Baby's First Bulk--Guidance?
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fivethreeone
Posts: 8,196 Member
Hi Sara and SS,
I'm going to begin my first bulk pretty shortly here and I'd love some guidance on a few areas.
First, what I know: I read through the entirety of Sara's (somewhat confusing) bulking blog, as well as the archives of ETP for the past 87 pages. I read everything related to bulking, including all the Lyle links on philosophies and potential of muscle gain, training frequency, training volume, etc, so I do have a decent baseline/reference point for your answers to my questions and I'm trying not to be redundant here.
My goals:
primarily muscle mass gains, secondarily strength gains. I'd like to add a few pounds of muscle and cut down to about 17% bf.
Current program:
I am in my first year of lifting doing a modified version of 5/3/1. I lift 4 days per week, doing the 5/3/1 program for my compound lifts. I do a staggered periodization of my big lifts such that I am PRing and deloading one lift every week, rather than having all 4 lifts on 5s week or 3s week or 1s week. I believe doing this is the most efficient use of my energy and gives me more power for the PR, but it might not be a good strategy during a bulk (Or at all? I'm open to input here. I know eventually I might need a full deload from CNS strain, but so far I am fine).
My assistance work is paired with my compound lifts in more of a bodybuilder split/rep range. OHP is OHP/shoulders/arms. I do 4-5 assistance exercises performed 3x8-10. Bench is Bench/back/chest, and Deadlift and Squats are both overall leg days with a focus on posterior chain assistance exercises.
My stats:
5'5", 135 lbs, 27 years old, about 19% bodyfat (I think? I was at 20% in April, per hydrostatic weighing, and I've dropped 5 lbs since then, but I also was on bedrest during the summer and surely lost some muscle during that time). I lose about a pound a week at 1450 net calories, but above that calorie level the results are not so consistent. I get at least 125g protein per day.
I currently plan to add 100 calories per week as I reverse to find maintenance and sit there for 2 weeks before adding 100 cals per week until I am gaining slowly. I'd like to gain 3-4 lbs of muscle, so assuming equal fat gain and a projected rate of 0.5 lbs gain per week, 16 weeks of bulking.
My questions are:
1) Should I continue with my current lifting program or change my training frequency or volume? Based on my reading, my current volume is fine but my frequency might be off because I do not hit each body part thoroughly twice per week, given my assistance splits. Should I mix-and-match my assistance work so that my upper body days are less body-part specific overall?
2.) once I reach my goal of 8 lbs gained, is there any merit in getting another hydrostatic test and re-evaluating my LBM before determining whether to continue to bulk or to cut?
3) Sara said that she did not gain much actual muscle on her bulk. Is there any way that I can minimize that possibility, perhaps by changing anything in my training?
4) Should I expect to spend an equal amount of time cutting after my bulk? How can I maxmize muscle retention when I return to cutting?
Thanks so much for your input!
I'm going to begin my first bulk pretty shortly here and I'd love some guidance on a few areas.
First, what I know: I read through the entirety of Sara's (somewhat confusing) bulking blog, as well as the archives of ETP for the past 87 pages. I read everything related to bulking, including all the Lyle links on philosophies and potential of muscle gain, training frequency, training volume, etc, so I do have a decent baseline/reference point for your answers to my questions and I'm trying not to be redundant here.
My goals:
primarily muscle mass gains, secondarily strength gains. I'd like to add a few pounds of muscle and cut down to about 17% bf.
Current program:
I am in my first year of lifting doing a modified version of 5/3/1. I lift 4 days per week, doing the 5/3/1 program for my compound lifts. I do a staggered periodization of my big lifts such that I am PRing and deloading one lift every week, rather than having all 4 lifts on 5s week or 3s week or 1s week. I believe doing this is the most efficient use of my energy and gives me more power for the PR, but it might not be a good strategy during a bulk (Or at all? I'm open to input here. I know eventually I might need a full deload from CNS strain, but so far I am fine).
