Form check videos
lwoodroff
Posts: 1,431 Member
I thought it might be nice to collect these in one place, so they are easier to refer back to than disappearing down the list...
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Great idea.0
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sorry that these are a bit all over the place, I started by propping it on the next rack over for the 40kg ones, then someone started using it so I propped it on the grab rail for the second set, and finally got someone else to take the third set (both at 50kg) although my request to get head and feet in obviously fell on deaf ears.. *sigh*
instant thought is that I'm squatting too low! this isn't just below parallel, it's getting towards ATG.. which might explain why it's harder to get out of the hole at heavy weights.. other thoughts very welcome
thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgl4biHzQlE 40kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlovHDC7TzY 50kg set one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZOw3QihEFw 50kg set two 0 -
It might be useful to add some suggestions for filming these videos. High on my list would be:
* Head and feet are visible, and camera is level. Knees are also visible. If you are asking for form critiques on the press, the entire bar path should be visible, so put the camera far enough away.
* Lighting is sufficiently good to see all body parts. If you are wearing dark pants against a dark background, choose some with stripes, otherwise it is hard to see if you are hitting depth.
* The camera is not at the level of the foot, but rather at hip level or higher. Otherwise depth in squats is hard to see.
* Show your set-up--the way you unrack and re-rack the bar are important. Do not show the time it takes you to psych yourself up for the lift; the video should be reasonably short because some of us need to replay it to see details, and ain't nobody got the patience for a 10 minute form video. Either film a new video or edit it.
* For squats, show a side view and a back view if you can; if you can only show one view, 45 degrees from the back would be ideal. For deadlifts, a front view at 45 degrees would be more useful. For bench, a full front or back view is useful for forearm position, as is a side view.
* Check your form yourself first--if you see obvious glaring problems, like not hitting depth on squats or a seriously non-vertical path on the press, it probably isn't worth posting here, as we'll just tell you what you already know.
* The weight should be challenging but not your 5 RM max (certainly not 1 RM max). At too light a weight, problems will not be as apparent, and nobody can lift 1 RM with perfect form--if you are doing that, it's not really a max for you.0 -
Lydia, your squats look pretty good--the main problem I see in your squats is a knee slide, which is affecting your bar path. The bar path looks best in the last set. In the second set, you can see a sort of inverted J path. There are several things that could be affecting it, but the knee slide is the easiest and most important to fix first. TUBOW is your friend It will also help you hit proper depth, because it's hard to keep knees in place when you squat as deep as you do.
Shoving the knees hard out and trying to keep them in the same place during the bottom 2/3rds of the movement (both on the way down and up) helps me with this.
[EDIT: decyphering things for newer people reading this] A knee slide happens when the knees travel forward at the bottom of the squat, and this can be especially problematic if they move beyond the toes. The Terribly Useful Block of Wood prop is something you use to prevent yourself from doing this--put a block of wood that's about 2.5 feet long in front of your toes, touching the toes of one of the feet. Aim to touch the block with your knee but not tip it over. The contact should happen in the first half to 1/3rd of the movement, and the knees stay there until you rise back up 2/3rds of the way.0 -
Ooh thank you! I know there is a foam thingy for the bar at the gym, might try your trick of standing that upright although the setup might be challenging! I don't think the good morning ing happened as much, maybe because being filmed you are that much more focused!0
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Ooh thank you! I know there is a foam thingy for the bar at the gym, might try your trick of standing that upright although the setup might be challenging! I don't think the good morning ing happened as much, maybe because being filmed you are that much more focused!
I thought it would be hard to work around TUBOW, too, but it turned out to be pretty straightforward. (And yes, mine is more of a TUBOF, since I use the foam cylinder thingy that's already at the gym. It works well.) What I do is set it in position where my feet will be when I squat, and after unracking, I walk back to it. Since I squat with my toes out, I don't even have to worry too much about knocking it over--it's slightly to the side of where my feet are when I unrack.0 -
First time deadlifting with the big girl plates. My form got sloppy on the last rep as I was tired, so I bounced the bar up and down my legs. You can't see my feet, but they are shoulder-width apart, and about 2" from the bar. I know they should only be about 1" from the bar but I feel like my form gets set up better like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31SSvfNrV1k 0 -
First time deadlifting with the big girl plates. My form got sloppy on the last rep as I was tired, so I bounced the bar up and down my legs. You can't see my feet, but they are shoulder-width apart, and about 2" from the bar. I know they should only be about 1" from the bar but I feel like my form gets set up better like this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31SSvfNrV1k
Yay, congrats on moving to 135!
