Cardio & Cutting - Just need answer good for my situation!

sassiebritches

Hey there I was going through the forums (here and EM2WL) and watched video, but really need a concrete answer on something. I have been doing basic strength about 10-15 mins 3 days a week. This includes 10# weights (or 8.25 sloshing milk jugs) during my reset. For 12 weeks. During that time people in my ETF group on FB asked why I was not doing cardio. I explained that I am not trying to lose in the reset, not interested in building any sort of endurance....just trying to build a little muscle. Now that I am at cut, the question as to why I am not doing cardio comes up again....and it got me thinking. And I am sure the answer is SIMPLE and I am not seeing it. I currently do the following programs:

Day 1 - 3 reps and only 10-20 sec breaks between sets
-Parallel Leg lifts with 10# dumbell (hips, outer thighs and but - OUCH) - 10/3
-Crunches with 10# dumbell - 15/3
-Squats with 10# dumbell - 15/3
-Skull Cushers laying down (was doing standing but didn't know what they were called) 15/3

Day 2 - 3 reps and only 10-20 sec breaks between sets
-Push ups - 10/3
-Planks - 20 secs/3
-Bicep Curls (think that is the name) 10# - 10/3
-Bicycle sit ups 10# dumbell - 10/3

Day 3 - 3 reps and only 10-20 sec breaks between sets
-Sumo Squats with 10# dumbell
-Lunges 10# dumbell
-Butterfly lifts (thats what I call them - arms out to side with 10# dumbell and I go down and up like a dern chicken...gets those ribs and top of arms real good :P)
-toe lifts holding 10# dumbell.

And that is it.....I sometimes toss in some squats in the kitchen when I am cooking, and I will sometimes do pushups on the counter when I am waiting for the microwave to turn off.....so there are some times I just do that. I do own horses and do go ride once in a while, not as much as I should, I also am active hiking and doing stuff too, again not enough to call it a workout.

I do feel burn, I do feel sore and I AM SEEING A DIFFERENCE. Especially in my arms. I can only assume my tush, thighs and tummy are changing too. I have not lost any weight, but only cut now 3 days so not expecting any losses for a while. BUT here is the trouble I am having. I am 255 lbs. I am hearing people say that strength is great to transform your body, change the way things look so we are not just a smaller version of our self now, but um, I am a big gal at 5'5". So should I be doing cardio too?????I hate it truth be told......HATE IT. Have always preferred strength anyway. I was a former gymnist and I have been blessed to be pretty muscular under this fat still....this is a plus also. And I had my bone density and so on tested as well as my muscle and was found to be big boned and have ALOT of muscle.....well yeah, I have to carry 255 lbs.....everyday

So there it is. The question of the day. Can I still expect to lose all this weight just by doing my 200cal cut and 3 days of weight training a week........insite please

Open to suggestions and guidance here,'

note - have twisted pelvis injury - causes hip trouble, neck and wrist injury. Can do most anything but some are a no no (Zumba irritates hip, too much leg lifting free lifting with legs causes hip issues, cannot do eliptical, pelvis injury created short hamstring and shorter leg, pushing with wrist (pushups, weights) can cause weakness, working on strengthening now.)

rebasporty

I am interested in the response you get. I too am new to EM2WL.

sassiebritches

I didn't get the kit....been stumblin through for 14 weeks with the help of vets and newbies along the way. I have been doing the neat stuff......rake my huge yard 1 time a week and ride horseback, thinking I need to walk to the mailbox and back everyday too (.25 mile 1 way)..... So the starter kit recommends the HIIT 2 times a week during cut too???

The EM2WL starter kit suggest doing two HIIT training sessions for 20-30 minutes twice per week alternated with strength training sessions. And you may also try to increase your daily everyday movement. Like Parking further away, taking the stairs instead of the elevator. Increasing your NEAT (non exercise activity thermogenesis) will aid in your fat/weight loss. Neat calories just like exercise calories are in your TDEE!

holleysings

I know I just messaged you...but I wanted to add something since I had time to read your post! Adding in cardio won't cause you to lose weight as long as you increase your TDEE to match your increase in activity. Weight loss comes from burning more calories than you take in. So if you burn more by adding in cardio, eat more so you don't gain. Or don't eat all of those calories back to create a deficit. HIIT is not a requirement, it just helps with fat burning and cardiovascular health. I prefer an hour long Spinning class which includes some HIIT and Tabatas instead of two HIIT sessions. You just have to find what works for you and your body!

sassiebritches

Awesome explanation! Thank you!!!!

