ketosis help

Lizzard_77

Ok, I have decided to slowly attempt the plunge into ketosis. I mean, slowly as I am currently at 50-75 (sometimes a little more) carbs per day. I am not ready yet but am trying to be concious and reduce my carb intake over a period of time. My husband, who is surprisingly in support of ketosis but not in support of my extended desire for a primal lifestyle, thinks it would be a great idea to help me drop the lbs, but feels it is dangerous if i do it for too long.

I have some friends here who have been doing it for awhile and some who just started but all seem knowledgable and enthusiastic about it. I have been doing some web research and bought/ordered a few books, namely The Ketogenic Diet: A Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner.

My question: What can be the side effects, is this dangerous, how does your body know to burn the fat on your body and not the large amounts of fat you are eating?

My mom and I are super close and she has been on board with me through this process, Whole30 to Paleo to Primal/WAPF. She even is "watching her carbs and sugar intake (she lost a bunch of weight when she was serious about it). But she is really concerned about ketosis and keeps referencing how the Atkins diet killed the creator. She doesn't understand fat adaptability and is concerned about my cholesterol and BP, both have gone down amazingly since I started this, but for some reason this next move really freaks her out. My answer right now is, if my body feels bad then I won't/don't do it, everything is feuled by how my body reacts to it. I would really like to have a better answer.

Rei1988

I'm not very good at explaining things, though I do understand them lol. Did you ever watch fat head? it gives a pretty good explanation of how & why it works. Also http://www.youtube.com/user/eenfeldt/videos may help explain. From what I've learned it IS safe to do a keto diet indefinitely & safely.

kiramaniac

Good article just this week from redditor SkaiFox (and Neuroscience PhD candidate) that has been doing keto for a year and a half.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/2013/10/01/the-fat-fueled-brain-unnatural-or-advantageous/

Has excellent technical explanation of ketosis and how it affects the brain.

kiramaniac

Atkins did not die from the diet.

On April 8, 2003, at age 72, Dr. Atkins slipped on the ice while walking to work, hitting his head and causing bleeding around his brain. He lost consciousness on the way to the hospital, where he spent two weeks in intensive care. His body deteriorated rapidly and he suffered massive organ failure. During this time, his body apparently retained an enormous amount of fluid, and his weight at death was recorded at 258 pounds. His death certificate states that the cause of death was "blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma".

Akimajuktuq

Hey, you did post in a group that i can comment in.

So, we've busted the myth about the death of Dr. Atkins. I see that lie in the main forums all the time and it makes me want to bash my head into the computer screen.

You know me already. Been ketogenic for over 15 months. No bad side effects, only great ones. I do not even have bad breath because I no longer have gum disease.

As I mentioned on your wall, it's NOT dangerous, but extremely low carb might not be for everyone, i.e. 5% carbs. But I think 15% is adequate for everyone, even athletic types. People who eliminate veggies just to lower carbs need to be slapped imo. Carbs from non starchy veggies are not to be avoided.

I mentioned the Inuit. They survived in the harshest of climates in a permanently ketogenic state. They could NOT have survived here if this lifestyle were anything but healthy. I'm not Inuit, and yet I thrive on a ketogenic Paleo lifestyle. I think it's optimal. See my story under "Success Stories". It's one of the pinned topics.

I'm currently at 10% carbs but usually stay well under. I've been adding more fruit cautiously, but they do stimulate me to want to eat more. I've become more active too so thought a few more carbs might help. The jury is still out on whether it's working.

TriLifter

As I mentioned on your wall, it's NOT dangerous, but extremely low carb might not be for everyone, i.e. 5% carbs. But I think 15% is adequate for everyone, even athletic types. People who eliminate veggies just to lower carbs need to be slapped imo. Carbs from non starchy veggies are not to be avoided.

Totally agreed. I'm an endurance athlete and I do just fine with my carbs at 15% (75g) from veggies and fruit.

redheadmommy

I do not think there is a magic number that suit everybody. I would disagree that 15% carb is enough for everybody. It is enough for me, but I am tall , larger person who is slowly losing weight even at 2200 cal daily intake. A 4'9" 100lb female with sedentary lifestyle has only 1200 maintenance calories, which is only 45g! carb at 15%. If the same person is athletic and has active lifestyle maintenance level is still only1600 cal, which still only 60 g carb if the limit is 15%. That is too low for your entire life. ( for short term it is totally fine)
The problem with the very low carb is that you allowed to eat very limited amount of fruits and vegetables, which carry lots of vitamins and minerals. Severely limiting plant food may lead to vitamin deficiencies on the long run. I know you can take multivitamins, but I do not think a diet is sustainable for the rest of your life if it requires vitamin supplementation.

Not all of our ancestors lived on very low carb level for their entire life. For example people lived in warmer climates had much higher carb intake. Yes the inuits did live at very low carb level in their entire life. However they ate every part of their preys like liver, brain, whale skin and whatnot and they often eat those things RAW right after they caught the animal. This is important because some micronutrients for example vitamin C is very sensitive to heat and oxidize with time. Many animal organs like liver has good level of vitamin C , but if you cook it or store it for long, you lose most of it. This is why lots of early sailors developed scurvy , while the inuits did not on a similar low carb level.
So yes it is possible to live and be healthy on extreme low level carb during your entire life , but then you need to eat things that gross out most people like fresh RAW liver, brain and whatnot. I personally like to eat liver, but would never ever swallow it raw.

