Joel Fuhrman: low macro/high micro eating - reader thoughts?

Fithealthyforlife

I read through a good amount of one of his books on diabetes, and I have a lot of issues with some of what he advocates in terms of diet. I actually got the way I am now (skinny) due to a restricted diet (but nowhere near as restricted as his plan). This was unintentional on my part; I didn't set out to lose muscle mass intentionally.

One of my main questions though (and I'd like to keep this discussion civil and unbiased despite my own bias against many of his ideas) is what do others who have read his material think about it?

The biggest issue I have with his way of eating, is that for someone doing a slow bulk like me, literally 5-10 lbs of plant material would have to consumed a day to achieve proper macros. I simply don't have the stomach for that, and I doubt many do.

Thank you.

Sarauk2sf

Not a fan....at all. He ranks up there with Lolstig and Taubes. He basically is flogging his books with a few sound bits of logic (yes, micros are important) wrapped in a bunch of bullsh!t.

Macros are important.

Fithealthyforlife

Not a fan....at all. He ranks up there with Lolstig and Taubes. He basically is flogging his books with a few sound bits of logic (yes, micros are important) wrapped in a bunch of bullsh!t.

Macros are important.

Sara,

One thing that really bothers me, is that he and others advocate intentional metabolic slow-down...so you don't use up your heartbeats and telomeres at the ends of your DNA strands, apparently. Fuhrman's plan is really just extreme calorie restriction, nearly vegan eating, and intentional metabolic slowdown wrapped up with the the promise of two positive things: nutrition and micro intake. But in reality, we know that sufficient micro intake alone is not enough. He counters by saying "You'll feel full on less calories." That is not a scientific statement.

Another thing is, while Fuhrman advocates "maintaining" muscle tissue, he evades questions that people ask about actually building muscle on his diet plan. I think the truth is, it's impossible with so few calories and the slowed metabolism that results. In fact, for metabolism to slow down in an already lean person, one would have to lose muscle and even organ tissue slowly over time. And then good luck trying to build muscle later with a metabolic architecture that has de-adapted in that way.

The way I think of it is, the body is dynamic, and always turning over new cells. So, if we want it to function well, we need to encourage normal cellular metabolism, not slow it. Of course, he counters by saying that a "normal" diet encourages over-proliferation of cells, which leads to cancer. He wants us to take our Insulin, IGF-1, levels, etc...way down. I don't want to know what he would think of a "bulking" diet and how many here intentionally eat over maintenance (including me).

The one good thing I learned from him was that Lentils have a ton of protein, even if they don't have a lot of calories.

Sarauk2sf

Re lentils - they are slightly lacking in the EAA Methionine + Cysteine to make them a complete protein, but as long as you get some nuts or grains (which do have it but lack Lysine, which lentils have) sometime in the day, you are all good. [assuming plant based foods only are in question here as meat and dairy are complete proteins].

Fithealthyforlife

Re lentils - they are slightly lacking in the EAA Methionine + Cysteine to make them a complete protein, but as long as you get some nuts or grains (which do have it but lack Lysine, which lentils have) sometime in the day, you are all good. [assuming plant based foods only are in question here as meat and dairy are complete proteins].

Thanks. I would assume that between eating some meat, fish, dairy, and/or wheat in the same day it would help increase Met and Cys levels. I don't eat lentils every week, and when I do, I of course eat other things in the same day!

Or does one need extra Met and Cys above and beyond that found in these foods when eating lentils (in order to keep AA ratios correct)? My biochem class didn't elaborate on this point as it wasn't a nutrition course.

Sarauk2sf

Re lentils - they are slightly lacking in the EAA Methionine + Cysteine to make them a complete protein, but as long as you get some nuts or grains (which do have it but lack Lysine, which lentils have) sometime in the day, you are all good. [assuming plant based foods only are in question here as meat and dairy are complete proteins].

Thanks. I would assume that between eating some meat, fish, dairy, and/or wheat in the same day it would help increase Met and Cys levels. I don't eat Lentils every week, and when I do, I of course eat other things in the same day!

If you eat meat, fish and/or dairy and get most of your protein that way, it's not something to worry about.

Fithealthyforlife

Re lentils - they are slightly lacking in the EAA Methionine + Cysteine to make them a complete protein, but as long as you get some nuts or grains (which do have it but lack Lysine, which lentils have) sometime in the day, you are all good. [assuming plant based foods only are in question here as meat and dairy are complete proteins].

Thanks. I would assume that between eating some meat, fish, dairy, and/or wheat in the same day it would help increase Met and Cys levels. I don't eat Lentils every week, and when I do, I of course eat other things in the same day!

If you eat meat, fish and/or dairy and get most of your protein that way, it's not something to worry about.

Ok. I would assume it's the balance over the whole week that matters more than a single day's amino acid counts.
Correct?

Thanks.

alanlmarshall

Re lentils - they are slightly lacking in the EAA Methionine + Cysteine to make them a complete protein, but as long as you get some nuts or grains (which do have it but lack Lysine, which lentils have) sometime in the day, you are all good. [assuming plant based foods only are in question here as meat and dairy are complete proteins].

Thanks. I would assume that between eating some meat, fish, dairy, and/or wheat in the same day it would help increase Met and Cys levels. I don't eat Lentils every week, and when I do, I of course eat other things in the same day!

If you eat meat, fish and/or dairy and get most of your protein that way, it's not something to worry about.

Ok. I would assume it's the balance over the whole week that matters more than a single day's amino acid counts.
Correct?

Thanks.

Yes, animal products or any reasonable combination of vegetable proteins over time are sufficient.