I can't see everything I would like to see, but here are some things I noticed. Your arms are comparatively short--I think we are the same height (5'9"), and my gorilla arms reach the middle of my femur, halfway down to the knees. Yours do not extend much below your hip crease. So for you it will be especially important to take a sufficiently narrow grip--your hands should be just outside your shins in the bottom position. I cannot see this feature of your lift in the video, but make sure to pay attention to that when you set up.
The biggest issue I see right now is back rounding. It isn't too bad, but it's there on some reps, so try to be more conscious of it.
From about rep 3 onward, the back angle is too horizontal. You have long legs, so you would use a more horizontal back position than I would, but I don't think it needs to be quite as horizontal as it is right now. Lift your chest up at the beginning of each rep--the cue is to point your chest at the wall in front of you. This is hard to do with a rounded back, too, but it will also make the angle slightly less horizontal. But overall, it's pretty good, at least to my eye.0 -
Yes, I have short little T-Rex arms and long legs. Very disproportionate, LOL.
Thank you for the tips - I'll definitely focus on chest up. That's becoming a common theme for me to work on with each move, LOL. And regarding grip width, my hands touch the outside of my thighs when I'm upright. Is that right?
Thanks!0 -
Yes, I have short little T-Rex arms and long legs. Very disproportionate, LOL.
Thank you for the tips - I'll definitely focus on chest up. That's becoming a common theme for me to work on with each move, LOL. And regarding grip width, my hands touch the outside of my thighs when I'm upright. Is that right?
Thanks!
Shorter arms are an asset for pressing and pull-ups/chins, so I wouldn't knock 'em.
Sounds like the hand position is fine (see fig. 4-38 of Starting Strength)--as long as the arms are upright, you are using the most efficient arm position.
For attaining a less horizontal back angle with longer legs, it can help to point your toes and knees out more. That would be fig. 4-40 in SS and associated discussion.0 -
Thanks for the image references in SS. I love that book.0
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A couple of things from my non expert standpoint.. the back rounding has been mentioned, but I also believe that if you had a bar running from your head to your butt it would touch at 3 points. I think your head might be a bit high rather than in line? I'd also suggest thinking of driving your hips up and forward as the main source of impetus. Hope that helps, sure someone will point out if I'm wrong! :-)
Edited for Fricking tiny keyboard issues!0 -
I was also noticing that my head isn't in a straight line. Wasn't sure how critical that is for the DL?0
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I was also noticing that my head isn't in a straight line. Wasn't sure how critical that is for the DL?
I generally try to keep the neck neutral, and there is an argument for not extending the cervical spine since the traps are connected to the vertebrae and are under considerable load. As long as you are looking forward and slightly down, you should be okay. If you look at Fig. 4-30, you'll see that the more horizontal the back angle of the lifter, the more acute the neck angle to the rest of the spine. Although that could be an accident of the pics they chose. Anyway, your head/neck position didn't look extreme to me.
The one thing I definitely wouldn't do is turn my neck either during the ascent or at the top of the lift--that's asking for a neck injury. (It has nothing to do with your video--I just thought I'd mention it while we're on necks and deadlifts.)0 -
The one thing I definitely wouldn't do is turn my neck either during the ascent or at the top of the lift--that's asking for a neck injury. (It has nothing to do with your video--I just thought I'd mention it while we're on necks and deadlifts.)
That's honestly good to know. You don't really think about things like that.0 -
Lydia, I do see a couple of things in your squats that could be addressed, but overall it looks good.
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As bumblebums was saying, your knees are very far forward. They're also too far in, which is why they're sliding forward.
