Strength vs. Mass building

kapoorpk

An observation at the gym lately that mass and strength may not be co-related at all. There are some small and relatively skinny guys I have seen lift much more than me and also have seen much bigger guys (usually just large not necessarily muscular) lift much less than me.

So, the observation begs the question whether strength building would always translate into mass building or would it not in some cases? Are there different principals applicable to build strength vs. build mass+strength. The observation confused me a bit.

Some clarity would help.

Thanks.

Rayman79

yep, muscle mass is somewhat correlated with strength but a lot of a persons strength is dependent on neural adaptations. This is why strength training is typically shorter in duration and requires longer periods of recovery, it is very taxing on the central nervous system.

I see guys with physiques a hell of a lot more aesthetic than mine, who obviously have more muscle mass, but in some cases wouldn't be able to hoist up the same weight as they spend a lot of time training for hypertrophy and bugger all time on increasing strength. Afterall, squatting just takes precious time away from the preacher curl and cable pulldowns! :laugh:

Sarauk2sf

They are not directly correlated.

Strength is from neurological adaptations, which is your body developing its ability to activate muscle fibers by increasing the frequency of neural impulses sent to the brain as well as improving intra- and inter-muscle coordination. Basically, your brain is better at talking to your muscles.

Mass gains are more at the metabolic and cellular level.

You can have strength gains without mass gains. The act of training for mass gains invariably incorporates some neurological adaptations however in most situations.

alpha_andy

You are referring to the differences in training methods which promote the two types of muscle growth: sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and myofibrillar hypertrophy. I could go on and on but you may as well just read here:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hale6.htm

kapoorpk

Ok, I understand the difference. So if I need to gain muscle, sounds like I would need to focus on mass building more so than strength. Two questions:

1) Could I not pursue strength and mass gain both - one of the two days of each muscle group workouts could focus on one vs. the other? Is it effective or must I pick one approach?

2) Is the approach to pursue either correct as stated below:

Mass building gain - fewer exercises per muscle group, moderate weights, 3 sets with reps unto 12 or failure
Strength - avoid failure, but reduce reps, increase sets and weight

Please advise.

Thanks

Sarauk2sf

Ok, I understand the difference. So if I need to gain muscle, sounds like I would need to focus on mass building more so than strength. Two questions:

1) Could I not pursue strength and mass gain both - one of the two days of each muscle group workouts could focus on one vs. the other? Is it effective or must I pick one approach?

2) Is the approach to pursue either correct as stated below:

Mass building gain - fewer exercises per muscle group, moderate weights, 3 sets with reps unto 12 or failure
Strength - avoid failure, but reduce reps, increase sets and weight

Please advise.

Thanks

You can absolutely train for both and in fact they are complementary and I would recommend doing both - you just focus more on one v the other depending on your goals. You can split your hyper range lifts and do on a different day or you can do in the same session, depending on your schedule. This may help re the rep ranges: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/850719-strength-training-the-basics . Something to note is that there is evidence to suggest that shorter rest periods (60 - 90 seconds) is more optimal for hypertrophy (mass gain).

tomcornhole

Tagging to follow. I am doing 5/3/1 for strength and then I add the Boring But Big accessory at the end which is a hypertrophy routine. I am hoping that gives me the best of both worlds. Although it is reallllllyyyy hard on my body and requires a longer recovery than if I do just 5/3/1 or just BBB. But I love the combo, so I am sticking to it for now. And doing it on a deficit is insane.

kapoorpk

Ok, thank you all. Very helpful.

Now, is it more effective to do muscle gain vs. strength on the same day split between the primary vs. the secondary muscle group or split muscle vs. strength for each muscle group into two separate days.

E.g. Mondays - flat bench press & incline bench press both using low range followed by the same muscle group on Wednesday with mid range reps to balance strength and mass gain each week

OR

Monday/Wednesday - bench press w/ mid range reps + incline bench press w/ low range reps splitting the strength/mass gain between the primary vs. secondary exercises on the same muscle group the same day

Which one is a more effective approach?

Please advise.

Thanks

alpha_andy

You should absolutely train for both strength and size as *both* will give you increased muscle. Training for size will increase the total size of the muscle (including space between muscle cells), but training for strength will literally add new muscle cells.

There is scientific evidence which shows that muscle gained from strength training will last longer if you ever stop training so you might keep that in mind.

Chief_Rocka

The skinny guys don't eat enough