Lose the fat first?

yogicarl

Serious question - I am 5 feet 3 inches and weigh 162lbs. I think I should be around 140 and that is with some muscle development overall.

I practise yoga at an intermediate level and also Back/Bicep, Chest/Tricep, Legs calisthenic split routines twice a week. I swim for cardio, also some cycling to work when I can; around 30 miles per week.

I can do one chin-up in good form and - if on a day I manage to get down to around 159lbs I can do 2 chin-up reps. So I know it is my fat weight which is holding my chin-ups and eventually pull-ups back. I am in effect doing weighted chin-ups!

My question is - because I feel sore in the biceps tendon area for days after my chin-up day, am I risking injury and should I aim to lose at least half this overweight before I commit to the pull-up bar?

wild_wild_life

I would think that putting off chins/pull ups altogether until you lose weight would be counterproductive as you would also lose some of the muscle mass needed to do those movements. If you continue to do them, you will retain more muscle and be stronger in the end.

If one full chin up is basically your 1RM, it makes sense to make it a bit easier for yourself and do more reps to build strength -- assisted or negative pull ups might be better, as you can do more and risk less injury.

I don't do chin ups personally due to wrist problems - I do think they are more bicep-focused than pull ups, but I know with pull ups you are supposed to really focus on the muscles in the upper back to pull you up, rather than your arms. If your biceps are bothering you, you may be over-using them in the movement and need to focus on engaging more muscles. Just a thought.

yogicarl

Makes sense - thank you.

I am also working out ways to lighten the load so I can work in the 5-8 reps range per set. I am using resistance bands on the pull-up bar and as an alternative, use a stepladder to rest my heels on at waist height so I am reducing the bodyweight to lift but also cannot use the legs to help the contraction - I find it too easy to cheat using leg strength.

darrensurrey

It's not that you're too heavy. I was heavier than you and cranking out 15+ pull ups. The problem is that your tendons and ligaments are not used to the weight that's suddenly being put on it. Reducing the weight by using a big toe for support or bands is probably wise. You will eventually allow your connective tissue to strengthen and it won't be a problem.

I would also look at doing horizontal rows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRoCPqHG8ok

yogicarl

Thanks Darren. Yes, definitely tendon limitations as I can carry on working the muscles (rowing, bicep curls, inverted rows etc) after my chin-ups as these are working the muscles more than the tendons.

If I can find a way to get my chin-up reps in around the 6-8 rep range that would be a way forward I think.

darrensurrey

Keep doing them and the connective tissue will catch up eventually.

acoustictones

Assuming you have access to a gym with an assited pull-up machine I would consider using that to help grow into your pull-ups as well. Of course a chair could and would work too, but I just love using the assitted machine to help me verses a chair.

I would like to build up to a higher number of pull-ups so here was my routine the other day:

-Choose a weight that will allow you to do 10-15 (you choose your ideal number of reps in that range)
-Rest 30-60 seconds
-Reduce the weight and do your max
-Rest 30-60 seconds
-Reduce the weight and do your max
-Rest 30-60 seconds
-Reduce the weight and do your max

So in all you have done 4 total sets and on each your reps may have gone down, but your weight has gone up. You're still getting some assistance (you determine how much), and focus on the best form you can, and you are building your strength, endurance, grip and developing good form.

*I don't believe one program is right for eveyone, but this has really been helping me. I noticed that both my grip and form were week, and so trying to doing things unassitted was just making my form sloppy and my lack of grip strength wasn't helping me much either. This allows me more time on the bars, improving my forarm and grip strength, has helped get my joints and all of their connective tissues used to the movement and work load, helps me to focus on my form and not wiggle or kip all over the place, and I am beginning now to be able to do many more when not at the machine and they look better.

And yes, even losing 10-15 lbs has been helpful. Just less to pull :-)

yogicarl

Thanks accoustictones. I don't have access to an assisted pull-up machine - I work out at home. It is interesting that if I go over 165lbs I can't perform a pull-up, but at 160, I start to see good form, so that is all the incentive I need to lose a further 10-15lbs, when I know I will be in a good bodyweight range to really work these.

Thanks everyone!

acoustictones

All my best to you and your goals. There are quite a few videos on the web showing how most people that do not have access to an assist machine will start with just a little bit of help from a chair, and also from just starting at the top and releasing as slow as possible (working the negative). It's at least a place to start.

Again, just hoping the best for you and wishing you luck on your goals. Go get 'em :happy:

Joanne_Moniz

no; continue with the pull up bar regardless of your weight. As long as your form is proper, and you should have a trainer check to see if it is, you are fine. Your biceps will be sore but there is a difference between hurt and harm

norulesjustplay

Back/Bicep, Chest/Tricep, Legs calisthenic split routines twice a week.

whyyyy? You will literally make no progress at all.
Splits are bad for beginners at lifting and even worse for calisthenics. Go read 'overcoming gravity' and get a full body workout 3x/week.

Also this might work on upping your pull up max:

yogicarl

Thank you Norulesjustplay.

Two reasons I have been doing split routines is:

1. I can easily do movements for Pushing and Legs at work in the day when I have more energy, but cannot easily work the back or do pullups at work.

2. Splitting Back work from Push/Legs enables me to focus on pullups which I am struggling with.

I do see your points though and will re-think my weekly schedule.

Thank you for the link to Grease the Groove.

norulesjustplay

I don't think it's that important when you do your training, except ofcourse if you really see less results yourself.
I have been training fasted while on a cut and I have been training in the late evening with as only food during the day being 4 eggs, some bacon and some lettuce that I ate. I never felt like I was too tired or that I didn't have enough energy.

The problem with splits is that you target your muscle 'groups' only once/week. VOLUME is more important than intensity if you want to gain strength or mass (for example: prison inmates and female/male gymnasts). Calisthenics is a lot of skill work and when you only train pull ups once/week the body won't care, while if you do them 3 times/week you will get stronger because you are practicing that compound movement and the nervous system is adapting so you can do it more easily.

http://i.imgur.com/nEFpi8D.jpg

For lifting, people take 5 min rests between their sets and for calisthenics this is the same, this is about the time that your muscles need to restore their ATP storage. If you do a full body workout, you might think you will be spending two hours on each training. Actually one hour is more than enough, because you can combine two exercises working on opposing muscle groups so you only take 2.5 minutes between sets.

http://i.imgur.com/2Xk6g6B.jpg

I hope these help, as you can see I kinda swear by this book. Steven Low is a bit the calisthenics version of Mark Rippetoe as 'Overcoming gravity' is comparable to 'Starting Strength'.

yogicarl

Thank you. Would you say I was still splitting my routine if I did Pushing and Legs movements early in the day and then Pulling movements later on the same day - and that same routine 3 x week?

My only problem with doing pull-ups and chin-ups at work is I would not be allowed to put up a pull-up bar anywhere, but I can easily do pushing and leg exercises anywhere.

I understand what you say about volume and central nervous system as I see the same principles in my yoga practise.

norulesjustplay

nope, that shouldn't make it a split that magically absorbs all your gains. You might even be able to get more out of the training because you have rested longer.

yogicarl

- thank you - sounds like a plan.