Get down into your bottom-of-the-squat position, stick your elbows into the insides of your knees, and force them as far apart as you can. That is where they need to be in the bottom of the squat (or as close as possible, anyway). Spend a few minutes hanging out in this position to get the feel for where your knees need to go. This will protect your knees!! Under heavy load, with your knees so far forward, there is a lot of strain on the ligaments of the inside edges of your knees, and you definitely don't want that.
Try this while doing an air squat:
1) Position your toes pointing nearly straight forward. Don't let them point out more than about 10 degress.
2) Tighten your glutes as hard as you can.
3) Screw your feet into the ground -- this should feel like you're trying to force your toes to point out even though they stay pointing forward. You should feel torque from your feet all the way to your hips. The twist should make your feet arch a bit, too.
4) Hold your hands at about shoulder height with your thumbs a few inches apart, shoulders pulled back and down.
5) Think about your rib cage and its alignment with your pelvis. Most people at this point will have their rib cage tilted back slightly, and need to pull the front of the rib cage down so that it is aligned with the pelvis.
6) Lock everything into place by tightening your abs. At this point you should feel really solid from shoulders to hips, and you should still feel that twist from floor to hips.
7) All those muscles you feel in that twist? Twist them even harder as you use them, your glutes, and your hamstrings to pull yourself down into the squat. Do it slowly so you can control how far you go -- don't go down so far that you lose tightness in the hole. Take video from a 45 degree angle to the front so you can see what's happening with your knees. If you're maintaining that torque, your knees will go out instead of forward. Your shin angle should also be much more vertical. Best of all, when you get the hang of it, your squat will feel stronger and more solid.
8) All that tension you've built up twisting and pulling into the bottom of the squat? Unleash it to come back up, finishing with your glutes tight again (like the lockout of a deadlift). You may be surprised at how much power you feel coming up out of the hole if you didn't go too deep.
The "too deep" part is related to individual hip mobility. Past a certain point, the hips can't flex anymore and additional depth is achieved only by changing the angle of the lumbar spine... it rounds forward (the infamous "butt wink") to get the extra depth. You never want the amount of flexion or extension in any part of your spine to change during the lift! When that happens, your back is doing some of the work of the lift, which it shouldn't be. Its job is purely isometric -- all it should be doing is maintaining position. Bottom line is that if your spine changes flexion or extension under load, especially a load like a heavy squat or deadlift, it makes you susceptible to injury.
Practice doing air squats until the whole sequence of setting up like this doesn't seem like SO MUCH anymore. (Because for awhile, it totally does feel like oh, so very much! lol) Then get under the empty bar. You want to get all that tightness and torque in place BEFORE lifting the bar out. Once you're under load, it's much harder to establish tension. You need to be tight before lifting out the bar and then maintain it till the lift is done.
It's a lot of work, but when I reworked my squat form this way a few months ago after an injury, I was absolutely amazed at how much better my squat began to feel. Also, I strongly recommend Kelly Starrett's site and book (mobilitywod.com and Becoming a Supple Leopard, respectively) for learning more about this technique. One of my training partners, a competitive powerlifter, had stalled on his squat for over a year. His PR is 395 (IIRC he weighs about 155). He took a couple of months to rework his squat and is currently running a cycle of Smolov (very intense program he's run a couple of times during the stall) and based on his progress it looks like he's finally going to break 400 when he tests after the cycle. He'd been squatting with an arch in his back till he read in the Supple Leopard book about exactly how and why that was making his squat less efficient.
I hope this helps!0 -
Wow. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to go into such amazing detail!!
I will print this off, and work to comprehend and put into practice. I am sure I can squat more, and it is the form holding me back.
Thank you!0 -
You can absolutely squat more!! It is NOT strength holding you back. That is very clear from your videos.) 0
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First time deadlifting with the big girl plates. My form got sloppy on the last rep as I was tired, so I bounced the bar up and down my legs. You can't see my feet, but they are shoulder-width apart, and about 2" from the bar. I know they should only be about 1" from the bar but I feel like my form gets set up better like this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31SSvfNrV1k
Yay, congrats on moving to 135!
