Over 1 Year...

rhoda003

My frustration level is starting to raise a little

I have been lifting heavy for over a year now. I was low carb/paleo when I first started lifting and then found EM2LW about 6 months in.

Over the year I have gained 25 lbs. Some of it was while I was still paleo, the rest happened when I started "eating the food" again. It stabilized about 4 months ago. I am 5' 5" @ 193 lbs. I've cycled through a full reset, a six week cut, two weeks of full TDEE, an eight week cut, and now I am full TDEE again. I figure my calories through the Haybales spreadsheet and my FitBit. I track my calories by weighing and recording on My FitnessPal.

Nothing. I don't loose more than a pound or two, and then I gain a pound or two.

I've been following Nia Shanks programs. I lift heavy 3-4 days a week depending on the phase of the program. Other days I walk (most days I am averaging 8,000-10,000 steps). I do yoga 1-2 days a week.

I'm wondering if I stay in the higher end of my calories and then start doing 2 days of HIIT (from Turbo Fire or with Kettlebells) will that kick something into gear?

I want to lose at least 30 lbs. I've done my best to ignore the scale up to this point. I've taken measurements. I focus on how my clothes fit...but none of it is changing all that much. I track my lifting progress. It's time to tweak it again...

Thanks in advance

Rhoda

heybales

That would sound like you are not yet eating at TDEE.

How do you know you did a reset eating at TDEE for all those weeks?
Because you didn't gain or lose any weight?

But didn't that happen to you eating at a cut too basically for those weeks?
So does that mean the cut level is really your TDEE?

Obviously not, because you did eat more with no change there too.

But how do you know your estimated TDEE is your potential TDEE?
You've proven to yourself that no gain or loss doesn't prove anything actually, since it happened at lower levels too.

Confirm spreadsheet first, just in case say the bodyfat% is off, therefore BMR and TDEE are off.
Then confirm if it appears you can trust the FitBit estimate of calories for your TDEE, if that is the basis for it. If the spreadsheet Activity Calculator is, confirm your hours of time for work above sedentary, and minutes of exercise.

So if FitBit, it will be worthless for the lifting calorie burn - totally under-estimated as it's not step based exercise. Yoga likely too, though it doesn't burn that much. So if TDEE and TDEG is based on FitBit only TDEE estimates, eating too little easily. If you manually log your strength training and sync it to FitBit, fine.

Before you add more exercise, since TDEE is based on your level of activity, stick with what you will keep doing and nail your TDEE for that routine - don't throw another variable in confusing things.

You need the 2 week confirmation test.
Eat 250 more daily.
For 2 weeks that should result in a slow 1 lb gain only. If it is, you proved the previous level was TDEE. Don't worry, lifting heavy you won't be adding fat.

If you gain fast 1-2 lbs in first week - obviously water weight.
Why would you gain water weight if eating TDEE and now eating more (outside sodium, so only valid weigh-in days are required)?
Because you topped of glucose stores with water. And if you had really been eating at TDEE, there should be nothing to top off already.

Spreadsheet just helps focus in on best TDEE estimate, some it nails, some still have higher NEAT than it is using, or much lower too.

Progress tab, far right, has means of logging a months worth of eating, and calculating what TDEE must have been based on weight loss - but that doesn't work if suppressed already, gotta come in from high side before you start adjusting down.

Too low would also explain why little progress with even fat loss of inches if weight stayed the same - which would happen eating at maintenance.
But below maintenance too much, body isn't going to build something more energy demanding if it thinks it's not getting enough right now.
Some of that could also be related to how you structure your workouts. Sounds realistic or not bad, but it could still be done poorly.

Exercise if done right tears the body down.
Rest for recovery and rebuilding is what builds it up (if diet allows).
You have rest for muscles you lifted with the day after? Recovery, especially in a deficit, can take 24-48 hrs.

Because if you do your workouts not recovered, while it may feel like you are giving it your all, failure because of tired does not lead to improvements like failure because of weight overload. Would see very little improvement on the bar too if doing it for any length of time. Just starting though, you can do all kinds of wrong and see improvements.

