Reset Gaining Fast & Furious!

PopsGils

So tomorrow will be 2 weeks of officially resetting at TDEE, for years I have eaten Under TDEE and gradually gained weight up to 155.4 pounds where I found myself this morning (minutes before ripping the crotch in my favorite stretchy skinny jeans)...

For a bit of background, about 4/5 years ago I was anorexic, but at 5"5 and 112 pounds it was not drastic physically but I under ate, constantly and then started to maintain that 112 pounds on next to no food at all. Gradually over the years started eating again, and now I eat what looks like a normal healthy diet (minus the dressing/skip the bread basket etc). I have been on MFP since 2012 and keeping a food diary for a long time and can see, other than the rare day once every month or so I eat under TDEE daily.

So in Jan I started gymming again, started gaining, whilst having a deficit which meant I should have been losing a pound a week min, so kept at it for 6 or so weeks, still nothing, went from 147 pounds to 150. Great. On March 7th I gave in to Eat More To Weigh Less and have been doing so since then, I do 20 mins cardio and then strength training for the next 40 or so mins 3 times a week and I have worked out my average cals for the past 13 days of reset to be 1840 NET cals per day.
I have gained over 5 pounds in 13 days, I live in Cape Town but I am a London girl going to my best friends wedding at home in October, last time they all saw me I was 112 pounds. I feel hopeless and lost.
Any advise on what I should do would be great cos I am feeling lower than low.
Thanks in advance

sarahorange55

Oh gosh not sure I am qualified to answer - but bless you you sound so down - don't be I can only presume that your constant under eating means your reset will take a bit longer than most - and yes scales will go up. Do you think you are eating at your real TDEE at present now? If yes you need to stay there until you stop gaining - not sure how long that can take though

Don't give up you do need to stick with it as your body will love you for it!

PopsGils

Thanks for replying, my RMR test said 1480 - x1.35 for gymming 3 times a week = 2000 cals, not quite there yet, some days yes some days no - evening out to 1850 a day for the past two weeks. When suffering from an ED your worst fear is gaining uncontrollable weight and being bigger than before and its actually happening to me, day by day. Gutted.

sarahorange55

re read your original post and you say 1840 NET - don't forget that you need to eat your TDEE (and not include extra exercise cals in there)

Either way I can feel your pain - however after resetting for 3/4 weeks I put in a deficit and dropped 5lbs in one week - so some of it might come off speedily - however you need to get your body back up to working efficiently and that means you might have to take a bit of weight on board. Don't also forget that often when lifting weights you too lighter but can often be heavier - so maybe try not to dwell in scales so much...

Tough but I do believe worth it in the end!?

Marie80brown

i started my reset over a month ago. I understand you pain. My weight gain started to stabilize my 3rd and 4th week. Then I decided to quite smoking....weight gain. Beauty is not a number on the scale. Flaunt what you got and love what you have :-)

heybales

So tomorrow will be 2 weeks of officially resetting at TDEE, for years I have eaten Under TDEE and gradually gained weight up to 155.4 pounds where I found myself this morning (minutes before ripping the crotch in my favorite stretchy skinny jeans)...

For a bit of background, about 4/5 years ago I was anorexic, but at 5"5 and 112 pounds it was not drastic physically but I under ate, constantly and then started to maintain that 112 pounds on next to no food at all. Gradually over the years started eating again, and now I eat what looks like a normal healthy diet (minus the dressing/skip the bread basket etc). I have been on MFP since 2012 and keeping a food diary for a long time and can see, other than the rare day once every month or so I eat under TDEE daily.

So in Jan I started gymming again, started gaining, whilst having a deficit which meant I should have been losing a pound a week min, so kept at it for 6 or so weeks, still nothing, went from 147 pounds to 150. Great. On March 7th I gave in to Eat More To Weigh Less and have been doing so since then, I do 20 mins cardio and then strength training for the next 40 or so mins 3 times a week and I have worked out my average cals for the past 13 days of reset to be 1840 NET cals per day.
I have gained over 5 pounds in 13 days, I live in Cape Town but I am a London girl going to my best friends wedding at home in October, last time they all saw me I was 112 pounds. I feel hopeless and lost.
Any advise on what I should do would be great cos I am feeling lower than low.
Thanks in advance

While it was probably not best to jump straight up from real current TDEE (eating level and not losing or gaining any weight) to your estimated potential TDEE (what you got from the table), still do the math on the results.

