Newbie extraordinaire

rubywanderlust

Greetings everyone!
I'm in the process of reading Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes, which I'm finding fascinating.
Although I've never tried to "diet" before, I've got some mid-life pounds I'd like to lose, and healthy eating with small portions just doesn't seem to be doing a thing.


I work in Public Health here in Canada, and am inundated on all sides about the traditional "balanced diet" (my boss is a dietician…) so am having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of drastically reducing carbs, but increasing proteins and fats.

I've joined to learn more about the concept, and look for ideas while I try to find ways to get refined carbs like bread, pasta, potatoes and white rice (among others) out of my diet.

Looking forward to learning from those who have been travelling this road for a while,
thanks - and have a great day!

Skoster1

Hi and welcome! Feel free to friend me. Keep in mind generally it's a moderate protein, high fat diet, not high protein for ketosis.

You might find these links to have helpful information:

Basic Info
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq

Recipes
http://www.reddit.com/r/ketorecipes

Macro Calculator
http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

Javascript Bookmarklet to make MFP more useful for keto
http://karoshiethos.com/2013/08/13/javascript-bookmarklet-for-enhanced-macro-goals-in-myfitnesspal/

Hidden Carbs
http://www.lowcarb.ca/tips/tips009.html

OMG YOU CAN EAT THIS!!!
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1158383-low-carb-cheesecake-brownie-mug-cake

rlengland2014

Ruby, one of the things I have learned in the month I've been doing this is that there are a lot of people who think they have the right to attack you and your choices based on what they think is healthy. Dietitians and other health care professionals are some of the worst offenders.
I was placed on this diet by a bariatric physician who understands the science. I am obsessive about understanding the science as well, and have researched extensively into the good and bad of this diet. I think you're doing the absolute right thing, but you might not want to discuss it with your boss.
I agree completely with Skoster1.
Good luck!

albertabeefy

I work in Public Health here in Canada, and am inundated on all sides about the traditional "balanced diet" (my boss is a dietician…) so am having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of drastically reducing carbs, but increasing proteins and fats.

You're not alone there. In Canada the governing body for dieticians (regardless of province) forces their registered staff to abide by the principals of the Canada Food Guide, which very-closely follows the USDA standards. Some dieticians do KNOW that the advice they're dispensing (especially for those with an impaired glucose metabolism) is incorrect - but there is NOTHING they can do about it if they want their jobs.

Unfortunately it's based on politics instead of science and simply has no science supporting it - only theories which have never, ever been proven.

There's a reason why over 90% of diabetics FAIL at controlling their disease. There's also a reason why most ketogenic dieters (whether to control diabetes, PCOS, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, or whatever) succeed at glycemic control...

Good luck fellow Canuck! Feel free to friend me and to ask me anything

rubywanderlust

Thanks for the warm welcome, and it's nice to see a fellow Canadian here.

I'll check out some of the websites. Already this is seeming all a bit overwhelming, and reading other discussion topics where people mention drinking entire cups of whipping cream just weeks a little surreal :noway:

As a beginner, not looking to jump in fully yet, what would be a good carb/protein/ fat ratio to aim for?
I have my MFP set at 20 carbs (hovering around 30 so far), 30 protein and 50 carbs. Reasonable to start with? And will that slower approach eventually help with some of the more unpleasant sensations as my carb intake drops to whatever my eventual goal may be?

And what foods are the big no-no's? Eggs? Dairy? Fruit? Are non starchy veg ok?

So many questions!!! I love to cook, but can't figure out when eating got so complicated .....

Any easy meal suggestions to get me started?

Thanks everyone!

rlengland2014

Whole eggs are good, no starchy veggies are good. Potatoes not so much.
I've been told not to drink milk, cause it's got too mani carbs. Cream, paradoxically, is fine.

albertabeefy

Although many people specify a total gram amount for carbohydrate, instead I pretty much always keep my carbohydrate intake somewhere between 6 and 9% of my daily calories. Typically if you're under 10% you'll enter ketosis and stay there if active. If you want to enter quicker and get keto-adapated faster, lower amounts work best.

I keep my protein around 20-25% of my calories when cutting (losing weight) and about 30% when bulking (trying to add muscle mass).

Obviously makes up the rest. Typically a little over 70%.

A true ketogenic diet is high-fat / low-carb / moderate protein - most people find they do best in the range of 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbohydrate for getting into ketosis.

As far as foods to avoid: Grain, any/all refined/processed carbohydrate (basically ANY flour/sugar), starchy vegetables (potatoes, corn, parsnips, etc.).