Also, the intake side, you weighing everything but liquids which you measure?
Because that month's worth of eating level logging only works if you have all days accounted for with good accuracy.
And it could be accuracy right now effecting you, but that would be a case of usually eating much more than you think.
So for that direction of course, eating at TDEE should cause weight gain if inaccurate - so I don't think that is it, but just confirming.

rhoda003

I follow the spreadsheet more for TDEE than my FitBit because I know it doesn't track everything. I also manually enter my strength workouts onto the FitBit site (just the general calories burned according to MFP).

I've gone back over the spreadsheet a few times to make sure I have everything as close to accurate as I can get.

As for my TDEE, I think I am figuring it correctly. When I went from 1950 calories up to the 2450 I am at now I did gain 2 lbs, and then a few days later it was back to my usual 193.4 And it did the same the time before, but I actually managed to lose a little and was closer to 190.

But, I hit that 190 while I was eating closer to the 2400 mark...and after a week of not really tracking much...just hanging with my sisters and eating and playing.

I am pretty sure I have been resting the right way in between lifting days. I usually only walk or do Yoga...and my strength gains have gone up a little with this last program. If I do full body lifts then I only lift 3 days a week. If I am doing upper/lower split then I work out 4 days with at least two days in between upper and upper.

I do weigh everything on a scale and measure my liquids. I've been doing that since August...and I have been doing my best on the protein intake.

On the "Simple Setup" tab it says my TDEE is 2591 and my TDEG is 1963 which is where I was during cut.

On the "FitBit" tab is says 2366 for non active days and 2536 for active days so I went with an average of 2450 for my TDEE. I'm willing to up it to 2700 to see if it climbs...even though it just seems to be bouncing between 193 and 195 anyway.

200 might be my mental breaking point...

jaeone

I follow the spreadsheet more for TDEE than my FitBit because I know it doesn't track everything. I also manually enter my strength workouts onto the FitBit site (just the general calories burned according to MFP).

I've gone back over the spreadsheet a few times to make sure I have everything as close to accurate as I can get.

As for my TDEE, I think I am figuring it correctly. When I went from 1950 calories up to the 2450 I am at now I did gain 2 lbs, and then a few days later it was back to my usual 193.4 And it did the same the time before, but I actually managed to lose a little and was closer to 190.

But, I hit that 190 while I was eating closer to the 2400 mark...and after a week of not really tracking much...just hanging with my sisters and eating and playing.

I am pretty sure I have been resting the right way in between lifting days. I usually only walk or do Yoga...and my strength gains have gone up a little with this last program. If I do full body lifts then I only lift 3 days a week. If I am doing upper/lower split then I work out 4 days with at least two days in between upper and upper.

I do weigh everything on a scale and measure my liquids. I've been doing that since August...and I have been doing my best on the protein intake.

On the "Simple Setup" tab it says my TDEE is 2591 and my TDEG is 1963 which is where I was during cut.

On the "FitBit" tab is says 2366 for non active days and 2536 for active days so I went with an average of 2450 for my TDEE. I'm willing to up it to 2700 to see if it climbs...even though it just seems to be bouncing between 193 and 195 anyway.

200 might be my mental breaking point...

I'd like to suggest that you stop calorie counting for now and focus on just being mindful with your eating to alleviate some of the stress. That is getting more of your nutrition from whole foods and eating a balanced plate of lean protein, veggies, fruits and whole grains. Don't eat more don't eat less just don't log. Stop trying to hit a calorie number. Just take about a month or two months off. You have been logging for a year, you know what to eat, You sound like you're getting stressed and You're also frustrated with the weight gain as well as calorie counting and about reaching 200lbs. Continue your workouts, focus on getting stronger and lifting heavier!

rhoda003

I'd like to suggest that you stop calorie counting for now and focus on just being mindful with your eating to alleviate some of the stress. That is getting more of your nutrition from whole foods and eating a balanced plate of lean protein, veggies, fruits and whole grains. Don't eat more don't eat less just don't log. Stop trying to hit a calorie number. Just take about a month or two months off. You have been logging for a year, you know what to eat, You sound like you're getting stressed and You're also frustrated with the weight gain as well as calorie counting and about reaching 200lbs. Continue your workouts, focus on getting stronger and lifting heavier!