I know I just messaged you...but I wanted to add something since I had time to read your post! Adding in cardio won't cause you to lose weight as long as you increase your TDEE to match your increase in activity. Weight loss comes from burning more calories than you take in. So if you burn more by adding in cardio, eat more so you don't gain. Or don't eat all of those calories back to create a deficit. HIIT is not a requirement, it just helps with fat burning and cardiovascular health. I prefer an hour long Spinning class which includes some HIIT and Tabatas instead of two HIIT sessions. You just have to find what works for you and your body!

heybales

Example.

TDEE with lifting only workout - 2000
2000 - 15% = 1700
300 cal deficit

TDEE with lifting and cardio workouts - 2200
2200 - 15% = 1870
330 cal deficit

You do increase your TDEE 200 if you add exercise.
Which makes your deficit 30 bigger, and you get to eat 170 more.
Shoot - do more lifting and increase your TDEE too.

That's actually the best bet if you enjoy doing it and don't just feel an overwhelming desire to do cardio.

I agree with many other trainers you'll find out there, if you want to do lifting for all the positive benefits it gives you, make it your focus, and don't do anything that takes away from best possible results.

Some things are obvious, don't get drunk and then try to go and lift. Don't run for 2 hrs and then try to go do squats and deadlifts. Don't swim hard for an hour and then try to do upper body.

And this is nothing new, truth been around for awhile. But a lot of stuff lately has been pushing people to jump on bandwagons based on recent studies, to do all the best fat burning type things together, thinking that is better. These same sources also jumped on the cardio fat-burning HR zone when that was a fad years ago, now the swing is to the other extreme.

You get the best benefit from lifting when you progressively overload the muscles, forcing your body to repair and become stronger, if starting out and extra fat, even growing some muscle. Reasonable deficit enhances that, obviously eating in surplus really does.

But you cannot, and especially not in a deficit, progressively overload tired muscles. If your muscles are tired because of what you did the day before, you cannot lift as strong, and increase weights as fast, ect.
In other words, you are not putting the load on them for max benefit of your lifting.
You are not getting the most from your lifting workout.

You cannot, especially in a deficit eating, fully recover muscles from lifting in less than 24 hrs, such that you can put another heavy load on the same muscles. If you want the best recovery and repair to get the max benefit from your lifting, you need to allow the muscles to rest.
Repair and rebuilding requires rest, nothing happens during the exercise except tear down.

Those 2 facts combined mean that any meaningful lifting program of 3 x weekly has no place to stick a HIIT routine.
Now, you could do 2 x upper and 2 x lower a week, and get one routine in there, if you just loved the cardio and needed to do some and had little time.

But lets be honest why HIIT is recommended. Because compared to straight cardio, it burns more fat during recovery.
Why? Because if done correctly (which frankly it rarely is) it can have a very similar, though not as good, response from the body as lifting does.
It's the cardio-only version of lifting.

But if you don't need it, then do upper 3 x and lower 3 x weekly, and just get full benefit from the lifting, don't screw it up.

The sites that recommend HIIT and lifting together will either give a routine that is correct, or will caveat the fact it will impact your lifting if done wrong.

And don't think of reset as any different than deficit, except in amount to eat.
But since it takes energy to do best repair from exercise, you do take longer to repair in deficit. And it is harder to make progress in deficit.
But the focus is weight loss, not performance improvement.
You can push for improvement obviously, and merely accept it can't be the same as when eating at maintenance or above.

Your increased NEAT is another great fat burner actually. The elevated metabolism from lifting, and slightly less from HIIT, is more than equaled by your list of increased daily activity.

But keep doing the lifting, and when you reach point it's not hard, time to increase the weights.
I'm betting it won't take long at all.

And for your joints sake, don't worry about the cardio, your lifting right now is improving your aerobic condition too. Higher reps than higher weight.

Oh, why only 200 cal deficit? That could accidentally be wiped out with some bad measurements or estimates in food logging.

AnitraSoto

For me, it's all about finding something you enjoy doing and will look forward to doing each day. Like you, I hate cardio. In my past (I was also once 260 pounds...) all of my exercise efforts were cardio-based, therefore I would grit my teeth and push through them, hating every second, and then ultimately quit and give up because I hated it so much!

