Advice please for lifting routine

thedreamhazer

I've been lifting since late 2011 fairly seriously -- I had about a 4 month break in 2013 (mid year, I think) but I've been back at it.

From about November-January, I was lifting once a week (full body), then moved to 2 full bodies a week. Recently, though, I've unintentionally started doing something more like a split -- upper body one day (BP, row, OHP, lat pulldown) and lower body the next day (squat, good mornings, DL). This seems to be working nicely because I'm able to get done faster and throw in some cardio time afterward (I am trying to cut). With this "routine" I'm lifting about 5-6 days per week.

So, here's my question. I am training for a powerlifting competition, while cutting. The competition is in October. Is my current routine appropriate for my goal of gaining strength (and losing fat) or should I switch back to full body workouts and try to fit in 3 per week? If the split is an okay idea, should I be doing anything more than what I am?

My routine in more detail:

Day A
Lat Pull down 3x5
Bench Press 3x5
Bench Press 3x10 @ 65% working set weight
OHP 3x10
Row 3x10
30-60 minutes cardio

Day B
Back Squat 3x5
Front Squat 3x10
Good Mornings 5x10
DL 1x5
DL 3x10 @ 65% working set weight
30-60 minutes cardio

Example of week:
Monday -- Day B, 60 minutes boxing
Tuesday -- Day A, 60 minutes cycling
Wednesday -- Day B, 60 minutes boxing
Thursday -- Rest
Friday -- Day A, 30 minutes elliptical
Saturday -- Day B, 60 minutes boxing
Sunday -- Day A, 60 minutes elliptical

thedreamhazer

Follow-up: I'm considering switching to 5/3/1, but with a 4-day split I'd be squatting 1x a week. Is that really optimal for training?

steve_mfp

Seems a bit much actually. However, if you are continuing to add weight, no fatigue and recovering then your program is working for you.

Once you become more advanced with lifting, hitting something once a week is normally what you do. Assistance lifts will also hit some of those muscles too during the week. Your muscles need a full 72 hours to recover. So if you are doing a heavy lifting routine you will for example hit squats on Monday and then dead lifts on Thursday, accessory exercises typically being ones that compliment those movements. In 5/31's boring but big routine after squats you do dead lifts and vice versa on dead lift day. Advance lifters nervous systems will activate more muscle fibers. This is how a beginner gains strength much more quickly than an advance lifter. Once you hit your threshold the way to get stronger is to put on muscle mass.

Cardio might be a little excessive for growth but I suppose would depend on the intensity and your body's natural abilities.

If 5/3/1 is a program you want to start there are several of us here that have followed the program. I know SideSteel has run it before too. His books are very useful for different programs. I ran one of the standard 5/3/1 programs for 1.5 years and made solid gains. Currently on a new 5/3/1 program based on an Olympic template.

Another great program that I wish I found (well, SideSteel mentioned in a post,thank you sir) 2 years a go is AllPros stuff. He is a football coach that use to be on the BB forums. An MFP member stickies a bunch of his stuff here.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/12657-all-pro-s-beginner-intermediate-lifting-routines

Even if you don't use the program it is good reading. I also stalked his posts on BB forum. Good stuff. He was/is very knowledgable and trains athletes to do real stuff, not look pretty.

There are others out there also. Juggernaut Training has 2 programs on their site. DeFranco is another notable strength coach with programs. Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. A lot of people like strong lifts, I've looked at the program, I'd put it at the bottom of my list but have never done it. Just looking at the programming and progression I think there are far better and more knowledgable strength coaches out there with much smarter programs.

Regardless, whatever program you choose follow it exactly. Even if things feel easy. It's designed its way for a reason. Also give any program 6 months of true dedication before judging it.

SideSteel

Tagging. Things are a bit crazy at my home due to potty training my toddler -- but I'll try to get back to you in the next couple of days.

Maurice1966

Tagging to read later.

SideSteel

Follow-up: I'm considering switching to 5/3/1, but with a 4-day split I'd be squatting 1x a week. Is that really optimal for training?

I agree with you regarding frequency. However, that can be modified via accessory lifts.

thedreamhazer

Follow-up: I'm considering switching to 5/3/1, but with a 4-day split I'd be squatting 1x a week. Is that really optimal for training?

I agree with you regarding frequency. However, that can be modified via accessory lifts.

Bump -- any thoughts on what kind of accessory I should be adding in? I've started doing 5/3/1 BB with a day of rows added in.

Also, I hope the potty training's going well!

TR0berts

Follow-up: I'm considering switching to 5/3/1, but with a 4-day split I'd be squatting 1x a week. Is that really optimal for training?

I agree with you regarding frequency. However, that can be modified via accessory lifts.

Bump -- any thoughts on what kind of accessory I should be adding in? I've started doing 5/3/1 BB with a day of rows added in.

Also, I hope the potty training's going well!

I assume you mean BBB? Boring But Big?

That's what I do, but on deadlift strength day, I do my BBB (5x10) sets of squats. On squat strength day, I do 5x10 of deadlifts. On OHP strength day, 5x10 of bench. Bench strength day, 5x10 of OHP.

As such, I'm squatting 2 days, deadlifting 2 days, pressing 2 days, and benching 2 days.

SideSteel

Follow-up: I'm considering switching to 5/3/1, but with a 4-day split I'd be squatting 1x a week. Is that really optimal for training?

I agree with you regarding frequency. However, that can be modified via accessory lifts.