My assistance work is paired with my compound lifts in more of a bodybuilder split/rep range. OHP is OHP/shoulders/arms. I do 4-5 assistance exercises performed 3x8-10. Bench is Bench/back/chest, and Deadlift and Squats are both overall leg days with a focus on posterior chain assistance exercises.
My stats:
5'5", 135 lbs, 27 years old, about 19% bodyfat (I think? I was at 20% in April, per hydrostatic weighing, and I've dropped 5 lbs since then, but I also was on bedrest during the summer and surely lost some muscle during that time). I lose about a pound a week at 1450 net calories, but above that calorie level the results are not so consistent. I get at least 125g protein per day.
I currently plan to add 100 calories per week as I reverse to find maintenance and sit there for 2 weeks before adding 100 cals per week until I am gaining slowly. I'd like to gain 3-4 lbs of muscle, so assuming equal fat gain and a projected rate of 0.5 lbs gain per week, 16 weeks of bulking.
My questions are:
1) Should I continue with my current lifting program or change my training frequency or volume? Based on my reading, my current volume is fine but my frequency might be off because I do not hit each body part thoroughly twice per week, given my assistance splits. Should I mix-and-match my assistance work so that my upper body days are less body-part specific overall?
2.) once I reach my goal of 8 lbs gained, is there any merit in getting another hydrostatic test and re-evaluating my LBM before determining whether to continue to bulk or to cut?
3) Sara said that she did not gain much actual muscle on her bulk. Is there any way that I can minimize that possibility, perhaps by changing anything in my training?
4) Should I expect to spend an equal amount of time cutting after my bulk? How can I maxmize muscle retention when I return to cutting?
Thanks so much for your input!
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Replies
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Rule # 1: When at the gym, don't let them put you in the corner...Unless thats where the power/squat racks are.0
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Naomi, since you're a lovable nerd who likes data as much as a shot of whiskey, you can read this insightful research review on frequency, intensity and volume on whole muscle cross-sectional area.
http://www.carblesspostworkout.com/uploads/4/8/2/9/4829089/hypertrofie_training_review.pdf
This second link is from ACSM position of progression training:
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/11828249
I'll add more later after I pick up my car and run a few errands.0 -
from seeing the title, i was thinking someone wanted advice on how to get their infant to bulk
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Naomi, since you're a lovable nerd who likes data as much as a shot of whiskey, you can read this insightful research review on frequency, intensity and volume on whole muscle cross-sectional area.
http://www.carblesspostworkout.com/uploads/4/8/2/9/4829089/hypertrofie_training_review.pdf
This second link is from ACSM position of progression training:
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/11828249
I'll add more later after I pick up my car and run a few errands.
I looked at the ACSM position summary first; I'll check out the other when I have more time. Based on this information, for greater hypertrophy and strength progression, should I add sets of my big lift at, say, 50% of my 1RM as assistance work, a la Wendler's 5/3/1 "Big But Boring" method?0 -
Rule # 1: When at the gym, don't let them put you in the corner...Unless thats where the power/squat racks are.
Frances?!?! Is that you?
Johnny wants his cage back.0 -
from seeing the title, i was thinking someone wanted advice on how to get their infant to bulk
I thought it was Taso!0 -
Naomi, since you're a lovable nerd who likes data as much as a shot of whiskey, you can read this insightful research review on frequency, intensity and volume on whole muscle cross-sectional area.
http://www.carblesspostworkout.com/uploads/4/8/2/9/4829089/hypertrofie_training_review.pdf
This second link is from ACSM position of progression training:
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/11828249
I'll add more later after I pick up my car and run a few errands.
I looked at the ACSM position summary first; I'll check out the other when I have more time. Based on this information, for greater hypertrophy and strength progression, should I add sets of my big lift at, say, 50% of my 1RM as assistance work, a la Wendler's 5/3/1 "Big But Boring" method?