Eat all the eggs you want, please. :-)

Fruit should be done in moderation - lower GI fruits such as berries and cherries are the best option. I eat berries or cherries every day, for the nutrients in them, but in quantity low-enough to keep in ketosis. I'll occasionally have 1/2 an apple or a small fruit cup (packed in water) as well. All my fruit snacks stay at < 10g of carbohydrate total and are always accompanied with FAT (fresh or whipped cream, maybe some cheese, nuts, etc.)

As for meal suggestions: I eat simple things:

Breakfast:
bacon/sausage and eggs, sometimes with cheese
Low-Carb Pancakes (see below)
LCHF protein shake (see below)

Lunch:
Sandwich on oopsie roll (google it)
Leftovers from supper
Salad, lots of fat/oil

Supper:
fatty cut of Steak (new york, ribeye, etc.) / Caesar salad (lots of dressing/bacon/cheese)
Chicken Cordon blue (extra cheese, low-carb breading)
Sausages, Brocolli/cheese/bacon casserole with side green beans or asparagus
Fish, etc.
Keto Pizza - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhimFAfPr4I

Snacks:
Nuts
Cheese
1/3 cup berries with heavy cream
gluten-free pepperoni sticks (avoid pepperoni with wheat)



Some Recipes I use:
LCHF Protein Shake: 3/4 scoop of high-quality whey isolate protein, 1/2 to 3/4 cup of heavy cream (depending on caloric requirements), small handful of berries and baby spinach leaves, sprinkling of stevia/truvia.

Low-carb Pancakes:
1/4c Almond flour
1/8c Whey Protein Powder
1/8c Vital Wheat Gluten
1tsp baking powder
1tbsp cinnamon (I hear this is good for us diabetics)
1pkt splenda/equal/whatever sweetener you like

1egg
Splash of milk (enough to get the batter the right consistency)

Mix/sift dry ingredients well, then add the egg and milk. Makes 3-4 small pancakes. Much better texture/taste then some others I've played with. Getting pretty close to what mom used to make.

Other recipes:

Check out Kent Altena's videos - he's been eating keto (Atkins specifically) for quite a while and has dozens upon dozens of excellent recipes: http://www.youtube.com/user/bowulf/videos

DiabetesForum is mostly geared towards KETO recipes: http://www.diabetesforum.com/diabetes-recipes/

Skoster1

Thanks for the warm welcome, and it's nice to see a fellow Canadian here.

I'll check out some of the websites. Already this is seeming all a bit overwhelming, and reading other discussion topics where people mention drinking entire cups of whipping cream just weeks a little surreal :noway:

As a beginner, not looking to jump in fully yet, what would be a good carb/protein/ fat ratio to aim for?
I have my MFP set at 20 carbs (hovering around 30 so far), 30 protein and 50 carbs. Reasonable to start with? And will that slower approach eventually help with some of the more unpleasant sensations as my carb intake drops to whatever my eventual goal may be?

And what foods are the big no-no's? Eggs? Dairy? Fruit? Are non starchy veg ok?

So many questions!!! I love to cook, but can't figure out when eating got so complicated .....

Any easy meal suggestions to get me started?

Thanks everyone!

Super simple way to start...

Set your goals on MFP:
Fat: 70%
Protein: 25%
Carbs: 5%

Eat this stuff:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah8MbmZepQxWdGo4bnB2QmxxMUlmTzZUTXYzMURRLWc#gid=0

Track every single thing you eat using a food scale.

Make sure at the end of each day the amount of stuff you ate has pretty close to the macro percentages you set and is at pretty much the calorie goal you set.

If in doubt, eat less carbs, and if still in doubt eat more fat.

rubywanderlust

Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions. I went grocery shopping tonight, and rediscovered the cream cheese section in the dairy case. When did they create all those flavours? :laugh:

Although it's early days I'm finding this is easier than I thought it might be. The key for me will be keeping some variety in my diet so I don't get bored. It will help now that I know I can now make all those cream and cheese sauce recipes I use to deem to high in fat to make.

I've got my carbs down lower today, and the bulk still remaining are from the sugar in my tea and coffee. I picked up some Stevia tabs and some Truvia tonight. I'm hoping they don't taste too horrible - I tend to avoid foods that are overly processed.

cheers,

Skoster1

Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions. I went grocery shopping tonight, and rediscovered the cream cheese section in the dairy case. When did they create all those flavours? :laugh:

Although it's early days I'm finding this is easier than I thought it might be. The key for me will be keeping some variety in my diet so I don't get bored. It will help now that I know I can now make all those cream and cheese sauce recipes I use to deem to high in fat to make.

