Eating meat 'as bad as smoking'
nickymaire
Posts: 138 Member
*eye rolls* http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/wellbeing/9792887/Eating-meat-as-bad-as-smoking
Read the comment section...soo funny.
Read the comment section...soo funny.
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Replies
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That was crazy, I love the ones chiming in about the meat coming from feed lots0
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Well that's me convinced - veganism it is then.
Oh wait I've got chilli for lunch - I'll convert after I've had that!!0 -
then why if it's so bad is it "too early to draw a firm conclusion from the study"???
scare the crap out of people to only say that results are inconclusive..love this kind of journalism!
thanks for the laugh..one of the comments says that paleo is a mainly vegetarian diet..thought that was an interesting take on things0 -
then why if it's so bad is it "too early to draw a firm conclusion from the study"???
scare the crap out of people to only say that results are inconclusive..love this kind of journalism!
thanks for the laugh..one of the comments says that paleo is a mainly vegetarian diet..thought that was an interesting take on things
Paleo vegetarian? maybe for them.
I eat Primal and man I'm a grade A carnivore. I only eat veggies when there cut up in the shape of animals
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Garbage study is garbage. It's just vegan propaganda. This wasn't even high protein. It was on the low-end of moderate (20%+)
Also, these types of studies never isolate the food from other factors.
Think of the most unhealthy people you know. Ya, the ones who sit on the couch watching TV and eat out/order-in most days and don't do a lick of exercise. These people also often smoke and drink a lot. Those people also eat meat. They're not unhealthy because they eat meat but they are unhealthy and they eat meat.
So when you're doing a study of meat-eaters vs veg*ns, you're comparing averages and you're fooling yourself if you think the only difference between the average veg*n and meat-eater is what they eat.0 -
Garbage study is garbage. It's just vegan propaganda. This wasn't even high protein. It was on the low-end of moderate (20%+)
Also, these types of studies never isolate the food from other factors.
Think of the most unhealthy people you know. Ya, the ones who sit on the couch watching TV and eat out/order-in most days and don't do a lick of exercise. These people also often smoke and drink a lot. Those people also eat meat. They're not unhealthy because they eat meat but they are unhealthy and they eat meat.
So when you're doing a study of meat-eaters vs veg*ns, you're comparing averages and you're fooling yourself if you think the only difference between the average veg*n and meat-eater is what they eat.
Exactly! I would love to read the actual study because I am sure it doesn't take that into account.0 -
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So, now that I read the actual article. It suggest .8 grams of protein per kg of body weight, which is what I eat. I suppose I occasionally go higher, but rarely much higher than that. So what is the point? How much protein were the "high" protein people eating? And while I don't support Atkins, it really is more of a high fat diet than a high protein diet.0
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I've seen about 5 separate threads on this topic this morning. There's a vegan in running around trying to convert us all. Lol, I think I'll take my chances with my lean protein from animal sources. If I die of cancer in 60 years, I guess that'll teach me a lesson.0
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Funny that the article comes from New Zealand, where there are like 10 times more sheep and lambs than people.
If others want to eat less red meat that just means more for me.
As for vegans, I know more coming back to the dark side than I do going over to veganism.0 -
If eating meat is bad then I don't want to be good!0
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I like some of the comments in the CNN link I found earlier - http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/05/middle-aged-put-down-the-meat/?hpt=hp_t2
For once, a good chunk of them are sane and correct, including some calling bull**** on the study.
It reminds me of the thing with Cholesterol that's been happening. I found an article the other day (I wish I could find it again) that said something along the lines of "people with a TC of 100 are just as likely as those with a TC of 200 to die of CVD, so the TC threshold must not be low enough!" (yes, because that must be the reason and not, you know, that it's not a good indicator and they aren't related...).0 -
If you do find it, please can you pass it on. The cholesterol bashing really irritates me. 0
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Funny that the article comes from New Zealand, where there are like 10 times more sheep and lambs than people.
If others want to eat less red meat that just means more for me.
As for vegans, I know more coming back to the dark side than I do going over to veganism.
