LDL got me!

chani8

Trucking along doing my LCHF thing, and I just got bonked with a high LDL reading on latest my blood test. Ugh.

I just don't get what I'm supposed to do now. Do I just carry on eating high saturated fats, or not?

cholesterol total was 264
HDL 75
LDL 177
Non HDL 189
Tri 57

Six months ago, total was 171
HDL 44
LDL 109
Non HDL 127
Tri 91

What do you think I should do? Tweak my diet so that I'm not eating as much saturated fats, or count cholesterol? I really don't know what to do.

The good news is that 6 mo ago I was pre-diabetic and anemic, and now I'm not.

rejectuf

I'm far from an expert, but I'd imagine there's a few things you can try:

Increase vegetable intake. More soluble fiber.

Eat omega-3 rich foods more frequently; take fish oil supplements. Omega 3 can help lower cholesterol.

Green tea has been shown to have some effects on LDL levels.

justaspoonfulofsugar

Not sure of this will help but here is an article that Chris Kresser wrote on the subject of LDL
http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-why-everyone-should-know-their-ldl-particle-number

AbbeyDove

There's more than one type of LDL cholesterol. Your HDL went up and your triglycerides are down. That's excellent news. You've likely switched from the small, dense LDL particles to the large, fluffy kind (I know that sounds unscientific, but here's another article for you to look at that explains the distinction. You've likely greatly improved your heart health:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/35058896/ns/health-heart_health/t/bad-cholesterol-its-not-what-you-think/#.Utx92hDnbIU

fruttibiscotti

I agree with Abbey, I think your blood stats are showing good news. If I were you, I wouldn't change a thing in my diet.

chani8

Thanks everyone!! I've been reading the links you posted and more, and I've come to the conclusion that unless I know what kind of LDL went up, which requires further testing, this could be totally fine news.

However, it's almost time for my daily eggs and I'm too afraid to eat them. Oh well. I guess for now I'll just waste those precious yolks until I get clarity.

Btw, I do get lots of fiber in my diet, and fish oil, but I'll double my fish oil for now, to 2000mg. Here's to fishy burps! Is there any reason to not increase Omega 3?

ETA - Never mind, I'm eating those yolks, too!!

rejectuf

You can take up to 3 grams of fish oil a day. Make sure it's a high quality one though. Compare brands and see which has a higher percentage of omega 3. Some brands are much better than others.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

The good news is...........my Dr told me that those with the highest cholesterol usually live the longest.

High cholesterol is not necessarily a bad thing!!

Dragonwolf

It's also important to compare your ratios. Like anything else with the human body, a single, raw number generally means nothing. It's the ratios that are usually what's important.

From http://www.hughcalc.org/chol.php :

Before
Your Total Cholesterol of 171 is DESIRABLE
Your LDL of 109 is NEAR OPTIMAL
Your HDL of 44 is NORMAL
Your Triglyceride level of 90 is NORMAL

RATIOS:

Your Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio is: 3.89 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 3.5) GOOD
Your HDL/LDL ratio is: 0.404 - (preferably over 0.3, ideally over 0.4) IDEAL
Your triglycerides/HDL ratio is: 2.045 - (preferably under 4, ideally under 2) NORMAL

Now
Your Total Cholesterol of 264 is HIGH RISK
Your LDL of 177 is HIGH RISK
Your HDL of 75 is OPTIMAL
Your Triglyceride level of 60 is NORMAL

RATIOS:

Your Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio is: 3.52 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 3.5) GOOD
Your HDL/LDL ratio is: 0.424 - (preferably over 0.3, ideally over 0.4) IDEAL
Your triglycerides/HDL ratio is: 0.800 - (preferably under 4, ideally under 2) IDEAL

To break it down:

Your HDL got better (Norma -> Optimal)
Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio got better (3.89 -> 3.52)
HDL/LDL ratio got better (.404 -> .424)
Triglycerides/HDL ratio got better, by a lot (2.045 -> .800)

In other words, despite having a higher total cholesterol and higher LDL, your health has actually arguably improved. If it really bothers you, then make sure you're getting a lot of good antioxidents. Berries, teas, etc, are good sources of antioxidents that will help keep any damage caused by the LDL to a minimum.

Keep in mind, too that Cholesterol in general is required for a number of functions in the body, so low is not necessarily a good thing, nor is high necessarily a bad thing, especially when viewed in isolation.

fruttibiscotti

It's also important to compare your ratios. Like anything else with the human body, a single, raw number generally means nothing. It's the ratios that are usually what's important.

