Advice on possible program switch - SL to Wendler?

stumblinthrulife

Hey guys. I've been following StrongLifts for 11 weeks now, and have made some great gains. I've enjoyed the program overall, but the squat volume is getting a bit too much for me. Since I now run close to 20 miles a week, squatting 3 times a week is getting too much. It's starting to play havoc with my hips. And before it's suggested - no, I don't want to cut the running.

I've been looking around and I like the sound of the Wendler 5/3/1 program. Any thoughts?

I'm 165lb, ~13% body fat (by 3 site caliper), and my SL stats are -

Deadlift : 255lb (not yet missed a rep, but I know I'm close)
Squat : 150lb (one 'voluntary' deload, when I realized I was cheating depth)
OHP : 95lb (no deloads, but missed reps)
Pendlay row : 135lb (no deloads, but missed reps)
Bench : 125lb (one programmed deload)

My primary goal is maximal strength. As stated before, I'm more interested in strength:weight ratio than in getting big.

Final thought : I don't want to be a program hopper. I'm looking for something that will work for me long term, and it's becoming apparent that any program that has me squatting three days a week just isn't going to stick.

SideSteel

Have you considered just removing 1 day/week squatting and see what happens to your overall recovery and strength progress?

Additional thought would be to reduce training volume each day, so bring squats to 3x5 to see if the volume reduction helps.

I would consider those before considering a move from SL to 5/3/1. Chances are good that you can continue to make faster strength gains on a linear model, you just need to reduce the squat volume or frequency to assist recovery.

_errata_

I do High Intensity Training (HIT) with an emphasis on strength. I hit the entire body in a 2-day split:

Day 1:
Military Press: 1x6
Squat: 1x6
Light core work

Day 2:
Bench Press: 1x6
Lat Pulldown or Weighted Pull Ups: 1x6
Deadlifts: 1x6

Each set is done to failure. When you hit 7 reps on a weight, increase the weight by 10 lbs. Make sure you get plenty of rest. I have been following this protocol for about 5 months and have gone from a 265 lb squat to a 420 lbs squat on my 1RM. I used to lift in high school, and I think I probably have good genetics, so take what I say with a grain of salt. One thing I am sure of, however, is that unless you have the capability to recover like wolverine and are a genetic freak, squatting 3 times a week really isn't necessary.

If you want more information, this is a great resource: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dorian-yates-blood-guts-6-week-trainer.htm

danimalkeys

With only 11 weeks in, I'd keep going. You could drop down to 3 sets of squats once you start missing. You can also do smaller weight jumps. Or you could drop the 2nd squat day and just squat on day 1 and 3 like SS mentioned.

I'm actually going off of 5/3/1. My weight loss is affecting my lifts enough that each month when I revisit a weight I hit in a prior cycle, I'm getting less reps than before. Overall, all of my lifts (except chin-ups that I do for assistance) have gone down by a couple reps.

I'm going back to a Starr 3x5 type program. It's like 5x5, but the option I'm doing has the 2nd squat workout using only 80% of your work weight from the prior workout. It also alternates deads, cleans, and chin-ups.

stumblinthrulife

Thank you all for the advice.

I think I'll stick with SL, but go with the suggestion of dropping Thursday squats so I'm squatting Tuesday and Saturday with 3-4 days rest between. It makes a lot of sense to focus on fixing the squats, rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water when the rest of the program continues to work very well for me.

And on the subject of fixing the squats, one of these days I'll overcome the self-consciousness and have someone video my form for critique. There's almost certainly something I can fix that would also help this issue.

SideSteel

Thank you all for the advice.

I think I'll stick with SL, but go with the suggestion of dropping Thursday squats so I'm squatting Tuesday and Saturday with 3-4 days rest between. It makes a lot of sense to focus on fixing the squats, rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water when the rest of the program continues to work very well for me.

And on the subject of fixing the squats, one of these days I'll overcome the self-consciousness and have someone video my form for critique. There's almost certainly something I can fix that would also help this issue.

If it makes you feel any more secure you can PM me a squat vid instead of posting it in the group. I'd really suggest getting technical things figured out sooner rather than later for both safety reasons and for progress reasons.

stumblinthrulife

If it makes you feel any more secure you can PM me a squat vid instead of posting it in the group. I'd really suggest getting technical things figured out sooner rather than later for both safety reasons and for progress reasons.

Thanks for the offer. Oddly enough I'm not really self-conscious about posting the video for strangers to critique. It's more about looking like a douche filming himself in the gym :laugh:

SideSteel

If it makes you feel any more secure you can PM me a squat vid instead of posting it in the group. I'd really suggest getting technical things figured out sooner rather than later for both safety reasons and for progress reasons.

Thanks for the offer. Oddly enough I'm not really self-conscious about posting the video for strangers to critique. It's more about looking like a douche filming himself in the gym :laugh:

Ah I see, I misunderstood.

If you can get there during a slow time, it's pretty quick to just set your cell phone up and get a few reps

The_Enginerd

If it makes you feel any more secure you can PM me a squat vid instead of posting it in the group. I'd really suggest getting technical things figured out sooner rather than later for both safety reasons and for progress reasons.

Thanks for the offer. Oddly enough I'm not really self-conscious about posting the video for strangers to critique. It's more about looking like a douche filming himself in the gym :laugh:

I'm there during the slow times, but no one cared when I've done it. I've done it probably a dozen times.

I'm not running as much as you, but I'm only doing squats twice a week as well. It does kick your *kitten*. I had to take a two week break from lifting due to an injury and my running pace got quite a bit better in that time.

Sarauk2sf

If it makes you feel any more secure you can PM me a squat vid instead of posting it in the group. I'd really suggest getting technical things figured out sooner rather than later for both safety reasons and for progress reasons.

Thanks for the offer. Oddly enough I'm not really self-conscious about posting the video for strangers to critique. It's more about looking like a douche filming himself in the gym :laugh:

When I used to go to a gym, I filmed myself all the time...the only time it felt a little odd was when I filmed my doing BB hip thrusts...but that feels odd doing them in the middle of the gym anyway :happy:

Sarauk2sf

Thank you all for the advice.

I think I'll stick with SL, but go with the suggestion of dropping Thursday squats so I'm squatting Tuesday and Saturday with 3-4 days rest between. It makes a lot of sense to focus on fixing the squats, rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water when the rest of the program continues to work very well for me.

And on the subject of fixing the squats, one of these days I'll overcome the self-consciousness and have someone video my form for critique. There's almost certainly something I can fix that would also help this issue.

I think that is a good idea. SL can often be done for a very long time. The 'recommended' progression after SL is Bill Starr's Madcow so that may be something that you could look into down the line. However, for now, I really would stick with SL and adapt as necessary.