[snip]
The biggest issue I see right now is back rounding. It isn't too bad, but it's there on some reps, so try to be more conscious of it.
From about rep 3 onward, the back angle is too horizontal. You have long legs, so you would use a more horizontal back position than I would, but I don't think it needs to be quite as horizontal as it is right now. Lift your chest up at the beginning of each rep--the cue is to point your chest at the wall in front of you. This is hard to do with a rounded back, too, but it will also make the angle slightly less horizontal. But overall, it's pretty good, at least to my eye.
Agreed. Here's a cue that might help... when you're setting up, before you pull, try to put your shoulder blades in your back pockets.
Then move your weight back to your heels and drive your heels through the floor to stand up. We talk about deadlifts as pulls, but that leads some people to think they need to pull from their arms and shoulders and that will throw you off -- the arms only attach the weight to your body. Your legs and hips do all the work. At the top of the rep, pause for a second and fully lock out... knees straight, glutes tight as possible, shoulders back.
Also, I know this is the stronglifts forum and it's all predicated on sets of 5, but for deadlift that's not really optimal. I'm a strong advocate for singles only for deadlift. To lift maximal weights, you need both strength and skill. Skill comes from practicing a motor pattern consistently and correctly many, many times. Since deadlifts are done for much less volume than the other lifts due to their taxing nature, you get less practice. If you do sets of deadlifts, even if they're not touch-and-go, you still only practice the setup once per set of five or however many you're doing. If you do singles (set up, lift, lower the bar, step away from the bar, repeat) for a "set" of five, you've practiced the entire lift five times instead of once, allowing you to develop skill more effectively than you can doing traditional sets. Additionally, each time you complete a rep and do not fully reset and set up all over again, the bar and your body will be in a slightly different position, which typically leads to form degrading through the set. This means you are practicing that motor pattern inconsistently. Skill development will be slower when you practice form correctly for one rep and slightly differently for 4 subsequent reps than when you practice it as close to the same as possible for 5 reps in a row.
For anyone who's interested, SSPT (home of Matt Gary and Suzanne Hartwig-Gary, who are phenomenal powerlifters (she recently took bronze at IPF World's)) has a video explaining how to program for this approach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q3CTfHSBTg Or, if you prefer to stick to a stronglifts-style program and are worried you may not be increasing strength as much because of the 5-10 seconds of rest it takes to set up all over again between pulls (time under tension does matter, after all), just do 7 or 8 pulls instead of 5.
Also, for you specifically, as your form tightens up, focus on making each rep (including warmups) as explosive as possible. This will help as the weights get heavier -- and feels awesome! Keep up the great work!1 -
M2b, tried your suggestions tonight. Wow that was hard! And that was in the living room with the huz reading out the instructions! How wide apart for the feet facing forward step one? Also the first exercise has my knees much further apart than usual so lots to work on... Thank you again!0
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M2b, tried your suggestions tonight. Wow that was hard! And that was in the living room with the huz reading out the instructions! How wide apart for the feet facing forward step one? Also the first exercise has my knees much further apart than usual so lots to work on... Thank you again!
Starrett's terminology (e.g., the use of the word "torque") never made sense to me, either... He has private definitions of certain words (like "torque", which is not used the way he uses it in either anatomy nor physics). Then again, I only read about 1/3 of his book before I threw it at the wall. I think it happened on p. 80 when I saw a picture of him demonstrating an above-parallel barbell squat. Sorry to all his fans
Again, explaining for anyone who is confused about the toes out vs. parallel feet issue: Rippetoe (of Starting Strength) teaches the squat with toes out 30 degrees, which, according to him, makes it easier for some inflexible people to attain depth, and it also allows you to engage the adductors as part of the posterior chain. Starrett teaches the squat with feet parallel. It *is* harder to attain depth with your feet parallel--but since attaining depth isn't your problem, that stance might work for you.