Once I found EM2WL and saw so many women having the most amazing results from the weight lifting I decided to give it a try. I started out with my first Cathe Friedrich DVD (Muscle Max) and became totally addicted. I slowly added a full set of dumbells, then a barbell and eventually a bench (as well as a lot more of Cathe's DVDs) to my home equipment, and now I have a fully equipped little home gym. I love waking up early every morning and lifting.

As far as the cardio, I still dread it (but I also know that my heart needs some of it...) For me, I have just tried to find a few things that I enjoy and incorporated them. I definitely try to increase my NEAT whenever I can. I also enjoy hiking, and have been doing lots of that through the Fall. Once the weather gets too cold and icy, I will have to move my cardio inside. They are not overly exciting, or overly stressful, but I do enjoy some Leslie Sansone walking DVDs. Some of her newer ones incorporate some low-powered HIIT/Interval type stuff, and you can make the workouts as hard or as easy as you want. It is one way I can get in some daily activity in the cold months that I don't dread. (I have a very sedentary desk job and try to get in some type of walking, hiking or walking DVDs in every day, just so I feel better about myself...)

So for me, it's all about finding something you ENJOY and will look forward to. Personally, since you enjoy the weight training, I would just work on expanding and improving on that aspect. Get yourself some equipment or join a gym and continue to push to expand on those workouts. Do what you enjoy! As far as the cardio, get in as much NEAT as you can and try to find something you don't dread and integrate it where you can - make those hikes a little longer, go ride those horses more often, or come to my house and rake some more leaves! (LOL)

rebasporty

Great informaiton Heybales and Anitra - - so glad you asked the questions Sassie. I really enjoy Cathe DVD's, thanks to Anitra I bought the STS series, love it! I think I need to add in some extra activity and/or bump up my calories on days that I workout with weights, maybe that is why my body just does not want to let go of the extra weight I am carrying around. I am a very active person (except for my sit at my desk all day job). I do have Leslie Sansone's DVD's. I will have to get them back out now as the weather gets colder. Hopefully we can support each other Sassie...here is to getting it right!!

FourIsCompany

Great informaiton Heybales and Anitra - - so glad you asked the questions Sassie.

Times 10! This thread has excellent information that I needed this morning!

heybales

Great informaiton Heybales and Anitra - - so glad you asked the questions Sassie. I really enjoy Cathe DVD's, thanks to Anitra I bought the STS series, love it! I think I need to add in some extra activity and/or bump up my calories on days that I workout with weights, maybe that is why my body just does not want to let go of the extra weight I am carrying around. I am a very active person (except for my sit at my desk all day job). I do have Leslie Sansone's DVD's. I will have to get them back out now as the weather gets colder. Hopefully we can support each other Sassie...here is to getting it right!!

Extra activity would equal eating less. Not bare minimum of course, but less than TDEE, which may have been over-estimated if no loss.

sassiebritches

WOWZERS Thanks Heybales this was awesome!!! Sticking to my 3 x a week and doing upper and lower body those days....I am doing a 200 deficit only for 2 weeks per Lucia. Then I will likely come down more. I was eating above my TDEE remember for 4 weeks by mistake, then back down to my TDEE for 2 weeks making my reset 12 weeks. Now I will eat in deficit 200 cals for 2 weeks. I am actually eating in a 267 cal deficit right now (2467TDEE to 2200 cut). In 2 weeks I will drop down another 103 cals. Doing a 15% cut. If I am to understand when I see losses I should stop the deficit. I have noticed I lost 2 lbs this week, where when I was at TDEE I maintained well. Any suggestions are appreciated. I know I do this for 6 weeks and then re-evaluate TDEE and eat TDEE 2 weeks and then back to cut and on and on.

Example.

TDEE with lifting only workout - 2000
2000 - 15% = 1700
300 cal deficit

TDEE with lifting and cardio workouts - 2200
2200 - 15% = 1870
330 cal deficit

You do increase your TDEE 200 if you add exercise.
Which makes your deficit 30 bigger, and you get to eat 170 more.
Shoot - do more lifting and increase your TDEE too.

That's actually the best bet if you enjoy doing it and don't just feel an overwhelming desire to do cardio.

I agree with many other trainers you'll find out there, if you want to do lifting for all the positive benefits it gives you, make it your focus, and don't do anything that takes away from best possible results.

Some things are obvious, don't get drunk and then try to go and lift. Don't run for 2 hrs and then try to go do squats and deadlifts. Don't swim hard for an hour and then try to do upper body.