Haha Australia stole the "lots of sheep" crown from us a few years back...we are all about cows now.0 -
The first "rebuttal" I've seen. I am sure there will be more to follow.
http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2014/03/animal-protein-as-bad-as-smoking/0 -
Thanks for sharing the rebuttal, although I didn’t agree with it fully, it provided some sense to the whole thing. This was my favorite analogy, simple and true, “just because we observe singing in the bath, it does not mean that being in the bath causes singing any more than singing causes being in the bath.”0
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I don't see why people feel the need to take sides. I have cooked MANY vegetarian and vegan recipes in my time and I definitely will again. I think you can be totally healthy following that lifestyle and there is something to be said for not supporting the meat industry given the way animals are treated. That being said, I enjoy following the paleo lifestyle as well and will likely adhere to it for the near future. I like being flexible.0
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Not all meat is raised in CAFOs and we should all do our best to buy local and hunt our own where possible. Everyone should know where their food comes from and be involved in what goes on the table.
Not that long ago it was "eggs are worse than smoking"... and when one really looked at the study, there was a bunch of plant foods that came out far worse than the animal foods. Seriously flawed "research", as is most nutritional research. Nutrition is one area of study that history, anthropology and personal experience should come above all other information.
I take sides against vegan diets because they are absolutely unhealthy; organizations like PETA help suck young girls into it and then they develop eating disorders that they sometimes never recover from or even die; because vegans usually claim their choice is ETHICAL when it's anything but; and I have yet to have a calm and rational conversation with a vegan but have been personally attacked, ridiculed, and disrespected by many. Life is life. Just because something is big, furry, and cute doesn't mean it's life is more valuable. And we also have NO ability to measure accurately if something is "sentient" or not. All life is sentient. Even plants have clearly demonstrated sentience. Whether soil organisms are sentient or not, they are absolutely the most vital life on this planet; crop agriculture in the absence of animals (aka nutrient cycle) destroys soil. Man made fertilizers and pesticides, genetically modified organisms, plus food politics (control/dominance/patenting/loss of diversity of crops) will soon be the end of our food supply. Most food now sickens, rather than nourishes, and it's by design.0 -
Um, my sister is vegan. She is one of the healthiest people I know and has never tried to push her lifestyle on anyone. I'm sorry you have had negative experiences but you should not paint with a broad brush like that.I take sides against vegan diets because they are absolutely unhealthy; organizations like PETA help suck young girls into it and then they develop eating disorders that they sometimes never recover from or even die; because vegans usually claim their choice is ETHICAL when it's anything but; and I have yet to have a calm and rational conversation with a vegan but have been personally attacked, ridiculed, and disrespected by many.0 -
Um, my sister is vegan. She is one of the healthiest people I know and has never tried to push her lifestyle on anyone. I'm sorry you have had negative experiences but you should not paint with a broad brush like that.I take sides against vegan diets because they are absolutely unhealthy; organizations like PETA help suck young girls into it and then they develop eating disorders that they sometimes never recover from or even die; because vegans usually claim their choice is ETHICAL when it's anything but; and I have yet to have a calm and rational conversation with a vegan but have been personally attacked, ridiculed, and disrespected by many.
I have had calm and rational discussions with vegetarians, never a vegan. My stance against veganism is not a personal attack against your sister. The vegans I have the misfortune to run across are pushing their lifestyle and claiming it's the only ethical diet (and I've explained a bit why it is not, in my opinion). I have never been insulted so personally or disrespected so vehemently by any other strangers except vegans. Disagreeing does not have to become a personal attack. Obviously I strongly disagree with veganism but I do NOT personally attack people.
The "health" of a vegan likely has much to do with other lifestyle choices, and is in spite of the diet. I have read a number of published books written by former vegans (one was vegan 20 years!) and I'm sorry, but I believe what they have to say. They were motivated to share their experience to help others. It's very common to be extremely healthy when first going vegan but then health begins to deteriorate and much damage may occur over the long term. Because children are being influenced and harmed by organizations/people pushing the "ethical vegan" agenda, I find it hard to be tolerant. It is not ethical to hurt people in the name of saving animals (just the big, cute, furry, charismatic, interesting ones that is).0 -
Well she's been vegan for like 6 years and her health/fitness have only improved over that whole time. I am seeing with my own eyes that it is a healthy lifestyle.0
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Well she's been vegan for like 6 years and her health/fitness have only improved over that whole time. I am seeing with my own eyes that it is a healthy lifestyle.
What "kind" of vegan is she. I think that makes a big difference. Some that do it for ethical reasons only eat crap, some that do it for health, but follow the ideal that grains are nutritous also eat a lot of crap. There are difeinitely healthier ways to be vegan, and even some people that do well on a vegan diet long term. The problem is that not all people can eat vegan and be healthy.0 -
Thanks for sharing the rebuttal, although I didn’t agree with it fully, it provided some sense to the whole thing. This was my favorite analogy, simple and true, “just because we observe singing in the bath, it does not mean that being in the bath causes singing any more than singing causes being in the bath.”