I've eaten up to 2700 the past 3 days. There was a jump on the scale, so I'm assuming that means I am still in search of an elusive number. I'm willing to keep it bumped up for a week or so...and then I think I will go on a "calorie counting hiatus".

Jaeone...I think you are right and I just need to go with my instincts and give the whole thing a break. If number chasing isn't working and tweaking isn't working then it's time to try something new. And hopefully less stressful. At some point, something has to give.

AnitraSoto

I'd like to suggest that you stop calorie counting for now and focus on just being mindful with your eating to alleviate some of the stress. That is getting more of your nutrition from whole foods and eating a balanced plate of lean protein, veggies, fruits and whole grains. Don't eat more don't eat less just don't log. Stop trying to hit a calorie number. Just take about a month or two months off. You have been logging for a year, you know what to eat, You sound like you're getting stressed and You're also frustrated with the weight gain as well as calorie counting and about reaching 200lbs. Continue your workouts, focus on getting stronger and lifting heavier!

I've eaten up to 2700 the past 3 days. There was a jump on the scale, so I'm assuming that means I am still in search of an elusive number. I'm willing to keep it bumped up for a week or so...and then I think I will go on a "calorie counting hiatus".

Jaeone...I think you are right and I just need to go with my instincts and give the whole thing a break. If number chasing isn't working and tweaking isn't working then it's time to try something new. And hopefully less stressful. At some point, something has to give.

I also think Jaeone has given you some great advice. Yes, we need to know what "our numbers" are and pay attention to exercise and the quality and quantity of the food we eat. But, there is also a point when we get so wrapped up in those numbers that the resulting stress seems to "un-do" all of that hard work. Stress is very powerful.

You have been doing this long enough that I am sure you have a great idea of what your numbers are and how to eat healthfully (and enough) and how to exercise effectively. It sounds like the stress is taking over and sabotaging all of your efforts.

Personally, I found the most success when I stopped logging and stopped stressing over every calorie consumed and burned. Like you, I had been doing this long enough that I knew how much I needed to eat. I still add things up in my head so I have a rough idea of my intake. I plan each meal around a protein so I know I will get enough. I continue to strength train and stay as active as I can. I don't keep food in my house that I am likely to binge on - only what I consider to be healthy options. I eat no fast food and eat as clean as possible. If I am hungry after a big workout, I will allow myself to eat more. If I am not particularly hungry one day (doesn't happen often!), I will eat less. I do not weigh myself any more and use my clothes as a gauge. As long as my clothes continue to fit well (or better), I know I am on track.

I feel so much less stress now that I am not obsessed over the numbers. When we start out, yes we need to run our numbers and track our intake and calories burned, but after doing it for a long time, I think most of us have a pretty good idea of what we should be doing. Obviously, with the EM2WL philosophy, it is important to make sure we continue to eat *enough* to keep our metabolism up and running where they should be.

I think it is a great idea to "back away from the numbers" for a while. Relax and just do what you know is right. I think so many people look at those numbers and say "I am doing all the right things and the chart says this should be the result - why is it not happening??" That resulting stress is a powerful thing (in a negative way...) Try stepping away from the numbers for a while and see what happens. :-)

rhoda003

I made it a week eating at 2700. Then a stomach bug struck. I'm back to square one on that experiment
Right before I went down for a whole day and a half of sleeping I weighed myself and I had gained two lbs the first few days and lost one by the end of the week.

My plan is to rework myself up into the 2300-2400 range and hold there for a bit. See what that does for the scale and the inches. And then maybe a break from counting in general (about the time I finish up the last week or so of this lifting program).

The good news is that in previous years I would have given up on my workout program and "diet" because I had fallen off schedule and off the plan for a week. This time, I am just picking back up where I left off...and I am 100% okay with that