I really like paleomom view on what is the ideal carb level. She wrote a 3 parts blog post series on how to optimize the carbohydrate level to YOUR body. It is a great read, I highly recomend it.
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/07/optimizing-carbohydrate-intake-for-your.html
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/07/optimizing-carbohydrate-intake-for-your_19.html
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/07/optimizing-carbohydrate-intake-for-your_21.html

Lizzard_77

Wow y'all, great info. Thank you! I have been reading everything I can get my hands on including articles you all pointed me to. I also grabbed an e-book that is advertised by a few of my favorite bloggers http://eatfatlosefatblog.com/shop/lose-weight-with-keto-ketogenic-paleo-diet/ .

I find all of this to be fascinating and am excited to get back to my mom with what I have learned. Thanks again for the info!!

Akimajuktuq

I do not think there is a magic number that suit everybody. I would disagree that 15% carb is enough for everybody. It is enough for me, but I am tall , larger person who is slowly losing weight even at 2200 cal daily intake. A 4'9" 100lb female with sedentary lifestyle has only 1200 maintenance calories, which is only 45g! carb at 15%. If the same person is athletic and has active lifestyle maintenance level is still only1600 cal, which still only 60 g carb if the limit is 15%. That is too low for your entire life. ( for short term it is totally fine)
The problem with the very low carb is that you allowed to eat very limited amount of fruits and vegetables, which carry lots of vitamins and minerals. Severely limiting plant food may lead to vitamin deficiencies on the long run. I know you can take multivitamins, but I do not think a diet is sustainable for the rest of your life if it requires vitamin supplementation.

Not all of our ancestors lived on very low carb level for their entire life. For example people lived in warmer climates had much higher carb intake. Yes the inuits did live at very low carb level in their entire life. However they ate every part of their preys like liver, brain, whale skin and whatnot and they often eat those things RAW right after they caught the animal. This is important because some micronutrients for example vitamin C is very sensitive to heat and oxidize with time. Many animal organs like liver has good level of vitamin C , but if you cook it or store it for long, you lose most of it. This is why lots of early sailors developed scurvy , while the inuits did not on a similar low carb level.
So yes it is possible to live and be healthy on extreme low level carb during your entire life , but then you need to eat things that gross out most people like fresh RAW liver, brain and whatnot. I personally like to eat liver, but would never ever swallow it raw.

I really like paleomom view on what is the ideal carb level. She wrote a 3 parts blog post series on how to optimize the carbohydrate level to YOUR body. It is a great read, I highly recomend it.
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/07/optimizing-carbohydrate-intake-for-your.html
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/07/optimizing-carbohydrate-intake-for-your_19.html
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/07/optimizing-carbohydrate-intake-for-your_21.html

I'm aware of what the Inuit ate. My point was that they ate almost zero carbs (even our berries have no sugar!) all of their lives and yet were healthy and survived in a harsh environment. That's also why I agree that we must eat vegetables, bone broth and organs etc, because we are not eating everything that the Inuit, and other hunter/gatherers would have eaten. However, in my community I have to question whether eating huge salads and multiple servings of fruit full of contaminated, low nutrient conventionally grown produce is doing more harm than good, especially when those foods are not culturally appropriate. And a diet good for Inuit seems to be pretty darn good for me too. Of course, I can't follow perfectly (I do have some whale meat being sent to me!) so I need to do things a little differently; ie more veggies.

No one who doesn't want to has to consume 15% carbs. My point was that it is enough for everyone in my opinion. Carbs are the only macro that are not essential to survival. 45 grams of carbs for a 4'9" person would indeed be adequate. I have my settings at 10% and that gives me around 40grams and I usually don't get there. For me it is a maximum.

15% is not too low for one's entire life at all. There are no "dangers" with being ketogenic. At 15% one probably will NOT be ketogenic, but will be in a very healthy zone for optimal health, including weight. I have raised my carbs but am finding that I am once again struggling more with hunger. Personally, I don't enjoy struggling with hunger and constantly needing to analyze whether I am really hungry or just eating due to craving. And it's the carbs that I'm craving, not extra fat and protein. That speaks volumes because when I was bingeing, it was the carbs that were the problem, not because I needed to eat 300-400grams per day to be healthy, but because carbs in high amounts screw up metabolism. So, for me, I'm not even sure that 10% is beneficial and might have to go back down.

15% allows for a HUGE amount of vegetables; in fact, I don't know how anyone would even consume that many veggies in one day. I can eat lots of veggies on 5%. I can eat vegetables and fruit on 10%. Fruits should be limited because they were not something that we were eating year round all the time, and modern cultivated fruit bears little resemblance to wild fruit. It is my opinion that sugar, even from fruit, should be consumed with caution. How much depends on the person. The most important, and most bioavailable, nutrients come from animals. Eating huge servings of veggies and fruit will not replace nutrients from fat/meat. Additionally, vegetables have all the nutrients that fruit contain, with less sugar.

