Just found this group

traceyjj

Hi all
I'm new to this group, though not new to MFP or trying to lose weight... although I'm looking for friends in this group to help and encourage each other.

I'm almost 50 and been post-menopausal for 15 years.

I visited my doc almost 2 years ago as I was struggling to lose, we looked at my MFP food/exercise diary, and he just kept cutting my calories more and more, so I ended up eating less than 1200, and not eating any exercise cals back, finally I stopped asking as the last visit he suggested surgery. Not for me, I've had too many visits to the operation rooms for other surgery, I dont want anything else unless I have to.

I'm just about to change from the MFP way of losing to the TDEE method to see if I can break a 2+month stall in scale movement. It feels like I have been exercising my *kitten* off, but despite being able to lift more weight, do more pushups, walk and swim further and faster, I've not dropped a dress size in almost a year (I have lost inches, but for some reason not a dress size), and not lost much weight either in the past year and its getting beyond frustrating. I've slowly bumped my calories back up to between 1400 and 1600 a day (occasionally more) and I hit the gym 4-5 times a week for a couple of hours each visit! I do a mix of heavy lifting 2 or 3 times a week (currently up to bodyweight deadlifts and half bodyweight bench press, not so good on other lifts yet, but I'm still learning form, swimming always more than 2 kilometer, aqua classes, HIIT and steady state cardio. I often walk the mile and a bit to the gym for that added extra burn lol. Weekends I often walk up to 15 miles each day,

For scoobys calculator what activity level would you class me as?

Thanks in advance to all that help!

Tracey

traceyjj

bumpity bump bump

heybales

3 points to keep in mind I'd suggest as you review your current routine.

1 - Diet is for weight loss, done right just fat loss not musce mass loss.
Exercise is for heart health and body improvement, and if done right can support fat loss though usualy body improvement is not weight loss.

2 - Exercise if done right tears the body down.
Rest for recovery and repair is how it's built back up, stronger if diet is right.

3 - Stress on body messes with hormones and can fight against weight and fat loss.
Diet deficit, frequent intense exercise, food sensitivities/allergies, lack of sleep, illness, life/other - are all stresses that add up.

Just as more deficit in the diet is counter-productive as you've discovered, more exercise can be also.

For instance using a couple things listed in your exercise.
Would you lift with the same muscles 2 or more days in a row? Why not?
Did you know HIIT if done properly (which I rarely find) is a lifting type workout for those that want to do cardio only? All out anaerobic push, rest, repeat 8-10 times. If done right, the response is the same, stronger muscles and growth if diet supports that.
Does your lifting and HIIT routine in essence lifting with the same muscles day after day?
Usually I find it's not true HIIT being done anyway, but just attempting intervals is a wasted workout killing repair process.

Also, lifting to almost failure is different between tired muscles and overloaded muscles, though it may feel the same.
Response to one is more glucose to endure longer next time, response to other is get stronger and grow more possibly.
Now you can be in the range between extremes, but if focus is really on one, you can't get it.
Does a workout proceeding a lifting day tire the muscles out? How would you know unless you compared really?

The jack of all trades, master of none workout method.

If you just went by hours, you'd be above the chart.
But it may not be that bad, but it is a whole lot higher than 1600.
Sadly at this point, you are likely to have a screwed up metabolism, but at least you've probably preserved some muscle mass with lifting, that will be a head start.

Now you just need to get some glucose stores put back with water, which will increase LBM, which will increase metabolism.
Then body needs to see you are going to feed it correctly.

Suggest you use this for best estimate of BMR, and TDEE based on your actual times doing those workouts.
I'd actually suggest you back off the exercise and remove half of that stress, your body doesn't need it right now, it'll only make this take longer.
Leave the walking and the lifting, that's it.

Keep increasing calories weekly, 100 extra daily. Perhaps every other week actually.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/961054-spreadsheet-for-bodyfat-bmr-tdee-progress-tracker

traceyjj

Thanks for taking the time with this detailed answer!

I'm reading through all the stuff and links you posted, and will download the spreadsheet this evening.

I never thought about swimming using the same muscles as my weight lifting! I just saw I could swim further and faster!

My HIIT sessions are usually bike/rowing machine/treadmill related, but sometimes the trainer supersets pullups with kettlebell swings and pushups.

ETA. looking through the rest of the post more thoroughly now...
Thanks again

Tracey

heybales

Just keep in mind your level for the activities.

You swimming 1/2 mile really well could barely get the HR up, showing you are efficient and it wasn't that much of a load on the muscles.
Me would be a different matter altogether.