In general, Rip recommends deviating from a 30 degree angle based on what your natural stance is. If you are duck-footed, you wouldn't use the same stance as someone who is pigeon-toed. this said, people move large weights with a variety of stances. I see more powerlifting meet videos with toes out, not parallel. Experiment, and decide what works for you.0 -
Thanks bb, ny natural stance is around hip width or marginally wider, and toes out to 5 to 1 position so not very far out. The pushing of the knees out has some way to go, and monster's description of screwing the feet into the ground was very helpful in feeling all the muscles activate and tighten. Now to put it together in a repeatable way!0
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Thanks bb, ny natural stance is around hip width or marginally wider, and toes out to 5 to 1 position so not very far out. The pushing of the knees out has some way to go, and monster's description of screwing the feet into the ground was very helpful in feeling all the muscles activate and tighten. Now to put it together in a repeatable way!
"Screwing the feet into the ground" is basically the same thing as "shoving the knees out"--you are externally rotating your femurs inside the hip joints. In order to do this, you use your adductors, and to some extent also hamstrings--especially at the bottom and right out of the hole. This is where most people will have problems, as our quads are usually pretty overdeveloped compared to hamstrings (this is especially the case for women, hence the frequent knee injuries for female athletes compared to males). And adductor strength is even harder to come by.0 -
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Also, I know this is the stronglifts forum and it's all predicated on sets of 5, but for deadlift that's not really optimal. I'm a strong advocate for singles only for deadlift. To lift maximal weights, you need both strength and skill. Skill comes from practicing a motor pattern consistently and correctly many, many times. Since deadlifts are done for much less volume than the other lifts due to their taxing nature, you get less practice. If you do sets of deadlifts, even if they're not touch-and-go, you still only practice the setup once per set of five or however many you're doing. If you do singles (set up, lift, lower the bar, step away from the bar, repeat) for a "set" of five, you've practiced the entire lift five times instead of once, allowing you to develop skill more effectively than you can doing traditional sets. Additionally, each time you complete a rep and do not fully reset and set up all over again, the bar and your body will be in a slightly different position, which typically leads to form degrading through the set. This means you are practicing that motor pattern inconsistently. Skill development will be slower when you practice form correctly for one rep and slightly differently for 4 subsequent reps than when you practice it as close to the same as possible for 5 reps in a row.
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Thanks for this information. I noticed today that I don't do Deadlifts as 5 x 1, I do them as 1 x 5. I always walk away and have a break between lifts. I think I'm actually now (at 60kg) at my 1RM. I'm glad to know that my wandering around the gym for a little bit is a good thing, not me being a dodgy deadlifter!!
Cheers! :drinker:0 -
"Screwing the feet into the ground" is basically the same thing as "shoving the knees out"--
indeed, but my 'shoving the knees out' was knee-centric, it didn't start from the feet and travel all the way up to the hips. now I've felt what that feels like as a properly connected sensation it will hopefully help, as you observed my knees aren't that far out (although it felt like it!) and I know I have to really really really get them out!0 -
Thanks bb, ny natural stance is around hip width or marginally wider, and toes out to 5 to 1 position so not very far out. The pushing of the knees out has some way to go, and monster's description of screwing the feet into the ground was very helpful in feeling all the muscles activate and tighten. Now to put it together in a repeatable way!
"Screwing the feet into the ground" is basically the same thing as "shoving the knees out"--you are externally rotating your femurs inside the hip joints. In order to do this, you use your adductors, and to some extent also hamstrings--especially at the bottom and right out of the hole. This is where most people will have problems, as our quads are usually pretty overdeveloped compared to hamstrings (this is especially the case for women, hence the frequent knee injuries for female athletes compared to males). And adductor strength is even harder to come by.
^This. Which cue you use isn't really what matters -- it's what it cues you to do. For some people, one cue will make things click and they'll figure out what they need to do to make it work, while other people will hear that same cue and think they're doing it but then someone explains it in a different way and suddenly it all makes sense and they're able to improve their form. "Chest up" in the deadlift works perfectly well for plenty of people, but for others they just go into thoracic extension without engaging their lats. "Put your shoulder blades in your back pockets" often helps those people.