So, I agree that 15% carbs isn't for people who do not want to eat 15% carbs and who have no negative effects from eating higher amount of carbs. But I maintain that 15% is more than enough for anyone to be healthy. (I accept that there are exceptions and different people find different ways.)

TriLifter

I do not think there is a magic number that suit everybody. I would disagree that 15% carb is enough for everybody. It is enough for me, but I am tall , larger person who is slowly losing weight even at 2200 cal daily intake. A 4'9" 100lb female with sedentary lifestyle has only 1200 maintenance calories, which is only 45g! carb at 15%. If the same person is athletic and has active lifestyle maintenance level is still only1600 cal, which still only 60 g carb if the limit is 15%. That is too low for your entire life. ( for short term it is totally fine)
The problem with the very low carb is that you allowed to eat very limited amount of fruits and vegetables, which carry lots of vitamins and minerals. Severely limiting plant food may lead to vitamin deficiencies on the long run. I know you can take multivitamins, but I do not think a diet is sustainable for the rest of your life if it requires vitamin supplementation.

Not all of our ancestors lived on very low carb level for their entire life. For example people lived in warmer climates had much higher carb intake. Yes the inuits did live at very low carb level in their entire life. However they ate every part of their preys like liver, brain, whale skin and whatnot and they often eat those things RAW right after they caught the animal. This is important because some micronutrients for example vitamin C is very sensitive to heat and oxidize with time. Many animal organs like liver has good level of vitamin C , but if you cook it or store it for long, you lose most of it. This is why lots of early sailors developed scurvy , while the inuits did not on a similar low carb level.
So yes it is possible to live and be healthy on extreme low level carb during your entire life , but then you need to eat things that gross out most people like fresh RAW liver, brain and whatnot. I personally like to eat liver, but would never ever swallow it raw.

I really like paleomom view on what is the ideal carb level. She wrote a 3 parts blog post series on how to optimize the carbohydrate level to YOUR body. It is a great read, I highly recomend it.
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/07/optimizing-carbohydrate-intake-for-your.html
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/07/optimizing-carbohydrate-intake-for-your_19.html
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/07/optimizing-carbohydrate-intake-for-your_21.html

I'm aware of what the Inuit ate. My point was that they ate almost zero carbs (even our berries have no sugar!) all of their lives and yet were healthy and survived in a harsh environment. That's also why I agree that we must eat vegetables, bone broth and organs etc, because we are not eating everything that the Inuit, and other hunter/gatherers would have eaten. However, in my community I have to question whether eating huge salads and multiple servings of fruit full of contaminated, low nutrient conventionally grown produce is doing more harm than good, especially when those foods are not culturally appropriate. And a diet good for Inuit seems to be pretty darn good for me too. Of course, I can't follow perfectly (I do have some whale meat being sent to me!) so I need to do things a little differently; ie more veggies.

No one who doesn't want to has to consume 15% carbs. My point was that it is enough for everyone in my opinion. Carbs are the only macro that are not essential to survival. 45 grams of carbs for a 4'9" person would indeed be adequate. I have my settings at 10% and that gives me around 40grams and I usually don't get there. For me it is a maximum.

15% is not too low for one's entire life at all. There are no "dangers" with being ketogenic. At 15% one probably will NOT be ketogenic, but will be in a very healthy zone for optimal health, including weight. I have raised my carbs but am finding that I am once again struggling more with hunger. Personally, I don't enjoy struggling with hunger and constantly needing to analyze whether I am really hungry or just eating due to craving. And it's the carbs that I'm craving, not extra fat and protein. That speaks volumes because when I was bingeing, it was the carbs that were the problem, not because I needed to eat 300-400grams per day to be healthy, but because carbs in high amounts screw up metabolism. So, for me, I'm not even sure that 10% is beneficial and might have to go back down.

15% allows for a HUGE amount of vegetables; in fact, I don't know how anyone would even consume that many veggies in one day. I can eat lots of veggies on 5%. I can eat vegetables and fruit on 10%. Fruits should be limited because they were not something that we were eating year round all the time, and modern cultivated fruit bears little resemblance to wild fruit. It is my opinion that sugar, even from fruit, should be consumed with caution. How much depends on the person. The most important, and most bioavailable, nutrients come from animals. Eating huge servings of veggies and fruit will not replace nutrients from fat/meat. Additionally, vegetables have all the nutrients that fruit contain, with less sugar.

So, I agree that 15% carbs isn't for people who do not want to eat 15% carbs and who have no negative effects from eating higher amount of carbs. But I maintain that 15% is more than enough for anyone to be healthy. (I accept that there are exceptions and different people find different ways.)

QFT.

Rei1988

I eat 5% carbs

QFT?

Dragonwolf

I eat 5% carbs

QFT?

Quoted for truth. In other words, the person quoting agrees with it and equally sees it as a true statement.

Rei1988

I eat 5% carbs

QFT?

Quoted for truth. In other words, the person quoting agrees with it and equally sees it as a true statement.

ah thanks