When to start a bulk

GuybrushThreepw00d

I think i already know the answer to this question, but am looking for opinions.

I'm 5' 10", currently weighing 166lb's, down from 228lbs.

My goal is basically to be more muscular and have visible abs. Strength goals are in there too (100kg bench, 200kg deadlift etc), but my main goal is aesthetic driven (i mean i had years being a lard *kitten*, so cut me some slack eh?).

I've accepted that i'll use bulk-cut cycles to achieve the recomposition i desire (12% would be nice, current estimate is between 17 and 19). My question is at what point it's best to start a bulk. Should i keep cutting regardless of my weight until i hit 12% bf, or would i be better advised to get my weight down to say 155lb's and then start a bulk before cutting again?

My concern, and reason for asking this question is that i don't want to get super skinny. I want to look fit and healthy, It's obviously a subjective issue. The only bit of significant fat on me is my belly, my waist is 34"... I think about 30/31" would be about right after the fat goes.

Thoughts/Recommendations?

SideSteel

I think very generally speaking, 10% to 15% is a good slot to shoot for, but at the same time I think there are circumstances in which you could go around that.

This is probably the obvious answer, but I'd base it on your tolerance for fat gain and your intolerance for skinny appendages (at some point for example, if you're well under-weight but still not satisfied with your bodyfat%, further cutting is basically going to attempt to give you abs at the expense of making your arms/legs smaller).

I would also look at gym performance.

Let me ask you this: How is your dietary adherence and your gym performance?

Sarauk2sf

Tagging

GuybrushThreepw00d

Let me ask you this: How is your dietary adherence and your gym performance?

Consistent calorie deficit at the moment. Macro's aren't terrible.

Gym performance stalled weeks and weeks ago. Haven't progressed my lifts significantly/consistently after week 12 of SL5x5.
This is another reason why I think starting a bulk @ 155lb is not a bad idea. I really want to raise the weight on my big compound lifts.

GuybrushThreepw00d

if you're well under-weight but still not satisfied with your bodyfat%, further cutting is basically going to attempt to give you abs at the expense of making your arms/legs smaller).

I wouldn't say i was under-weight...
If you go by BMI (lols) then my BMI is 24, on the high end of "Normal".
When i was 18, i was 147lbs (and pretty fit).

tomcornhole

I think SS nailed it when he stated it depends on your tolerance for skinny vs. fat. I cut down to 12% and started a bulk. I wanted to go lower but everyone said I looked like a POW. I started a bulk and now I'm at 17% and I hate it. I am fat. My wife thinks I'm nuts, but it's obvious that my tolerance for skinny is much higher than my tolerance for fat. So I am stopping my bulk and cutting back down to 10% BF and bulking from there. It didn't help that I didn't bulk correctly due to life getting in the way. Not sure I gained any muscle. But it was fun because the lifts are much easier while in a surplus.

So, my recommendation is to get as lean as you can stand and then bulk from there. If that's now, start bulking.

Tom

Sarauk2sf

Regarding your lifts, have you had your form checked?

Have you stalled on all your lifts?

GuybrushThreepw00d

Regarding your lifts, have you had your form checked?

Have you stalled on all your lifts?

Yep, had a good PT for a while. Form is good.
I've basically been working in a near continual stall-deload cycle for a while.

SideSteel

You could consider a diet break to see if that does anything for you performance wise.
You could consider refeeding strictly for performance based purposes. Typically one wouldn't refeed until you're in the low teens or so as far as bodyfat% but for performance reasons you could give it a shot.

You could also just tough it out and keep cutting as long as your gym performance doesn't start to decline.

IMO:

Getting stronger on a cut = awesome
Maintain strength on a cut = acceptable
Losing stength on a cut = oh ****.


I know I'm not giving you any answers here, because ultimately it's really up to you. I tend to try to get quite lean before I bulk because I suck at bulking. I over-eat and get fat too fast.

Sarauk2sf

Regarding your lifts, have you had your form checked?

Have you stalled on all your lifts?

Yep, had a good PT for a while. Form is good.
I've basically been working in a near continual stall-deload cycle for a while.

Have you dropped to 3 x 5 yet?