Post workout - simple vs complex carbs

jordymils

This is where I really get confused. I've read arguments for both sides but surely they can't both be equally correct.
Post workout, is it better to have simple or complex carbs?
FYI - I do crossfit 8-10 times per week.

I know the basics that during training, particularly an intense session like crossfit, our bodies deplete their glycogen stores and these need to be replenished for better recovery, energy, etc. But I'm struggling to figure out which is the best route.

Currently, I focus on complex carbs pre-workout, and simple carbs immediately post-workout.
What that usually looks like is this:
I train at 9am 5-6 days per week, so I will usually have a banana and some greek yoghurt around 8am and then a protein shake and 250ml fruit juice (no added sugar, etc) immediately after.
I also train in the late afternoon/evening 3-4 days per week, so if it's been less than 1.5 hours since lunch and my lunch included starchy carbs I won't eat anything extra before training (this doesn't happen often) but if it's been more than a couple hours then I'll have a banana, sometimes with some peanut butter or something, 45-60 mins before and then the same protein and fruit juice straight after.
When I train in the morning, I will have some complex carbs (sweet potato, oats, etc) an hour or two after training when I get hungry, but when I train later in the day I usually just load up on veggies (with normal protein and fat) for dinner, which is 1-2 hours after training.

Have I got it all wrong??
Should I cut out the simple carbs (fruit/fruit juice) and just focus on complex/starchy carbs before and after training? The only reason I started having the fruit juice after training is because I was told that the body needs simple carbs to be able to quickly replenish glycogen stores, in the same way that it needs a quick and digestible source of protein for muscle repair...

I'm starting to second guess my methods, so any help would be greatly appreciated!!

PS - before anyone jumps on the fact that banana is a fruit and is more simple carbs than complex, I've done some research and found that the more ripe a banana is, the more 'simple' it is. I don't like ripe bananas and only really eat them when the tips are still a little green, so at that stage I believe they are more complex...

heybales

Pre-event meal studies.

http://www.sportsci.org/news/compeat/glycemic.html

In table is comment about best amount post workout, simple would be better than complex since idea is to get it used with 30 min.

http://www.sportsci.org/news/compeat/grams.html

Add to this the more recent studies that show carb to protein ratios of 4:1 in post-workout snack causes best glucose update, when you plan on having another long or intense effort the next day. That's within the 30 min also.

That applies to you I'd suggest, because those studies looking at endurance improvements, can mostly be replaced by idea of intense exercise too, which causes the same glucose depletion in the muscles.

And a quick snippet of reference to that study with protein, and type of carbs post workout.

http://www.sportsci.org/2006/wghACSM.doc

So basically the simple is only going to be of better benefit 30 min to 2 hrs out, then back to normally scheduled food.

jordymils

Interesting reads... I guess the biggest difference between my type of training and the training of the study participants is that I would put a lot more emphasis on protein for muscle recovery as well as carbs for glycogen recovery, whereas endurance athletes such as cyclists would focus more on energy depletion, rather than muscle repair.

Good to read though that pre-training meals don't make a huge difference - a banana with some protein keeps me full and gives me enough energy to get through training, so I'll continue doing that.

My post-training intake is within 20-30 mins of finishing the session (usually stretch for 10-15 mins immediately after, have a drink, etc and then have my protein/juice in the car) and is 24g protein and around 30g simple carbs, which I understand is probably too low on the carbs side of things but I follow that up with more complex carbs in my first meal/snack post training, which is usually 1-2 hours after training. I'm not sure if that works to balance itself out, but if I focused on getting more simple carbs alongside my protein immediately post training, then it would put my daily carb intake well above 40% of my calories. Which is where I get confused because I don't know if it's more important to have the correct ratio of protein to carbs post training, or to have the right percentage of carbs throughout the day...

I might try having my protein, juice and then a muesli bar (taking carb intake to around 50g with a mixture of simple and complex) straight after training, which would also carry me over for a bit longer before getting hungry again... And still focus on getting some complex carbs in my first proper post-training meal...

heybales

Last idea probably a good one.

Because studies on post-workout protein windows have shown no improvements except in specific cases that an experienced lifter might see, possibly, but probably not.

But the glucose window has been shown in several studies to exist. So if anything, have your simple carbs mainly within 30 min, eat the other balanced meal later.

Now, one study involving protein was again for cycling endurance day after day - those that took a protein shake 30 min prior to bed had better recovery for next day going longer than those that didn't. All other meals being the same, with more protein earlier for the group that didn't do it before bed. So same amount, just different timing.
Not surprising though, body repairs while you sleep, and there's extra protein to help with it.

So if the choice was between almost matched carbs:protein snack and a better ratio 1-2 hrs later, or just downing a carb only drink with 30 min - do the carb only drink, get the protein later.