Bump -- any thoughts on what kind of accessory I should be adding in? I've started doing 5/3/1 BB with a day of rows added in.

Also, I hope the potty training's going well!

I assume you mean BBB? Boring But Big?

That's what I do, but on deadlift strength day, I do my BBB (5x10) sets of squats. On squat strength day, I do 5x10 of deadlifts. On OHP strength day, 5x10 of bench. Bench strength day, 5x10 of OHP.

As such, I'm squatting 2 days, deadlifting 2 days, pressing 2 days, and benching 2 days.

^ This is essentially what I was getting at. If you flip your accessories you can then squat/press/bench/dead twice per week.

thedreamhazer

Follow-up: I'm considering switching to 5/3/1, but with a 4-day split I'd be squatting 1x a week. Is that really optimal for training?

I agree with you regarding frequency. However, that can be modified via accessory lifts.

Bump -- any thoughts on what kind of accessory I should be adding in? I've started doing 5/3/1 BB with a day of rows added in.

Also, I hope the potty training's going well!

I assume you mean BBB? Boring But Big?

That's what I do, but on deadlift strength day, I do my BBB (5x10) sets of squats. On squat strength day, I do 5x10 of deadlifts. On OHP strength day, 5x10 of bench. Bench strength day, 5x10 of OHP.

As such, I'm squatting 2 days, deadlifting 2 days, pressing 2 days, and benching 2 days.

^ This is essentially what I was getting at. If you flip your accessories you can then squat/press/bench/dead twice per week.

Interesting, thank you. I'll give this a shot.

thedreamhazer

In a 5/3/1 routine, what do you do if you miss a lift? I just did my "3" week (week 2) and couldn't hit 3 reps on all my final sets. Do I re-try week 2, proceed to week 3 and do what I can and start back with the same numbers after the 4 weeks is up, or something else?

Sarauk2sf

In a 5/3/1 routine, what do you do if you miss a lift? I just did my "3" week (week 2) and couldn't hit 3 reps on all my final sets. Do I re-try week 2, proceed to week 3 and do what I can and start back with the same numbers after the 4 weeks is up, or something else?

How long have you been doing 5/3/1?

thedreamhazer

Sara -- I just started, this will be week 3.

steve_mfp

Sounds like your Base 1 rep max is too high.

You should take your 1 rep max, take 90% of that and use that for your template.

For example, if my bench 1RM is 300, then my working 1RM is 270. I use that number for my formulas. Not 300.

I would re-calculate.

Later in the program you may hit walls and can't hit your numbers. When this happens you don't stay at the same 1RM, you lower it by 1 or 2 steps. I know with my overhead press i have to back 2 steps every 6-8 months to get through the wall. So lets say i'm at 160 1RM and i hit the wall. I don't do 160 nor 155, i drop it to 150 and re-evaluate my form/accessory lifts etc.

I'd say finish up this cycle but drop all your 1RM by 1 step and finish they cycle, start the new cycle with your re-calculated 1RM. The use of a 90% of your real 1RM is deliberate. It accounts for bad days or a good day when you determined your 1RM.

Sarauk2sf

^^yep - that was my thought. You should not be missing reps - you should be quite a bit above the minimum at first.

thedreamhazer

I didn't follow the 90% rule because when I have in the past it's not worked out well for me -- I'm in a pretty steep deficit right now and not trying to hit near my max on lifts makes me lose strength pretty rapidly. That said, I didn't use my actually one rep maxes -- I calculated so that my "1 rep" on week 3 would be the high weight I'd been working previously for 3-5 reps -- no new 1rms for the first round through. So not being able to hit these lifts had been a huge blow to my ego.

This is all by way of explaining myself, not disregarding the information I asked for, btw. I'll drop back a little for round 2, I just don't want to lose the challenge of the lifts when I'm cutting.


(FTR - I don't usually operate on high deficits, I'll be back to a moderate deficit soon -- I've fallen into the trap of needing to lose weight by a certain date to fit into a bridesmaids dress for my friend's wedding. And we're not talking 5 vanity lbs -- like, I broke the zipper last time I put it on. Yikes).

Sarauk2sf

OHP is the one I find is hit the most on a deficit.

I would recalculate your weights based on 90%.

steve_mfp

I would recalculate your weights based on 90%.

^^ This. If you are doing 5/3/1 and you need more volume then implement 'First Set Last', if you want more weight then implement 'Joker Sets'.

The standard first set last is whatever your weight was for your first set on that day, you do that set after your last work set for as many reps as possible. For example Week 1 you should be doing 5 reps at 65,75,85 percents, then for a 4th work set you would do as many reps as possible at 65%. Another variant would be to do as many reps as possible but doing pauses...this obviously only applies to bench and squat.

Joker sets happen after your last work set. Depending on the week you'll do 5,3 or 1 rep sets. Once you hit your last set, lets say 85% for 5 reps then add 5% or 10% (5 for upper, 10 for lower) and try to hit 5 reps. If you hit it, do another set increasing the weight.

Depending on how you feel that day you can do both, just one, neither. This allows you on a bad day to hit your sets and feel good. On good days this lets you get some extra work in.

thedreamhazer

I'm going to have to look into joker sets more to be sure I understand -- I get the process, I'm not certain I understand the reasoning behind them.

I've dialed back to 90% for round 2 on most of my lifts -- squat I left alone because I've been hitting my numbers really easily for squat.

I appreciate the feedback -- and I've learned my lesson about actually following the program if I'm going to follow a program. I also appreciate the info on how to handle walls going forward.

Thanks!