I've got my carbs down lower today, and the bulk still remaining are from the sugar in my tea and coffee. I picked up some Stevia tabs and some Truvia tonight. I'm hoping they don't taste too horrible - I tend to avoid foods that are overly processed.

cheers,

Hmm, I'll have to look into those flavored cream cheeses, I just assumed they would be high carb from the sugar.

Keep in mind there's hidden carbs in fake sugar: I count one packet of Stevia as 1g of carbs because it's like .8 or .9.

AMPitup89

Gary Taubes is a great resource on the subject! Also check out the art and science of low carb living. There's even a sequel to it now too. One of the most compelling things I've read is that a very LC diet lead to people losing the most while keeping on the most muscle! Many diet comparison studies are flawed in that they consider a LC diet to be a diet of like 30-40% of carbs and that just isn't low enough. Low carb advocates would agree that that carb level is too high. A must read!

I completely understand your concerns of your boss's judgment. When I tell people what I'm doing they compare it to the time they went on nutrisystem and gained all the weight back or think its simply a atkins diet. If need be, keep it to yourself if you can. or just say you're doing a GF diet or elimination diet.

Frankly, before keto I had been having a lot of symptoms that cleared up. I'm waiting to see a endocrinologist to have my hormones checked but I have a lot of symptoms of PCOS and/or hormone imbalance. Some that i know will take a while to clear like (like male pattern hair growth - yuck!). I also had minor symptoms of IBS. Frankly, those cleared up FAST for me but they were minor. Not to mention the mental clarity I now have!

Also, 2 years ago I woke up in extreme pain hardly unable to get out of bed. This happened overnight and it persisted for 4 months with no relief. I tried all kinds of things like stretching, supplements, exercises, OTC drugs. I didn't have insurance at the time and was limited in income. It was the most extreme pain in my life. It was hard to sit in a office chair for 30minutes or stand in line for 5 minutes. I was absolutely miserable and became so depressed. Decided to start getting back to a healthy weight by going LC (wasn't aware of keto at the time). After 2 weeks, i was 90% better. And a month of LC I was completely free of pain and full of energy. For many people LC/keto will make them feel so much better and even lose excess weight.

Like I said, I'm feeling better and the pounds are melting away. I have a lot of refinement to do as I still eat rather processed foods like LC hotdogs or salad dressing that uses canola oil as a main ingredient (it has the best macros at my local store). But it's making it easier for now to learn what works for me. I plan to start making my own mayo and dressings soon but its all a process. Feel free to add me as a friend and take a look at my food diary for ideas.

And if you don't have a lot of support from those around you, maybe you could get that from the keto groups online. I'm new to this group but the group forum posters seem lovely. Good luck and sorry for the novel!

AMPitup89

Oh and about transitioning...

I'm fairly certain I'm "keto-adapted" or "fat-adapted" now after a month. the first 2 weeks I slipped in cheats on the weekend Like a crepe with breakfast but was consistly LC during the week at about 25-35 carbs a day. And these last two weeks I have become more strict and lowered my carb levels. For me, I still went through the carb flu about 1-2 weeks in. But its usually one really crappy day. if you have sick time, I'd say plan to take a day off and just stay in bed and sleep when it hits you. After that I started to feel a little better each day.

Also, try to find liquid stevia! Since there is not bulking compound to make it into crystals, its carb free! I found only 1 type in my local store but theres plenty online at amazon or vitacost. Probably also at health food stores. There's even flavored ones. YOu could add that to plain cream cheese! or anything really.

I completely understand the variety concern. I usually keep it simple during the week for ease and do more variety on the weekend. I really suggest finding local restaurants that have nutrition information posted/online and figure out where you can go and what you can get. That way you are prepared for a spontaneous night out or a lazy day. And of course variety. Also, I will say that now being fat-adapted has made me enjoy foods in a healthier way. Like for nutrition purposes more so than simply taste. And I've always been a "taster" my whole life. Sugar/carbs just don't control my cravings and tastes buds anymore.

Also find LC recipes for the things u love. I LOVE pizza. I've found a pizza dip recipe i want to try but i also do a quick LC pizza on a LC tortilla. And honestly, my craving for pizza is no longer eating away at me. When my bf ate chinese in front of me the other day, it didn't affect me at all. Its weird and I'm very surprised myself. The beginning is the hardest part so stick with it and try to make every day better than the last!

rubywanderlust

I went for the smoked salmon cream cheese. You're right about the carbs for things like the chocolate or fruit flavoured, I'm sure!