If you think this is fat, then the following math would be true.

5 lbs x 3500 cal/lb of fat = 17500 excess calories / 13 days = 1346 excess calories daily above true TDEE.

So even if you had say a suppressed TDEE at 1200 because that's all you used to eat in total for months, you would have to eat 1200 + 1346 = 2546 daily for those 13 days with NO increase to your actual suppressed TDEE to make that fat.

So you likely gained a big chunk of water weight stored in your muscles - same water you'd gain going in to maintenance eventually, and will happen again when you diet and later not diet.

So also may be dealing with some invalid weigh-ins. If you had false water weight loss on starting weigh-in and false gain on ending one - you made it look worse.

Review those days to see if they were valid weigh-ins.
Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.

Also, those TDEE tables are based on activity multiplier to your BMR - not your RMR.
Your RMR is going to be higher than your BMR.
Your BMR based on that tested RMR is 1332.
So you are inflating your TDEE right there by 192 calories. That would cause fat gain, even if the activity level was dead on correct. Which it may or may not be.

Also, prior example if you had 6 weeks and gained 3 lbs, you may have problems with your food logging, besides a bad estimate of TDEE resulting in inflated deficit figure that was actually above your real TDEE. Like if really eating back exercise calories on top of 1800 because you said NET, that is wrong.
Because the math there shows different results than above.
3 x 3500 / 42 = 250 cal excess daily.

That is very realistic combo of over-estimating your burn and under-estimating your intake. Plus perhaps some water weight, but sounds like it was slow increase, unlike current example.

Do you weigh all foods going in your mouth, did you during that 6 weeks?

Using the spreadsheet on my profile page and your stats, I show TDEE closer to 1850 if that 20x3 cardio is higher than walking 4mph, and lifting 3x20 is really good heavy lifting with sets and rests.

PopsGils

Thanks for the reply, I weigh every single day and log it onto a weight grapher so I can see what I am really dealing with and when my weight goes up in chunks - it doesn't go down again at all. Just up and up.
I had my rmr tested in a lab and the tables they gave me say my rmr is 1480 and my tdee is 2035 with exercise I currently do, it would be 1776 if I were sedentary. So I am only just eating above this at 1840 a day, not even up to my full tdee yet.
Heybales do u think this is wrong? What do u think my tdee is then?!
I weighed food for years and now am very good at knowing but still plonk it on the scale every now and again but I use specific spoons bowls etc (one tsp I use I know is 15 grams of peanut butter etc) I eat the same apples daily that I have weighed and the same pots of yoghurt same tins of tuna etc. I don't think I am over estimating, that would just be fooling myself.
It had been a long time since I ate 1200 daily, I have been slowly gaining for the past year (from 138 pounds to 155) on around 1400-1500 a day. In my first 6 weeks at gym with at least a a pound per week worth of deficit I gained 3/4 pounds.
If anyone could just give me some advice on how much I should be eating and for how long that would be amazing cos right now I don't know who or what to trust. Thanks everyone for your words

heybales

So when you eat more and gain water weight stored with more glycogen finally stored, that's not coming off unless you happen to weigh morning after hard cardio workout where you don't eat enough carbs afterwards. But you'll gain it back eventually.
That is required needed weight, and in fact increases metabolism as the body expends energy dealing with intra-cellular water.

Don't think you want that gone as meaningful weight. That would be as bad as thinking you could cut off all your long hair and thing that is a meaningful 1 lb lost.

So I mentioned the problem with basing TDEE tables on RMR, it's supposed to be BMR.
And again, their table is still based on rough guess.

So basic concept to have fixed firmly in mind, regarding your comment.