The poorly fad name fat-burning hr zone, was prior and still called more correctly the Active Recovery HR zone. High enough HR to get the blood flowing, help repairing muscles, but not put additional load on ones trying to heal.
Up to that level is fine the day after, and beneficial.

Spreadsheet HRM tab will help figure those HR zones.

Right after lifting, you can go nuts on cardio, but if the lifting is right, you should be tired enough you really can't. Some brief cardio in aerobic zone to get the healing started is useful. Trying to intervals if you love the feeling is fine, just be aware you aren't getting out of them what you could, because intervals of almost any sort requires fresh muscles for intended effect.

HIIT has really become a fad, even with trainers. It has it's place, just like the fat-burning zone does.
But it's also misapplied, just like the fat burning zone is.

If you do some cardio event where you would benefit from those muscle specifically being strengthen, then HIIT is the answer. Like a race. Lifting probably won't hit all the muscles you need strong and balanced. Good HIIT routine will. up to 20% of the cardio time is beneficial for that, after aerobic base-building is done.

But if you don't have an event, then putting the energy towards the lifting is much better.

traceyjj

Thanks again.
My lifting is new, and each "big" lift is being introduced as I get the form right, and start going up the weights. Im still deadlifting on the trap bar, but I want to move over to the real bar, and as I have a bad knee, the trainer has left squats till last - we should be starting those next week. But I've been doing some sort of resistance work since the first day at the gym so I hope that my muscle loss would be minimised despite me messing up my metabolism. But I know when I have finished lifting with him I feel tired, but I still have enough energy for my brisk walk home.

I think I'll drop the swimming for a few weeks to see if that helps, and move up to the main gym to use the treadmill/bike/elliptical

I dont do events, I've never found one that sounds interesting, but when I was on my group training, HIIT was pushed as the best way to bet most burn in the shortest time by most of the trainers... so every session we did some HIIT at some point in the hour sessions.

Is the only way to reset my metabolism to eat more/exercise less for a few weeks, or was I misunderstanding that?

Thanks again
Tracey

heybales

The reset is intended to remove as much stress as possible for what you have control over, the diet.
But if you have a lot of exercise, should do that too by backing off.
The hope is your body will become unstressed enough to fire back up to full speed, hormones will reset, body won't be fighting against you.

Now, if you just must do that much exercise, then after some weeks of lower level, add it back in gradually while you increase eating level to match it. Hopefully body will see it's going to be fed enough and not get stressed out.

But really, many that have done that much exercise have realized greater success in weight loss by backing off and allowing the diet to actually cause some loss, rather than exercise stressing the body enough to not lose.

Yes, HIIT is a great way to get the most burn post workout compared to easy aerobic cardio - exactly because it's like lifting. Which does that same effect better.

If doing the lifting, you don't need the less effective method of HIIT.

And actually, HIIT doesn't burn that much during the actual activity, just like lifting, compared to a high aerobic level. If done right, usually your avg HR for the pace done is going to be lower than if you just went out and did it steady pace. It's the after effects that burn more, like lifting. And the improvement in strength you are after.

traceyjj

Oh wow, I just filled in the spreadsheet... my TDEG is 2300 calories available. So I can either slowly climb to that, or cut back on my exercise, is that right?

heybales

You got it.

For instance, if you are sure you couldn't eat more than say 2000 calories, then you could start toning down the routine until that is hit.

Like more lifting gives more deficit than cardio, so you could keep lifting and lose some cardio and you'll get more deficit, TDEG will come down as would TDEE of course.

traceyjj

Just reporting back to let you know that I've cut back a little on my exercise. I still lift 3x a week, but I no longer swim massive distances. I felt I was cheating myself for a couple of weeks as I had got used to all that activity!
Added to that, I have upped my food slowly over this past month and now eat about 4-500 more a day than I was, and I jumped on the scales today and they have started to move downwards again! A total of 2lbs in the month. I'm happy with that I just hope this is the start of fueling my body correctly
Thanks for your time in explaining it all to me :drinker:

CanGirl40

Heybales is awesome, isn't he??? Glad the scale is moving in the right direction!

traceyjj

I have to agree... Two thumbs up for Heybales
And thanks

heybales

I have to agree... Two thumbs up for Heybales
And thanks

Did I mention spreadsheet was updated? As of today if you use the FitBit tab, yesterday otherwise.

traceyjj

I have to agree... Two thumbs up for Heybales
And thanks

Did I mention spreadsheet was updated? As of today if you use the FitBit tab, yesterday otherwise.

Thanks! I'll go download a new one!