arctic char (and all kinds of other fish), thinking.... The only things that I can think of that I have not eaten is bear (black, grizzly, polar), fox, wolverine, and lynx (a sub Arctic animal). Oh and I haven't had the opportunity to try any local shellfish.0 -
My free range chickens never had orange yolks
'Free range' is not a legally defined term. Many farms use it if the chickens have a pen outside of their coop where they can walk around. It may be (and usually is) dirt, with no vegetation or insects, so that the term 'free range' is nutritionally null. Chickens with access to a yard with grass, weeds and other vegetation - along with insects and other protein sources - and not augmented with grain feeds will have darker yolks.
The orange in a yolk comes from the amount of beta carotene in their diet. If chickens have access to a yard with plants as well as insects, their yolks will be darker than eggs that are either grain fed or grain augmented.
While you are right that modern chickens are the product of selective breeding, that doesn't make them 'unnatural'. Primitive chicken stock still exists in southeastern Asia, and they can and do interbreed with modern varieties.Chickens themselves are not natural and are a product of selective breeding by man.
Actually it's the other way around. Restricting a chickens diet - or feeding them food they normally wouldn't eat - produces a pale yolk. A normal diet of vegetation and insects, produces darker yolks - they higher the beta carotene, the darker. Try adding carrot shavings to your chickens diet (a high beta carotene source). The eggs will go orange in a hurry.I have no doubt you could influence a chickens yolk to turn orange by restricting its diet but yellow is the normal color.0 -
Dogs can be classed as omnivores but not cats. Dogs will eat berries, roots, grass etc. But being omnivorous does not mean they could survive (in the wild THRIVE is the only way to be likely to survive) as vegetarians. No. I would argue the same for humans.
Technically speaking, cats will also eat things like grass, but that doesn't make them omnivores (they're considered obligate carnivores, as they can't absorb certain nutrients from non-animal foods). L. David Mech is the leading wolf researcher, and he's found that while they will occasionally consume berries, they don't digest them well, and they specifically avoid the stomach contents of their prey. Most often, grass and whatnot are used for emetic purposes (ie - nature's ipecac).
Your fun fact of the day. :drinker:0 -
Dogs can be classed as omnivores but not cats. Dogs will eat berries, roots, grass etc. But being omnivorous does not mean they could survive (in the wild THRIVE is the only way to be likely to survive) as vegetarians. No. I would argue the same for humans.
Technically speaking, cats will also eat things like grass, but that doesn't make them omnivores (they're considered obligate carnivores, as they can't absorb certain nutrients from non-animal foods). L. David Mech is the leading wolf researcher, and he's found that while they will occasionally consume berries, they don't digest them well, and they specifically avoid the stomach contents of their prey. Most often, grass and whatnot are used for emetic purposes (ie - nature's ipecac).
Your fun fact of the day. :drinker:
Yes, I've seen cats eat grass... just to puke it right back up. So I guess they use it in a similar way as dogs. lol
I've had a fair amount of exposure to wolves (and research conducted on them) in the sub-Arctic. There are differing opinions. I am ok with considering them carnivores (because they are-but I consider my DOG an omnivore) but they can certainly tolerate some plant matter, and they actually do seek out berries purposefully. They do not always avoid the stomach contents of their prey. Many prey are eaten whole.0 -
My free range chickens never had orange yolks
'Free range' is not a legally defined term. Many farms use it if the chickens have a pen outside of their coop where they can walk around. It may be (and usually is) dirt, with no vegetation or insects, so that the term 'free range' is nutritionally null. Chickens with access to a yard with grass, weeds and other vegetation - along with insects and other protein sources - and not augmented with grain feeds will have darker yolks.
The orange in a yolk comes from the amount of beta carotene in their diet. If chickens have access to a yard with plants as well as insects, their yolks will be darker than eggs that are either grain fed or grain augmented.
While you are right that modern chickens are the product of selective breeding, that doesn't make them 'unnatural'. Primitive chicken stock still exists in southeastern Asia, and they can and do interbreed with modern varieties.Chickens themselves are not natural and are a product of selective breeding by man.
Actually it's the other way around. Restricting a chickens diet - or feeding them food they normally wouldn't eat - produces a pale yolk. A normal diet of vegetation and insects, produces darker yolks - they higher the beta carotene, the darker. Try adding carrot shavings to your chickens diet (a high beta carotene source). The eggs will go orange in a hurry.I have no doubt you could influence a chickens yolk to turn orange by restricting its diet but yellow is the normal color.
Thanks for spelling it out. All the true free range eggs (witnessed in person) that I have had did have dark yolks and they were delicious. The big box store "free range" eggs? Not so much.0 -
My chickens are free range in the sense that they get out in to the yard on a daily basis and roam about eating bugs, seeds, etc. They love tomatoes, actually, as well and strawberries. We had to chicken wire off all the strawberry and tomato plants. Their yolks are dark in color, I would call them orange ... certainly not the typical yellow color of eggs bought at the store. Also, both yolks and whites are much thicker than store bought eggs ... they "stand up" when you crack them in a pan compared to the stuff from the store.
I don't consider breeding animals or plants through selective breeding techniques to be unnatural in the sense that splicing genes under a microscope is.0 -
Dogs can be classed as omnivores but not cats. Dogs will eat berries, roots, grass etc. But being omnivorous does not mean they could survive (in the wild THRIVE is the only way to be likely to survive) as vegetarians. No. I would argue the same for humans.
Technically speaking, cats will also eat things like grass, but that doesn't make them omnivores (they're considered obligate carnivores, as they can't absorb certain nutrients from non-animal foods). L. David Mech is the leading wolf researcher, and he's found that while they will occasionally consume berries, they don't digest them well, and they specifically avoid the stomach contents of their prey. Most often, grass and whatnot are used for emetic purposes (ie - nature's ipecac).
Your fun fact of the day. :drinker:
Yes, I've seen cats eat grass... just to puke it right back up. So I guess they use it in a similar way as dogs. lol
I've had a fair amount of exposure to wolves (and research conducted on them) in the sub-Arctic. There are differing opinions. I am ok with considering them carnivores (because they are-but I consider my DOG an omnivore) but they can certainly tolerate some plant matter, and they actually do seek out berries purposefully. They do not always avoid the stomach contents of their prey. Many prey are eaten whole.
Dogs are to wolves what domestic chickens are to Red Junglefowl - a domesticated subspecies that can interbreed and will do so if given the opportunity.
According to Mech's research, they'll only eat the stomach contents of small animals, due to the size of the stomach (much the same way animals will "drink milk" by consuming the mammary glands of a lactating prey). Large ungulates, though, if they go after the stomach at all, they tear it open and leave the contents.
I can only go by the research I've seen, though, and we're getting kind of off-topic, anyway.0
This discussion has been closed.