Cadence - must be 180.00? (or you're not really running!)
blackcloud13
Posts: 654 Member
I just ran into this cadence topic (was reading some stuff on the internet ...) . I read that 180 is the "correct" rate. So I tried this today (for about 30 seconds!) - but quickly reverted to "normal" as it felt very uncomfortable.
Seems I currently run at about 120 (which is apparently a good way to get injured).however, for me to run at 180, I's have to reduce my stride length considerably - and when I see myself run my strides already look way too short.
I've also read this this --> http://www.myfitnesspal.com/post/new/946454-cadence which has useful info on the topic
My question - does anyone else here pay attention to their cadence? Any views/tips? Should I be looking to gradually push my cadence up?
Seems I currently run at about 120 (which is apparently a good way to get injured).however, for me to run at 180, I's have to reduce my stride length considerably - and when I see myself run my strides already look way too short.
I've also read this this --> http://www.myfitnesspal.com/post/new/946454-cadence which has useful info on the topic
My question - does anyone else here pay attention to their cadence? Any views/tips? Should I be looking to gradually push my cadence up?
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I do pay some attention to cadence. Not that this is the be all end all but to your point to watch my stride. Running is opposite race walking. In running you increase stride length while maintaining cadence. IN race walking you maintain stride length while increasing cadence.
The rational behind the cadence is to get a long stride *behind you* not in front. When you stride is long in front a few "bad things" happen:
* It is HARDER (you have to lift your weight over yourself)
* More likely to heel strike
* You are on the ground longer, which is also part of harder.
Try this little experiment. Go up to a set of stairs and put your toes right up against the bottom step. Now step back a foot or so. Step and up and down the step a few times to feel the effort. Should feel pretty easy. Now back up some more and step and up and down again. It's harder isn't it? A long stride takes more work
To a large extent though I say run how you run.0 -
I used to not pay much attention to it but after getting an IT Band injury my Dr. suggested watching my cadence and keeping it in the 180 range. It has helped tremendously, it changes my stride and makes me land mid foot instead of heel strike and utilizes my muscles differently and more efficiently. And as a big bonus it makes me faster without trying harder.
It does feel a little odd when I start a run, like I'm taking micro-steps but I get into a rhythm and then it's second nature. 0 -
Ooh! I noticed yesterday while running that when I increased my cadence, I was able to move up to 9.5mph with little effort, but I also fell more economic and no pain. My question is: how do I know what cadence I am running?0
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A simple way to to count "one" every time your right (or left) foot lands for one minute and then multiply by 2. You can also get numerous cadence apps or devices (essentially metronomes)Ooh! I noticed yesterday while running that when I increased my cadence, I was able to move up to 9.5mph with little effort, but I also fell more economic and no pain. My question is: how do I know what cadence I am running?0
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A simple way to to count "one" every time your right (or left) foot lands for one minute and then multiply by 2. You can also get numerous cadence apps or devices (essentially metronomes)Ooh! I noticed yesterday while running that when I increased my cadence, I was able to move up to 9.5mph with little effort, but I also fell more economic and no pain. My question is: how do I know what cadence I am running?
Get a garmin footpod, it does all the work for you. :laugh:0 -
I track my cadence regularly. My cadence slowing down late during a long run is a sign that I may be tired and/or my form is deteriorating. I don't worry much about it otherwise.
Leg length and foot strike patterns have a large impact on cadence.
Based on your cadence I am guessing you are a heel striker. Am I correct? If so, comparing your cadence to a forefoot/midfoot striker means little.
If you are a heel striker and fairly tall I would not worry much unless you have reason to believe you are overstriding
Aside from counting your strides, using a foot pod (or certain GPS watches) to measure cadence you can also record a video of yourself on a treadmill and use that.
Here is an interesting article on the topic:
http://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/improve-running-speed-step-frequency-and-step-length/
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I started to watch my cadence only because a higher cadence is suppose result in less impact on your ankles and knees. Since you aren't striding out so much the impact is distributed better. I already have arthritis in my left knee so just increasing my cadence from the low 150s up to the high 160s has helped a lot. If I really focus I can get up to 170. Never seen 180.0
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Increasing my cadence to 170 has helped me a lot. At first, it was very awkward, especially at slower speeds. It's helped me land more under or behind my center of gravity and to run faster without a serious increase in effort. In fact, while keeping cadence steady, I can speed up just by relaxing, leaning forward slightly (at the ankles) and allowing my legs to trail out behind me. Until it felt natural, I used a playlist of songs that were all the same tempo to keep me on track (a lot of old-school rock and punk are this fast).