From http://www.hughcalc.org/chol.php :

Before
Your Total Cholesterol of 171 is DESIRABLE
Your LDL of 109 is NEAR OPTIMAL
Your HDL of 44 is NORMAL
Your Triglyceride level of 90 is NORMAL

RATIOS:

Your Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio is: 3.89 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 3.5) GOOD
Your HDL/LDL ratio is: 0.404 - (preferably over 0.3, ideally over 0.4) IDEAL
Your triglycerides/HDL ratio is: 2.045 - (preferably under 4, ideally under 2) NORMAL

Now
Your Total Cholesterol of 264 is HIGH RISK
Your LDL of 177 is HIGH RISK
Your HDL of 75 is OPTIMAL
Your Triglyceride level of 60 is NORMAL

RATIOS:

Your Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio is: 3.52 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 3.5) GOOD
Your HDL/LDL ratio is: 0.424 - (preferably over 0.3, ideally over 0.4) IDEAL
Your triglycerides/HDL ratio is: 0.800 - (preferably under 4, ideally under 2) IDEAL

To break it down:

Your HDL got better (Norma -> Optimal)
Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio got better (3.89 -> 3.52)
HDL/LDL ratio got better (.404 -> .424)
Triglycerides/HDL ratio got better, by a lot (2.045 -> .800)

In other words, despite having a higher total cholesterol and higher LDL, your health has actually arguably improved. If it really bothers you, then make sure you're getting a lot of good antioxidents. Berries, teas, etc, are good sources of antioxidents that will help keep any damage caused by the LDL to a minimum.

Keep in mind, too that Cholesterol in general is required for a number of functions in the body, so low is not necessarily a good thing, nor is high necessarily a bad thing, especially when viewed in isolation.

^^^^ this. Also, I'm concerned to learn that OP will now be throwing out the egg yolks. Egg yolks are known to reduce risk of heart disease. Here are three articles published in medical journals showing evidence that eggs are healthy:

Rong Y, et al. Egg consumption and risk of coronary heart disease and stroke: dose-response meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies. British Medical Journal, 2013.

Fernandez ML. Dietary cholesterol provided by eggs and plasma lipoproteins in healthy populations. Current Opinion in Clinical Nutrition & Metabolic Care, 2006.

Blesso CN, et al. Whole egg consumption improves lipoprotein profiles and insulin sensitivity to a greater extent than yolk-free egg substitute in individuals with metabolic syndrome. Metabolism, 2013.

kikih64

I'm glad to see this post, since I'm worried about my upcoming physical. We had screenings here at work last fall, and they urged me to see a doctor right away (and pfffed at the paleo diet!).

Triglycerides - 50

total cholesterol - 311
hdl - 100
ldl - 201

Cardiac risk ratio - 3.1

Ever since I remember getting my cholesterol checked, doctors have said it's high, but my ratios are good. I don't have any prior numbers to compare to though.

As a paleo follower, I don't eat oatmeal (always recommended) and I use warfarin, so I have to avoid fish oil and other omega 3 supplements. I too, am not sure what to do. I know my doctor will not like the 300+ number!!

Dragonwolf

I'm glad to see this post, since I'm worried about my upcoming physical. We had screenings here at work last fall, and they urged me to see a doctor right away (and pfffed at the paleo diet!).

Triglycerides - 50

total cholesterol - 311
hdl - 100
ldl - 201

Cardiac risk ratio - 3.1

Ever since I remember getting my cholesterol checked, doctors have said it's high, but my ratios are good. I don't have any prior numbers to compare to though.

As a paleo follower, I don't eat oatmeal (always recommended) and I use warfarin, so I have to avoid fish oil and other omega 3 supplements. I too, am not sure what to do. I know my doctor will not like the 300+ number!!

1. Ignore the people who are thinking that your diet is causing your numbers (at least the parts conventional wisdom says is unhealthy). Anyone with a remotely recent knowledge of cholesterol knows that a) dietary cholesterol and fat don't actually have much effect on serum numbers, and b) the ratios matter more (and look! your HDL and Trigs are off the charts fantastic!). Also, consider this - since you're likely keeping to Paleo because you feel better, the grains were probably doing some amount of damage to your system, which means your cholesterol numbers would likely be even higher if you still ate them. And who would question your diet, then? That said, it might be worth taking a look at your diet and seeing if there's anything you're eating that you might be sensitive to. For example, if you're still eating dairy, or nightshades, it might be worth cutting them out for a while and seeing if it has any effect on your numbers (see also AIP for more guidelines on what often causes reactions).

2. Find a doctor that actually understands how cholesterol works and talk to them about it. I'm not a doctor, but that high of total cholesterol and LDL looks to me like there's a chance something might be going on. This could especially be the case if you have a family or personal history of congenital cholesterol issues, or other issues that can affect the body's production of cholesterol (such as certain endocrine disorders). It might be worth talking to someone to rule out congenital issues.

chani8

Wow, such great responses!! Thank you all for taking the time to post such detailed info here and the links, etc. I'm feeling way better about this now. I've been online all day trying to sort through the info out there, and it's posters like you, who really make it much easier and clearer to understand. Thank you so much!!! <hugs>

kikih64

Yes thanks all for the responses. Dragonwolf - I know both of my parents are on cholesterol meds, and until recently I just thought it was an aging thing and that we are all destined to be on meds! I'll look into my family history a little more. Gluten sensitivity is what brought me to paleo/primal, I'll reread the literature on the AIP. I didn't think I needed it at the time, but it's worth a look. Giving up nightshades makes me sad though! I minimized my dairy, but couldn't cut it out all together.