"with at least a pound per week worth of deficit I gained 3/4 pounds"

Except for above reason for water weight gain - you do not gain in a deficit, you do not maintain in a deficit. Now, you can increase glycogen stores by about 1-2 lbs, and if they were low prior and topped off that could be 3-4 lbs. But it stops there.
You did NOT have a deficit if that did not happen.
If you are sure the food side of calories in is correct, it's the calories out that is incorrect.

I'd trust the RMR test though. But that doesn't include your day.

Try the spreadsheet on my profile page - stay on the Simple Setup tab and Progress tab to record your measurements.
Just follow the directions regarding sample data deleted, all of it once you see what it means as example.
Do put in your RMR test and see what it says regarding using it or not.
I gave the figure of 1850 TDEE from that, but I didn't know a bodyfat % estimate to use to see if that RMR was on target or much lower than expected. Because if much lower, you don't want to use it. Or you'll just be chasing a suppressed metabolism in to the ground.

And 1840 or 1850, 10 calories is the amount of inaccuracy in your food logging easily. So you are basically there.
So at least stay here and see if it keeps going up.

PopsGils

Well I can assure you, even if we disregarded the excercise for a second, I have gained weight eating at a deficit, or RATHER at a deficit of what my tdee is supposed to be. This is for sure. Don't ask me to explain it otherwise I wouldn't be on this forum asking for help. I ate 1200 last year for a month straight and maintained to the last gram of my weight.
I understand u think it's impossible but if you spent every day with me you would see it is happening.. It would be really shocking for me to be underestimating so much that I have gained 8 pounds in 2 months since starting back at the gym. For the first 6 weeks I was swimming at least an hour 5 times a week. My body fat percentage is 31.

With regards to the tdee tables, the tables I was given at the lab after fasting all night etc were for RMR not BMR.

heybales

There ya go, you corrected yourself right, I just wanted you to understand that concept because many don't get it.

You cannot maintain or gain weight eating at a deficit. Gain and deficit used together - oxymoron.

That allows you to free yourself of wondering why you can't lose weight on a deficit (which you obviously are not), and more to the important part of why don't you have a deficit, and what is the solution.

Also, what your TDEE is supposed to be could never be known unless you were in one serious study that measured your sedentary TDEE in a special room, or included some normal workouts - for 24 hrs, prior to diet, and compared to during a diet, and it measured your calories burned for the whole time.

5 levels is a rough ballpark figure - you have great odds of getting rough ballpark results with it. Better odds being off then on frankly.

And no, if you reread my comments, you'll see I don't think it's impossible to maintain on 1200 with exercise - just the opposite, and I know it's entirely possible to do what it appears you did to your body.
I haven't given you this to read yet as to what you've done?
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/reduced-metabolism-tdee-beyond-expected-from-weight-loss-616251

Ready to get out of it? Obviously you asked. Did you check out the spreadsheet?

Because indeed, if you trust that BF 31%, that tested RMR of 1480 is about 90 less than calculated Cunningham RMR of 1570 - outside the 5% variance normally seen.

So indeed suppressed.
So using BF% as better potential.
Katch BMR - 1421
TDEE - 1900 with the workout described in prior posts.

So not too much lower than their estimate.

To their TDEE tables - the only reason I ask to check is because I have seen with my own eyes, scanned from people paperwork to help them, and if you didn't know what would occur you would be too trusting, I've seen the following goofiness:
Tested RMR was called BMR on the paperwork given back.
Tested RMR had been converted to BMR but still called RMR (they called and asked to find that out).
The normal Harris TDEE tables that are based on use with BMR was used with tested RMR figures.

I've seen it - therefore from experience I ask.

Because they gave you RMR x 1.35 for your level of exercise. Now, while that is different than standard Harris TDEE table of 1.375 for Lightly Active, what is the result?
RMR 1480 x 1.35 = 1998
matching BMR 1332 x 1.375 = 1832

Do you think 166 calories makes a difference, especially if it's potentially inflated?
That's the reason I ask.
You were indeed given an RMR test, my concern was the table used with that result.