My cadence used to be very slow (I'm not sure exactly what). Part of the problem was that I was wasting energy pushing my weight up (to stay in the air longer). Also, I was heel-striking out in front of my center of gravity, which is like putting on the brakes with every step, and has been shown to increase the impact on the joints. If you're very tall, you may get away with a slower cadence, but by speeding it up and then increasing your stride length back to where it is now, you should get very fast!0 -
I (6'2") run with my wife (5'3"). My cadence is 170ish, hers is 120 - apparently it looks hilarious...
but I enjoy not getting injured so much, and find it easy to do now I've been practicing for a year or so. Its also quicker for me (so i can keep up with my wife now!)0 -
Thanks everyone! Based on this, I will actually work on upping my cadence gradually (over a few short runs at first)
Hopefully, it will lead to fewer injuries (well - I only need one fewer injury!) and more economical/faster running.
For completeness - I'm quite tall (6'1") - and I do feel most comfortable when I lengthen my stride and cut cadence - but looks like this may not be the best approach. (I pretty sure I'm a heel striker too)0 -
What you might want to try to do is to pay attention to having your feet land more or less underneath your hips. Doing this will naturally increase your turnover, which is without a doubt better for your running. My last race had a cadence of 182 and even on long runs, it's up near 180. Today's 10 miles was an average of 178. Ultimately though, the number isn't overly important, it's just a means to developing a good stride.
Imho, of course..
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This focus has been the best improvement in my running. I have also recently read the book Chi Running which talks a lot about the form and the pace. Foot landing underneath you but also as it is landing underneath you, the leg/foot should also be pulling back already so that when it strikes the ground it is moving with the ground and not against it. This causes no jarring compared to heel striking in front of you where you are slowing yourself down slightly on impact.
For me now, when I want to run faster, I lean forward and the cadence stays the same. My stride gets longer but the landing and cadence stay the same. I started learning the cadence on the treadmill where I could focus on it. Really comes down to 3 steps per second which is easy to see on the treadmill display. The first few times out my shins and other parts of my leg became sore and it took a bit to get acclimated.
I have also concentrated on other elements afterwards too as mentioned in the Chi running book such as hips straight, arms also moving backwards and not in front of you and not swinging across your body. It has taken me from a push my butt to run an 8 min mile to run an 8 min mile standing up straight not taxing my heart rate. Quite a difference and quite a journey. These references shared by others are great too.0 -
I don;t know if it's got anything to do with it, but I'm very tall (6'4"), and the last time I really focused on cadence I really struggled to get to 180. I managed to elevate from the 140-150 range to the 165 range and found it really helped my IT band issues. Basically it helped keep me from heel striking so much. Glad this topic came up, need to pay attention to it again as i'm getting back into the swing of things.
The running class I took did stress the importance of cadence, to get your feet under you and stop heel striking.0 -
If you run with music, check out something like this:
http://www.runnersworld.com/workout-music/cruise-control-running
or
http://www.cadenceapp.com/
I like podrunner :-)
http://www.djsteveboy.com/podrunner.html0 -
mjpTennis makes a good point:
"....as it is landing underneath you, the leg/foot should also be pulling back already so that when it strikes the ground it is moving with the ground and not against it."
You can't do this if you are over-striding with a low cadence.0 -
Great info here! Will be saving this post for future reading.0
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I only track my cadence when I don't feel like running and need soemthing to do, so I count. Mine is pretty much spot on 180 every single time, no matter if I'm doing 3 or 13 miles. FTR, I'm 5'6".0
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Never payed attention to this before. But tonight I took 1 minute during mile 7 and counted - Mine is 182. Close enough for me.0
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I find that when I am running with a 175 - 180 cadence, my long runs are much better. I've come to believe in the efficiency benefits of the 180 cadence.