Just a thought - in 5/3/1 2nd edition (don't know which book you have), Wendler outlines the Simplest Strength Template in which you do the main lift first followed by a version of the opposite lift. i.e. Press / Close grip bench / assistance, Deadlift / Front Squat / assistance. Following that format might give you the frequency you are looking for. You can adjust the assistance work sets and percentages to fall into whatever hypertrophic range works for you. (8's, 10's, or 12's)0 -
from seeing the title, i was thinking someone wanted advice on how to get their infant to bulk
I thought it was Taso!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
Naomi, since you're a lovable nerd who likes data as much as a shot of whiskey, you can read this insightful research review on frequency, intensity and volume on whole muscle cross-sectional area.
http://www.carblesspostworkout.com/uploads/4/8/2/9/4829089/hypertrofie_training_review.pdf
This second link is from ACSM position of progression training:
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/11828249
I'll add more later after I pick up my car and run a few errands.
I looked at the ACSM position summary first; I'll check out the other when I have more time. Based on this information, for greater hypertrophy and strength progression, should I add sets of my big lift at, say, 50% of my 1RM as assistance work, a la Wendler's 5/3/1 "Big But Boring" method?
Just a thought - in 5/3/1 2nd edition (don't know which book you have), Wendler outlines the Simplest Strength Template in which you do the main lift first followed by a version of the opposite lift. i.e. Press / Close grip bench / assistance, Deadlift / Front Squat / assistance. Following that format might give you the frequency you are looking for. You can adjust the assistance work sets and percentages to fall into whatever hypertrophic range works for you. (8's, 10's, or 12's)
Interesting. I didn't know that, but I've recently started doing something similar with my assistance work. 5/3/1 Deadlift then front squat in assistance ranges as part of my assistance. So instead I would deadlift AND front squat using 5/3/1?0 -
Naomi, since you're a lovable nerd who likes data as much as a shot of whiskey, you can read this insightful research review on frequency, intensity and volume on whole muscle cross-sectional area.
http://www.carblesspostworkout.com/uploads/4/8/2/9/4829089/hypertrofie_training_review.pdf
This second link is from ACSM position of progression training:
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/11828249
I'll add more later after I pick up my car and run a few errands.
I looked at the ACSM position summary first; I'll check out the other when I have more time. Based on this information, for greater hypertrophy and strength progression, should I add sets of my big lift at, say, 50% of my 1RM as assistance work, a la Wendler's 5/3/1 "Big But Boring" method?
Just a thought - in 5/3/1 2nd edition (don't know which book you have), Wendler outlines the Simplest Strength Template in which you do the main lift first followed by a version of the opposite lift. i.e. Press / Close grip bench / assistance, Deadlift / Front Squat / assistance. Following that format might give you the frequency you are looking for. You can adjust the assistance work sets and percentages to fall into whatever hypertrophic range works for you. (8's, 10's, or 12's)
Interesting. I didn't know that, but I've recently started doing something similar with my assistance work. 5/3/1 Deadlift then front squat in assistance ranges as part of my assistance. So instead I would deadlift AND front squat using 5/3/1?
no, its more like your example. Say Deadlift 5/3/1, then Front Squat (based on a 90% training max) 50% x 10, 60% x 10, 70% x 10, then assistance work for lats, upper back, triceps, biceps (one exercise - using lightish weight to get a pump - for each body part, doing 3 sets of 10-20.
The Main lift is always 5/3/1, the reps and percentages for the corresponding 2nd big lift of the day changes eache week from 10's to 8-8-6, to 5's and then 5's again at deload weight.
I've been using this template for a while now and have been making good progress. I love that I can do a version of each lift twice a week at different weights. I feel like I get a version of max effort / dynamic effort. it's not exactly the same thing, but I like it and it works well for me.0 -
Naomi, since you're a lovable nerd who likes data as much as a shot of whiskey, you can read this insightful research review on frequency, intensity and volume on whole muscle cross-sectional area.
http://www.carblesspostworkout.com/uploads/4/8/2/9/4829089/hypertrofie_training_review.pdf
This second link is from ACSM position of progression training:
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/11828249
I'll add more later after I pick up my car and run a few errands.