Singing in the bath - best analogy ever!
I'm afraid I shall be committing plagiarism with that later. 0 -
Anyone who is a vegan for ethical reasons is a hypocrite. Untold numbers of animals are killed in the farming process of their staple foods. They don't even use the dead animals that are killed. If vegans really cared, they would go out of their way to avoid such death, whether that means farming their own food from start to finish or buying from someone else who does. But they don't. Because, while living a conventional vegan life is not too inconvenient, living one that is actually consistent with their ideas is too inconvenient.0
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I for one choose to eat how I eat because it makes me feel good, if other people choose to eat differently then that is their choice and far be it for me to judge them or make them out to "suck young girls into it and then they develop eating disorders". Wow, let's try and focus on ourselves and not malign other people for their choices. I don't like hearing how eating fat is bad or not eating grain isn't sustainable I'm pretty sure people who don't eat meat don't want to hear about why someone else thinks that is wrong as well. I don't go to the main forums because of the hateful judgement spewed there and it's starting to feel that way here.0
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I for one choose to eat how I eat because it makes me feel good, if other people choose to eat differently then that is their choice and far be it for me to judge them or make them out to "suck young girls into it and then they develop eating disorders". Wow, let's try and focus on ourselves and not malign other people for their choices. I don't like hearing how eating fat is bad or not eating grain isn't sustainable I'm pretty sure people who don't eat meat don't want to hear about why someone else thinks that is wrong as well. I don't go to the main forums because of the hateful judgement spewed there and it's starting to feel that way here.
I was specifically speaking to organizations like PETA who advertise in teen magazines, at schools, other places specifically aimed at children re: my comment about eating disorders. Any lifestyle that shames and pressures young people (children/teens do not have fully developed brains!) to a diet, based on fallacies, that has the potential to harm health is unacceptable. I suggest you read some published accounts written by former vegans who explain how they came to be vegan, many of whom also developed eating disorders (I suspect because of malnutrition). I did not malign all vegans because of their choice to be vegan. I gave valid arguments why I think it is not ethical, which was my point. If veganism isn't healthier (imo and generally the opinion of Paleo experts and many other people who share my lifestyle) and isn't more "ethical", what's left? Please re-read my comments. I have strong opinions certainly, but I did NOT spew "hateful judgment". Everything that I say is my opinion and my experience.
As far as I know, this is NOT a vegan forum and my opinion that vegan diets are not healthy nor ethical should not be taken as a personal attack on anyone nor is it fair to insinuate that by having a different view than you I am ruining this entire forum. I would NEVER join a vegan forum and share my views. That IS completely inappropriate.0 -
Anyone who is a vegan for ethical reasons is a hypocrite. Untold numbers of animals are killed in the farming process of their staple foods. They don't even use the dead animals that are killed. If vegans really cared, they would go out of their way to avoid such death, whether that means farming their own food from start to finish or buying from someone else who does. But they don't. Because, while living a conventional vegan life is not too inconvenient, living one that is actually consistent with their ideas is too inconvenient.
Many people have a huge disconnect with where their food comes from and I think that's truly a large part of why we are in the mess we are in now with unsustainable farming, synthetic fertilizers/pesticides, animal abuse, destruction of the food supply, etc. In my experience, it's vegans, specifically urban vegan/vegetarians, who are among the most disconnected from where their food comes from and how it is produced. When there are organizations like PETA who get millions of dollars in donations to help push their agenda on young people, that's where I get less accepting of the vegan lifestyle. (and forcing children to be vegans when no society in human history ever survived on just plant foods!)0 -
The only vegan I I've seen is one of the super ex's from scott pilgram vs the world (and he wasn't very nice). 0
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The vegan lifestyle and paleo lifestyle are essentially the same if you sub out meat for grains.0
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Let's not get on a hate on vegans session please! I used to be one! It wasn't because I was a hypocrite! It was because I was misinformed and I thought at the time that I was doing something good for the earth, animals and me. It's hard to get accurate information out there. While I would never recommend people go vegan, I think it taught me how to eat vegetables, how to read a label, and got me to start thinking about food ethics and nutrition which eventually lead me to paleo. Keep an open heart and an open mind and remember that unfortunately we aren't born knowing how to eat anymore, we have to learn.0