As others have said, if you are interested in getting to (or close to) a 180 cadence, you can deliberately increase your cadence and train yourself to run at a higher cadence, but don't try to do it all at once. If you are currently running at 150 (for example) spend a week or two trying to get to 155 - 160... then gradually increase the cadence a bit at a time.
It takes a while, but you CAN change your cadence.
Ted0 -
There is a ton of good info about this topic here: http://runblogger.com/2011/02/stride-rate-stride-length-speed.html0
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Thanks everyone - lots of useful info here.
I did my first "cadence driven run" today - Metronome set to 150. I plan to do a few at this rate then up it slowly
Observations
1. It was a terribly slow run - but the might have been the rain, and the distraction factor (focusing in timing my steps) - so I expect subsequent runs to improve
2. Having the metronome in the back ground made me realize how variable my cadence is usually. I definitely rely on longer, slower striding when I feel a bit tired - so being deprived of that and keeping to short strides then entire time was painful!
I guess these are all "first time" problems - so I'm looking forward to things sorting themselves out over time0 -
I remember all those outcomes when I switched my cadence. When you get it down though, you can run so effortlessly. Continued good luck.0
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I'm 5' 10" and recently started tracking cadence with a Garmin Footpod. Turns out I am fortunate to have the same cadence of 182-188 whether I'm doing an 11 min mi or a 6 min mi. I've goofed around and tried to lower my cadence, and it doesn't feel good at all.
Higher cadence:
Less impact/injury prevention
Better strike/body positioning
Improved strengthening
Pacing flexibility0 -
I'm a quarter inch under 5'8" but my stride length is greater than people I run with who are over 6'. I generally have a midfoot to forefoot strike and I've never counted the cadence of my footsteps but I expect the number falls drastically short of 180. When I increase pace it's almost always an increase in stride length rather than cadence. When I increase leg turnover it feels uncomfortable--like I'm tripping over myself.0
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Aghh this is driving me nuts! I read this thread, thought that makes sense, and on my last couple of runs have tried to find my cadence. Right, count every left footed strike for a minute and multiply by 2. Simples, except it isn't. I lose track of the count within a few seconds, I run into people because I'm looking at my watch and I slow down because I'm not concentrating on running.
Is this because I'm an old man or because I have no co-ordination?0 -
Is this because I'm an old man or because I have no co-ordination?
Yes.
*runs away*0 -
Aghh this is driving me nuts! I read this thread, thought that makes sense, and on my last couple of runs have tried to find my cadence. Right, count every left footed strike for a minute and multiply by 2. Simples, except it isn't. I lose track of the count within a few seconds, I run into people because I'm looking at my watch and I slow down because I'm not concentrating on running.
Is this because I'm an old man or because I have no co-ordination?
You could carry a small, electronic metronome or get a metronome app for your phone. The beeping (or whatever) will be annoying, but you shouldn't have to use it for very long to get an idea.0 -
Ended up reflecting on this post last week when I went out, I managed to pick a different track on my audio so found myself at a higher cadence than I'm used to. Having been reading this I consciously adapted to the increased faster music, shortened my stride and was much more conscious of my form.
It was hard work but I knocked 90 seconds off my 5K time one night and then improved my 12 minute distance by 300m the following night.
I've been finding that music helps me a lot, so rather than trying to count my paces I aim to keep working at the pace of the music.
The form issue seemed to help me a lot as well, after three runs using a shorter stride and higher cadence I didn't have even a hint of the usual niggles. A little bit of DOMS but nothing special.0 -
Aghh this is driving me nuts! I read this thread, thought that makes sense, and on my last couple of runs have tried to find my cadence. Right, count every left footed strike for a minute and multiply by 2. Simples, except it isn't. I lose track of the count within a few seconds, I run into people because I'm looking at my watch and I slow down because I'm not concentrating on running.
Is this because I'm an old man or because I have no co-ordination?
You could carry a small, electronic metronome or get a metronome app for your phone. The beeping (or whatever) will be annoying, but you shouldn't have to use it for very long to get an idea.
Thanks for this advice, I did get a metronome app and went out for a run. Bloody Hell, 180 is very fast. I just couldn't keep it up. I recon I am running at about 150 and for the moment that will have to do. I am over 6ft tall with long legs.0