I looked at the ACSM position summary first; I'll check out the other when I have more time. Based on this information, for greater hypertrophy and strength progression, should I add sets of my big lift at, say, 50% of my 1RM as assistance work, a la Wendler's 5/3/1 "Big But Boring" method?
Just a thought - in 5/3/1 2nd edition (don't know which book you have), Wendler outlines the Simplest Strength Template in which you do the main lift first followed by a version of the opposite lift. i.e. Press / Close grip bench / assistance, Deadlift / Front Squat / assistance. Following that format might give you the frequency you are looking for. You can adjust the assistance work sets and percentages to fall into whatever hypertrophic range works for you. (8's, 10's, or 12's)
Interesting. I didn't know that, but I've recently started doing something similar with my assistance work. 5/3/1 Deadlift then front squat in assistance ranges as part of my assistance. So instead I would deadlift AND front squat using 5/3/1?
no, its more like your example. Say Deadlift 5/3/1, then Front Squat (based on a 90% training max) 50% x 10, 60% x 10, 70% x 10, then assistance work for lats, upper back, triceps, biceps (one exercise - using lightish weight to get a pump - for each body part, doing 3 sets of 10-20.
The Main lift is always 5/3/1, the reps and percentages for the corresponding 2nd big lift of the day changes eache week from 10's to 8-8-6, to 5's and then 5's again at deload weight.
I've been using this template for a while now and have been making good progress. I love that I can do a version of each lift twice a week at different weights. I feel like I get a version of max effort / dynamic effort. it's not exactly the same thing, but I like it and it works well for me.
Ahhh. Okay, thanks for that clarification. It backs up what I'm doing right now. I'm not much of an expert, so I'm glad to hear that's something someone with, y'know, actual brainz came up with, too.
So far I'm hearing I'm on the right track overall. Any criticisms?0 -
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So far I'm hearing I'm on the right track overall. Any criticisms?
Your elbows are pointy.
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So far I'm hearing I'm on the right track overall. Any criticisms?
Your elbows are pointy.
Wait till I start my bulk. 0 -
According to findings in the first link, 60% of 1RM is noted as being where the significant % daily increases in CSA are initially observed - with most in the 75 to 80% range. Thus, I would keep 60% of 1RM as an absolute minimum for all sets if your primary goal is maximizing muscle hypertrophy and limit sets to 5-6 max.I looked at the ACSM position summary first; I'll check out the other when I have more time. Based on this information, for greater hypertrophy and strength progression, should I add sets of my big lift at, say, 50% of my 1RM as assistance work, a la Wendler's 5/3/1 "Big But Boring" method?
Having said that: I know you are trying to balance lean mass gains with PRs, but I would focus more on lean gains in this limited phase since: 1) related research shows you'll likely experience significant strength gains by default during this first bulk and 2) you can increase strength as a focus during maintenance and even in a deficit (to some degree).
EDIT:
Regarding your other questions:
2) I don't think it's absolutely necessary unless you're like me and want to have baseline and post-intervention data to make some reasonable comparisons. Four months is long enough to ensure, despite range of error, that a second test will imply a noticeable increase in lean mass compared to baseline.
3) Sara can correct me, but I believe she has done several bulks. At least I remember her doing so. If my memory is correct, her % increase per bulk will decrease with each attempt - unless she starts eating gummy worm roids. With this being your first bulk, I don't think you should compare her latest results to your freshman journey
4) Assuming you'll preserve almost all of those 3-4 lbs of lean mass, you'll only need to assume a deficit long enough to lose the 3-4 lbs of fat mass. Thus it should hypothetically take about 6-8 weeks if that's all the fat you'll gain. You'd have to know your actual P-ratio if you want a more exact answer. If you are blessed with a very favorable P-ratio, which I would not be surprised, that will reduce your deficit time since you'd have added more calories to muscle than fat.0 -
from seeing the title, i was thinking someone wanted advice on how to get their infant to bulk
breastfeed on demand and eat lots of meat and fresh fruit and drink lots of water, for maximum milk production. Baby will get plenty of exercise from kicking and screaming. Babies double their bodyweight in the first few months of life, so they are really the world experts in bulking.0 -
Tagging0
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In to learn :-) Great questions OP0
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from seeing the title, i was thinking someone wanted advice on how to get their infant to bulk
I thought it was Taso!