I've been considering changing doctors for a while, this might be the reason I finally do it. Thanks again!

Dragonwolf

Yes thanks all for the responses. Dragonwolf - I know both of my parents are on cholesterol meds, and until recently I just thought it was an aging thing and that we are all destined to be on meds! I'll look into my family history a little more. Gluten sensitivity is what brought me to paleo/primal, I'll reread the literature on the AIP. I didn't think I needed it at the time, but it's worth a look. Giving up nightshades makes me sad though! I minimized my dairy, but couldn't cut it out all together.

I've been considering changing doctors for a while, this might be the reason I finally do it. Thanks again!

I know the feeling about giving up nightshades. I love me some tomatoes and bell peppers. Good luck if you go down that route. The main forums have that saying "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels," I vote we change it to "nothing tastes as good as healthy feels."

Akimajuktuq

Thanks everyone!! I've been reading the links you posted and more, and I've come to the conclusion that unless I know what kind of LDL went up, which requires further testing, this could be totally fine news.

However, it's almost time for my daily eggs and I'm too afraid to eat them. Oh well. I guess for now I'll just waste those precious yolks until I get clarity.

Btw, I do get lots of fiber in my diet, and fish oil, but I'll double my fish oil for now, to 2000mg. Here's to fishy burps! Is there any reason to not increase Omega 3?

ETA - Never mind, I'm eating those yolks, too!!

It is illogical that natural, whole foods, like eggs, are bad for you. Eating egg whites without the yolk would be concerning though imo because the healthy stuff is in the yolk. Cholesterol tests came out decades ago and they have caused nothing but grief because they don't at all provide a meaningful picture of health. The doctors over-simplify a complicated system and then take extreme liberties with providing dietary recommendations. High/low cholesterol is no indicator of health; however, there is some evidence to suggest that triglycerides are.

I actually don't think regular fish oil supplements are beneficial. Try to just eat wild fish. I believe that Chris Kresser has some info on fish oil supplements that will clarify. I too get fishy burps from fish oil; it's a sign that it isn't beneficial to my body and that I'm not able to digest it. I recently invested in high vitamin butter oil/fermented cod liver oil and I think it's a better product than most fish oils. I got a burp or two the first time I used it but I'm fine now.

Do not let imperfect/incomplete medical tests impact your decision to eat healthy foods. And no need to worry about fibre either, especially insoluble fibre. As long as you are eating a reasonable amount of veggies (some days I only eat a couple of cups) you will be fine. The 'benefits" of fibre have been extremely exaggerated. For instance, there is no relation between high fibre and reduced colon cancer rates, even though we've been led to believe exactly that. The Inuit should have never survived if fibre was so vital.

Re: nightshades. To fully resolve my joint problems I did quit nightshades for a short time and now I eat them in limited amounts. I don't have to totally avoid them to be pain free, but limiting them is worth it. And you CAN quit dairy. It took me a year to commit to quitting it for a month and surprise, it is a problem for me. Not a huge problem, but something I should not have in my diet every day. The first hint of having an issue with a food is when one "can't" give it up, even for a short time.

kikih64

I know the feeling about giving up nightshades. I love me some tomatoes and bell peppers. Good luck if you go down that route. The main forums have that saying "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels," I vote we change it to "nothing tastes as good as healthy feels."

YES!!!

chani8

"Nothing tastes as good as healthy feels" is a great one!

Just have to update you all on my researching of cholesterol. It could be that my high level LDL reading has to do with my gallbladder problems. I have a gallstone that's been bothering me for some time - on and off for the last 3 years, but it didn't show up on ultrasound until just 6 mo ago. It seems that a lack of bile excretion could cause the cholesterol to stay trapped in the body.

So somehow I need the gall bladder to excrete that bile. Just ftr, I read, and experienced, that LCHF is the best diet for gallstones. Before I figured that out, I tried going low fat, and it was awful and more painful. The more fat, the more my gallbladder at least tries to work, and the less pain. But as we see, my body is just not excreting the bile.

Only recently I started taking dandelion and artichoke supplements, which do seem to help. As well, I very recently started apple cider vinegar which also seems to help. So, I think the solution is to not worry about diet so much, but to find a way to help my poor gallbladder to work better.

With a 1 cm gallstone, I'm really not sure what I can do.