Similarly, bumblebums clearly knows what she's doing, and I have enough of a clue to be able to help here and there. But we approach the same issues in different ways... she is frustrated by Starrett's approach, while it has done me a world of good and allowed me to address minor injuries and keep lifting, safely. Meanwhile, while Rippetoe's approaches are sound for most people, his elbows-up approach (internally rotating the shoulders) to squat bar position is what caused my old rotator cuff injury to flare up. This is one of the reasons it's so valuable to post form check videos. Get feedback from multiple people in different ways, and there's a decent chance that one of those ways will be the one that makes things click for you.)
(Edited to fix a typo. Because if you don't fix typos, the errorists win.)1 -
*snort at errorists* love it!
and you are all so fabulous and I am soooo grateful! gym tonight to try and put some of this into practice (back to the bar on squats then..) 1 -
Monster, thank you for the feedback/tips on my deadlift! I like the idea of tucking my shoulder blades into my back pockets. Easy to visualize. :-)0
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hey amyrebeccah can you get a vid of your squats from the side?, your deadlift vid is another squat video
OHP: try straightening your wrists and pushing your elbows forward of the bar. Also move your head out of the way rather than moving the bar around, you want the bar to travel straight up (mind your chin)0 -
A few videos--feedback appreciated. I tried to get the best shots possible but my home gym is in a small bedroom with less than ideal lighting. Thank you in advance!
Squat--75 pounds. I've actually been working hard on correcting this hip shift that is in the 4th rep. So of course, once I get up the nerve to post about it, I accidentally up my weight (it had been down at 70) and I'm still able to avoid it on almost every set-I only posted the one where it happened. I imagine this may be a regular challenge, so, any advice there is appreciated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15DmYbOoFmQ
OHP--60 pounds. First time at this weight--it's been a challenge since the bar, so I wasn't surprised that I couldn't complete a set. This one had the best angle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MonO910yGgs
Deadlift--135 pounds. This was my third time at this weight.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15DmYbOoFmQ
What girlie said about OHP, and the frame of the squat video is too close and not at a good angle for me to say anything helpful.
I found the deadift vid in your channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIWxdIqEij0
There are two big things you will need to fix the next time you attempt this lift--they are major problems that can result in injury. First, your back is rounded, both the thoracic and lumbar areas. This is something that advanced lifters can get away with, but it is not good practice for a beginner to lift with a rounded lumbar spine. Set your back in extension before you lift the bar off the floor by pointing your chest at the wall in front of you.
The other thing is that the bar is not in contact with your legs on the way up or down. The bar should be dragged up your legs for maximum mechanical efficiency. The way it is right now, it is pulling you forward of your center of gravity, and coupled with the rounded back, that can easily result in an injury.
Here is a step-by-step guide for setting up for the deadlift:The Deadlift: Perfect Every Time
1. Take your stance, feet a little closer than you think it needs to be and with your toes out more than you like. Your shins should be about one inch from the bar, no more. This places the bar over the mid-foot – the whole foot, not the mid-instep.
2. Take your grip on the bar, leaving your hips up. DO NOT MOVE THE BAR.
3. Drop your knees forward and out until your shins touch the bar. DO NOT MOVE THE BAR.
4. Hard part: squeeze your chest up as hard as you can. DO NOT MOVE THE BAR. This establishes a "wave" of extension that goes all the way down to the lumbar, and sets the back angle from the top down. DO NOT LOWER YOUR HIPS – LIFT THE CHEST TO SET THE BACK ANGLE.
5. Squeeze the bar off the floor and drag it up your legs in contact with your skin/sweats until it locks out at the top. If you have done the above sequence precisely as described, the bar will come off the ground in a perfectly vertical path. All the slack will have come out of the arms and hamstrings in step 4, the bar will not jerk off the ground, and your back will be in good extension. You will perceive that your hips are too high, but if you have completed step 4 correctly, the scapulas, bar, and mid-foot will be in vertical alignment and the pull will be perfect. The pull will seem "shorter" this way.
Source: http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=19833&p=182468#post1824680