I also thought this.0 -
My questions are:
1) Should I continue with my current lifting program or change my training frequency or volume? Based on my reading, my current volume is fine but my frequency might be off because I do not hit each body part thoroughly twice per week, given my assistance splits. Should I mix-and-match my assistance work so that my upper body days are less body-part specific overall?
What are your current gym maxes?
2.) once I reach my goal of 8 lbs gained, is there any merit in getting another hydrostatic test and re-evaluating my LBM before determining whether to continue to bulk or to cut?
imo - no.3) Sara said that she did not gain much actual muscle on her bulk. Is there any way that I can minimize that possibility, perhaps by changing anything in my training?
I did not say that I did not gain much muscle per se - I just do not know how much I gained, and what it would have been would be minimal.
Women training for a year + can only put on a max (stars aligning and everything being in sync, plus good genetics) about 6lb a year (there are some outliers obviously). I bulked for 3 months. That equals 2lbs....not much (plus I was injured for some of it and my focus was more on strength then hypertrophy for the most part). You should not expect to put on much either. It's a slow process.
Depending on where you are with your lifts and the ability to provide additional stimulous, Your assumption of 1lb a month is based on someone with less than a years lifting. Now, depending on what your routine is, you probably can eek out these 'newbie gains' for longer than the rule of thumb year, so you may be able to gain 1lb a month - but I would not necessarily expect to do so.
4) Should I expect to spend an equal amount of time cutting after my bulk? How can I maxmize muscle retention when I return to cutting?
Maximizing LBM retention is the same as any 'diet' or cut. Small deficit, lots of protein, reasonably intelligent progressive loading resistance routine. I think expecting an equal amount of time cutting v bulking is a reasonable (albeit conservative) expectation.0 -
According to findings in the first link, 60% of 1RM is noted as being where the significant % daily increases in CSA are initially observed - with most in the 75 to 80% range. Thus, I would keep 60% of 1RM as an absolute minimum for all sets if your primary goal is maximizing muscle hypertrophy and limit sets to 5-6 max.I looked at the ACSM position summary first; I'll check out the other when I have more time. Based on this information, for greater hypertrophy and strength progression, should I add sets of my big lift at, say, 50% of my 1RM as assistance work, a la Wendler's 5/3/1 "Big But Boring" method?
Having said that: I know you are trying to balance lean mass gains with PRs, but I would focus more on lean gains in this limited phase since: 1) related research shows you'll likely experience significant strength gains by default during this first bulk and 2) you can increase strength as a focus during maintenance and even in a deficit (to some degree).
EDIT:
Regarding your other questions:
2) I don't think it's absolutely necessary unless you're like me and want to have baseline and post-intervention data to make some reasonable comparisons. Four months is long enough to ensure, despite range of error, that a second test will imply a noticeable increase in lean mass compared to baseline.
3) Sara can correct me, but I believe she has done several bulks. At least I remember her doing so. If my memory is correct, her % increase per bulk will decrease with each attempt - unless she starts eating gummy worm roids. With this being your first bulk, I don't think you should compare her latest results to your freshman journey
4) Assuming you'll preserve almost all of those 3-4 lbs of lean mass, you'll only need to assume a deficit long enough to lose the 3-4 lbs of fat mass. Thus it should hypothetically take about 6-8 weeks if that's all the fat you'll gain. You'd have to know your actual P-ratio if you want a more exact answer. If you are blessed with a very favorable P-ratio, which I would not be surprised, that will reduce your deficit time since you'd have added more calories to muscle than fat.
Just the one bulk so far. As I noted above, I was injured for some of the time and was training with strength more in mind. IMO, having a more hypertrophy based routine (and not being injured for some of the bulk) will allow more gains to be made. However, we are talking a lb or two.0