I've also decided sweeteners taste horrible. I'm big on having things taste good, and won't consider eating something if I don't like it. Fortunately I like most things. I tried a tea in Tim Hortins yesterday with 1 sweetener (Splenda?) and I couldn't drink it. My head was spinning after 1/4 cup. Yuck!

I'm still not sure I want to go fully keto, but I am certainly getting the carbs down. My nagging worry is that if I don't get them down low enough to trigger ketosis, then will I start to put on weight from the extra fats? 20% carbs seems comfortable doable for me at the moment - slough I seem to have trouble getting the fats up above 50. But, it is early days and I haven't properly explored new recipes yet. I did discover Caveman Keto yesterday though

Deborah105

Just watch your calories as well. We can't go hog wild with eating even though some think so. Ask me how I know!

Deborah105

What a great thread! Everyone has so much fantastic information to share. I love it.

Skoster1

Just watch your calories as well. We can't go hog wild with eating even though some think so. Ask me how I know!

Smart lady!

For variety, just adapt. My dinner tonight was taco salad. I used some taco seasoning with 5oz of ground beef (81% lean, not the low fat stuff), a couple tablespoons of sour cream, 1/4 cup of cheese, and 100 grams of thinly sliced romaine lettuce. Basically just taco rice without the rice (if you've been to Okinawa, you know what taco rice is).

Today I got out the door late and had to eat stuff I could buy from convenience stores. Beef jerky, boiled eggs, salad, some mini sausages. If I had a food scale at work I could have picked up some nuts and sunflower seed kernels.

There's lots of food out there, just start looking and you'll find it.

AMPitup89

From my experience, I only realized the FULL benefits of keto once I really committed to it. LC is great in a lot of ways and it helped me in a big way. Keto is definitely a step up from that. I think of it like climbing Mt Everest. You know you are making progress up and any progress is great. But the closer you get to the top, the more accomplished you feel and the more motivation you have to keep going. That's what moving from LC to Keto is for me at least.

To get my fat up I always add things like butter, mayo, olive oil, dressings, and coconut oil. Also, when I'm getting my protein in i pick fatty options. If the protein is higher than the fat, I pass. If i want chicken, I eat the skin with it. When i do this, I always get my fats up in the 70%. Sometimes to get higher (my goal is 80%) I need to supplement with fat bombs or coconut oil in my tea. The satiety i get from this way of eating is incredible.

Experiment with LC. Many people start there and later work into Keto. There's no need to rush into keto!

albertabeefy

Experiment with LC. Many people start there and later work into Keto. There's no need to rush into keto!

True - many people get incredible results (both weight-loss and glycemic control) simply but eliminating refined/processed carbohydrate/sugars from their diet - without going keto.

The key is to find where YOU as an individual NEED and WANT to be - balance it out, and live both healthier and happier.

rubywanderlust

Great advice. I have to admit I feel good - more energy, and the scales are going in the correct direction. Tracking really helps me figure out what impact various foods have. The challenge will be when I could rather involved recipes - finding the time to enter them into a program (either MFP or my recipe software) might be difficult.

I seem to be hovering around 1500 calories per day, and don't feel hungry for the most part. I'm actually eating more salads and veg now than I did before, but do miss the sweetness of fruits.

Skoster1

...but do miss the sweetness of fruits.

http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/low-carb-fruit.html

For fruit taste, you don't need a ton to make a smoothie or something else fruity tasting. Try mixing a bit into your low carb cheesecake recipe or something. Also, sugar free Jello, while not devoid of carbs (sneaky packaging, when you see things like maltodextrin in the ingredients your carb alarm should go off), has very few and you can get fruit flavoring that way. Some people use those Mio squirt things, but I haven't yet. I think I'll make a trip to the commissary again today and see if they got in almond milk and have Mio. It's kind of a pain here since everything is hit or miss. You can't count on something you eat as a staple being consistently available.

I just always remember that fruit is really just natural candy.

rubywanderlust

That's a very informative site you mentioned.
It also confirmed what I've suspected, is that I'm losing a lot of water right now. The pounds seem to be falling off (4 in a week, and I only really want to lose 10-15 lbs). I'll take it any way I can get it.

Being stationed away must make this extra tough. Did you say you were in Japan?