And this is nothing new, truth been around for awhile. But a lot of stuff lately has been pushing people to jump on bandwagons based on recent studies, to do all the best fat burning type things together, thinking that is better. These same sources also jumped on the cardio fat-burning HR zone when that was a fad years ago, now the swing is to the other extreme.

You get the best benefit from lifting when you progressively overload the muscles, forcing your body to repair and become stronger, if starting out and extra fat, even growing some muscle. Reasonable deficit enhances that, obviously eating in surplus really does.

But you cannot, and especially not in a deficit, progressively overload tired muscles. If your muscles are tired because of what you did the day before, you cannot lift as strong, and increase weights as fast, ect.
In other words, you are not putting the load on them for max benefit of your lifting.
You are not getting the most from your lifting workout.

You cannot, especially in a deficit eating, fully recover muscles from lifting in less than 24 hrs, such that you can put another heavy load on the same muscles. If you want the best recovery and repair to get the max benefit from your lifting, you need to allow the muscles to rest.
Repair and rebuilding requires rest, nothing happens during the exercise except tear down.

Those 2 facts combined mean that any meaningful lifting program of 3 x weekly has no place to stick a HIIT routine.
Now, you could do 2 x upper and 2 x lower a week, and get one routine in there, if you just loved the cardio and needed to do some and had little time.

But lets be honest why HIIT is recommended. Because compared to straight cardio, it burns more fat during recovery.
Why? Because if done correctly (which frankly it rarely is) it can have a very similar, though not as good, response from the body as lifting does.
It's the cardio-only version of lifting.

But if you don't need it, then do upper 3 x and lower 3 x weekly, and just get full benefit from the lifting, don't screw it up.

The sites that recommend HIIT and lifting together will either give a routine that is correct, or will caveat the fact it will impact your lifting if done wrong.

And don't think of reset as any different than deficit, except in amount to eat.
But since it takes energy to do best repair from exercise, you do take longer to repair in deficit. And it is harder to make progress in deficit.
But the focus is weight loss, not performance improvement.
You can push for improvement obviously, and merely accept it can't be the same as when eating at maintenance or above.

Your increased NEAT is another great fat burner actually. The elevated metabolism from lifting, and slightly less from HIIT, is more than equaled by your list of increased daily activity.

But keep doing the lifting, and when you reach point it's not hard, time to increase the weights.
I'm betting it won't take long at all.

And for your joints sake, don't worry about the cardio, your lifting right now is improving your aerobic condition too. Higher reps than higher weight.

Oh, why only 200 cal deficit? That could accidentally be wiped out with some bad measurements or estimates in food logging.

heybales

WOWZERS Thanks Heybales this was awesome!!! Sticking to my 3 x a week and doing upper and lower body those days....I am doing a 200 deficit only for 2 weeks per Lucia. Then I will likely come down more. I was eating above my TDEE remember for 4 weeks by mistake, then back down to my TDEE for 2 weeks making my reset 12 weeks. Now I will eat in deficit 200 cals for 2 weeks. I am actually eating in a 267 cal deficit right now (2467TDEE to 2200 cut). In 2 weeks I will drop down another 103 cals. Doing a 15% cut. If I am to understand when I see losses I should stop the deficit. I have noticed I lost 2 lbs this week, where when I was at TDEE I maintained well. Any suggestions are appreciated. I know I do this for 6 weeks and then re-evaluate TDEE and eat TDEE 2 weeks and then back to cut and on and on.

When you see a loss you are supposed to stop the deficit?

sassiebritches

No, I am supposed to hold steady at that calorie deficit as long as I lose...

WOWZERS Thanks Heybales this was awesome!!! Sticking to my 3 x a week and doing upper and lower body those days....I am doing a 200 deficit only for 2 weeks per Lucia. Then I will likely come down more. I was eating above my TDEE remember for 4 weeks by mistake, then back down to my TDEE for 2 weeks making my reset 12 weeks. Now I will eat in deficit 200 cals for 2 weeks. I am actually eating in a 267 cal deficit right now (2467TDEE to 2200 cut). In 2 weeks I will drop down another 103 cals. Doing a 15% cut. If I am to understand when I see losses I should stop the deficit. I have noticed I lost 2 lbs this week, where when I was at TDEE I maintained well. Any suggestions are appreciated. I know I do this for 6 weeks and then re-evaluate TDEE and eat TDEE 2 weeks and then back to cut and on and on.

When you see a loss you are supposed to stop the deficit?