Bent over row - how much to bend?

paprad

I've been doing bent-over rows as shown in the bodybuilding.com guide here, with the upper body bent but at an angle, not parallel to the ground
http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/bent-over-two-dumbbell-row

In a recent post, Bret Contreras says to do it with the upperbody parallel to the ground.
http://bretcontreras.com/how-to-bent-over-row/

Are both methods valid? or should I be bending down more?
Also, he talks about not flaring the elbows out to the side, but in the pics of his model doing the move, the man's elbows seem to have a flare. Is it that the scapula should be retracted and that's the focus, so a little elbow flare is okay?

Thanks

TwoPointZero

Check this link:

http://stronglifts.com/how-to-perform-the-pendlay-row-with-correct-technique/

In particular, in the video at the top of the page, Glenn Pendlay talks a bit about the difference in the two types of rows.

cmeiron

Bump

Rayman79

There is definitely more than one way to row 'correctly', it comes down to the purpose and different emphasis of each exercise.

Pendlay rows are a great exercise, they target the mid back very well and have a particular use for developing power. Because it is intended to be an explosive movement, like the deadlift, you come to a complete stop after every rep and explode up. You can't do the same with the more commonly seen bent over row as you are constantly supporting the weight.

From what I have seen, most rows are done at a 45 degree angle (give or take) and can either be done with a pronated grip pulling to the bottom of the ribcage (most common) or a supinated grip pulling a little lower to the stomach (supposedly more emphasis on the lower lats as well as the bicep).

Personally, I think of it this way. If you want to develop explosive power and want to lift the most amount of weight, do pendlay rows. If more time under tension and building overall size is more important then a traditional 45 degree row is a better bet.

Interested in others' opinions on this too.

Edited to address your last question. Getting a good squeeze at the top of the movement is probably the most important aspect of any barbell row. Focusing on scapula retraction means you are lifting with your back and not just heaving the weight up with your arms and/or lower back swinging momentum. Some flaring of the elbows is inevitable (unless you are using a supinated grip in which case you can tuck them in really tightly) but they should never be out at 90 degrees - this puts your shoulders in a dangerous position.

The amount of flare will depend on individual physiology so don't try to mimic others' form too closely. You'll find that the degree of your arms probably mirrors your bench press quite closely.

TwoPointZero

The amount of flare will depend on individual physiology so don't try to mimic others' form too closely. You'll find that the degree of your arms probably mirrors your bench press quite closely.

Indeed, various sources I have read discussing Pendlay rows have described it as being as close to an exact opposition of the bench press as possible, and as such, the grip and arm motion is typically pretty similar.

pandorakick

I'm doing what Bret Contreras calls the classic BOR with the back held (almost) parallel to the floor.

paprad

Thanks for all your inputs.

Rayman, your explanation was most interesting - thanks for the detailed answer.

_benjammin

Yeah, I think Rayman nailed it.
I do Pendlay rows. Only variation is on my warmups I don't let the weight come all the way down to the floor.