Now again, this goes back to rough 5 levels or however many they had available to choose from.
How did they select, did you give hrs of exercise, or the type of exercise?

My above figures based on potential, not probable suppressed, metabolism.

PopsGils

So in 21 days of resetting at 1850 (average per day according to MFP) I have gained 5 pounds.
3500 x 5 = 17500
1850 cals x 21 days = total 38850 - 17500 = 21350 / 21 days = 1016.6
Does that mean my TDEE is actually 1016???

heybales

Does that 5 lbs include first week eating more and the fast water weight?

I think it must.

And no, that just proves you gained water weight.

Do you know where the weight gain was time-wise, like first week 3 lbs, then 1, then 1? Or bam, all 5, then nothing week 2 and 3?

Your weigh-in days were valid, morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from prior workout?

PopsGils

I weigh every day, since I started reset it has looked like this (a few days missing here or there, never more than 2 days missing)
DAY 1: 151.2
151.2
152.6
153.0
153.0
154.2
153.8
155.4
154.8
153.6
153.2
154.8
155
155.6
156
155.2
154.6
DAY 25: 153.6

heybales

So coming back around finally to day 28 to see where it stands.

I've been meaning to get a post together about the research on women, that your BMR changes from like 150-200 through the month, which of course means eating at a single maintenance figure is partly deficit, partly extra.

So it'll be interesting to see what happens in next few days since dropping.

PopsGils

heybales I am not sure what you mean, HERE
'So coming back around finally to day 28 to see where it stands.'
and also HERE
'So it'll be interesting to see what happens in next few days since dropping.'
since 'dropping' what?

heybales

Well, you aren't at 28 days yet, full 4 weeks, since initial weigh-in. Last few days you've been dropping weight. If the 28th day is valid anyway, compared to if 1st day was valid too.

PopsGils

well i don't think 28 days is a magic number so I started a cut as of yesterday and today I am back up to 154.8 pounds. So I am going to eat 1400/1500 cals a day for a while, I can't deal with this constant gain after gain. I know what you mean about 'valid' but the trend has been upwards for months and months, constantly gaining so I can't carry on, need to cut now.

sarahorange55

I think heybales was trying to say that women fluctuate so much due to monthly cycles that if you waited for the full month you might start to see a better trend on your weight I know 2 out of 4 weeks I gain badly from water weight - up to 6lb's :)

Also maybe its worth looking at another dimension to also measure - as if you check out a few of the success stories the scales are far from the best indicator?? Just a thought - this one is most recent - http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1237825-goodness-the-scale-really-doesn-t-tell-the-story-does-it

heybales

Correct, last few days was weight going down by pounds.

Couple more days could have been couple more pounds.

Full 4 weeks with start and end weight, and average eaten, would have given complete TDEE picture by doing the math.

If indeed a couple more pounds was lost in 3 more days, then that would effect the TDEE by 100 calories.

PopsGils

Thanks Sarah for your input, both measurements and body fat percentage have gone up when eating 1400 and continued to rise but faster eating 1850. Heybales, it just isnt as simple as doing the math, I have had my RMR tested in a lab twice, saying it was 1480. My weight only ever goes down when I am dehydrated from weekend wine. THen it comes right back up again with a vengance.

The first time it was tested 2 years ago I was eating 700 cals a day but my RMR/BMR whatever it was was 1480. This was not a major overestimate of food consumed on my part, and my metabolism test came up normal, so go figure??.

Maths did not give me an answer then nor does it now sadly. Three months ago, I weighed 8 pounds less, so yes it goes up and down through the month, i have graphed my weight for a year now, a year ago i weighed 138 pounds and now 154.

PopsGils

average cal over 24 days of reset eaten - 1835, 44050 total cals for 24 days, weight gone from 151 - 154.8
so 3.8 pounds = 3500 cals per pound = 13,300. SO total cals 44,050 minus 13,300 = 30,750 cals to maintain divided by the 24 days = 1281 calories. can this really be my true maintenance level, heybales this is the math, where am I going wrong??