Eliminating food groups?

GrokRockStar

I posted this elsewhere and didn't get a response, so I'm putting this out here to my Paleo peeps...

So I got into a disagreement with my sister, a nutritionist and RN, who says that it isn't a good idea to eliminate an entire food group from my "diet" and that my eating should reflect all food groups. I know she is preaching what she has learned in school, but I just don't agree with it. If I don't like dairy, I'm not eating dairy. If I think grains have too many carbs for my liking, then i'm not eating grains. I'm not trying to win an argument, but I'd like to hear other opinions based on your personal experiences. I don't know, is this a losing argument for those who follow the SAD?

Nutmeg76

To me food groups are represented by macronutrients, carbs, fat and protein. Are you eating all three? If the answer is, "yes" than what food group is missing? Or you can say that food groups are represented by plants and animals. Under animals falls seafood, dairy, eggs, muscle meats, organs, etc. Under plants falls fruits, veggies, grains and legumes. Are you completely eliminating ALL plants or only some plants? What would she say to a vegetarian or a vegan? Would she chastise them for cutting out a "food group"? A lot of medpros won't, but they can't see how that is even more limiting.

Akimajuktuq

This "Food Group" idea is just a meaningless human invention. Inuit thrived for a very long time with no dairy, no grains, and almost no vegetables and fruit. How's that for "eliminating food groups"?

I agree with Nutmeg. The macros are the "food groups". We are all eating fat, protein and carbs. The only one that is not totally essential is carbs, but except by necessity, why avoid them completely? It would even be unwise to do so considering that our modern diet has us avoiding the most important foods such as organs, bone marrow, etc. In other words, I can't thrive like an Inuit on no carbs unless I am eating the foods that allowed them to do so and I'm not. So, I need my veggies.

Food Groups: Animals, Plants, Fungii, and even Bacteria and Protista I suppose....

ldula88

When someone says eliminating a whole food group is unhealthy (usually, they mean grains....) I usually just ignore them. The only thing that matters is overall calorie consumption and macro/micronutrient requirements being met. If you are getting all the essential nutrients your body needs, and have balanced macros, you will be fine. Your body can't tell if you are getting (for example) carbs from fruit or from bread. It just knows that you're eating carbs. Same for fats, proteins, etc. When people tell me that cutting out grains is unhealthy, I simply ask them to name one macro/micro I would be eliminating that I can't get from another source. That usually shuts them up, because there isn't one.

butterbear1980

My definition of what is a food has changed a lot in the last five years. When you eat real food you don't need rules. Or food groups. Food groups are completely constructed. Buy your sister a copy of good calories bad calories. Seeing the history of how we perceive fat and carbs as a society in the last 100 years should be required reading for everyone o
In the medical field

GrokRockStar

Yes, im eating my macros and getting everything I need nutrition-wise to manage my diabetes. Your comments validate that I'm on the right track. I eat protein, fats, veggies, fruits (low glycemic) and nuts, which i call my five-finger eating plan. I've been keeping my way of eating pretty private when it comes to non-pale/primal eaters, but when it comes to family, they're just all up in my business. I will help re-educate my family, but gently because im dealing with three generations of nurses and some battles just aren't worth the trouble. Thanks for the input!

monkeydharma

Everyone's given good advice, but I'd like to add one more wrinkle....

Don't be on the defensive - let HER be on the defensive. Ask her what it is that she thinks you'll be deficient in if you eliminate dairy or grains. Make her be specific - if she's a nutritionist, then she shouldn't be able to get away with vague generalities. Take her list, research it if you need to on marksdailyapple, and show her where she's wrong. For example: calcium? I get my calcium from kale, broccoli, bok choi and other dark green leafy vegetables - and plant calcium is more easily absorbed than animal calcium. Fiber? Plenty of soluble fiber in the plants I eat - and soluble fiber is better for you than the insoluble fiber from whole grains, anyway. And so on.

If you are eating a 'plant strong' paleo/primal diet, there is nothing good for you in dairy/grains that you cannot get from a plant or animal source But - make her do her homework first, then educate her.


http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/blog/whole-story/non-dairy-sources-calcium
http://www.thesynergycompany.com/v/ba_plantcalcium.html

fisherlassie

Everyone's given good advice, but I'd like to add one more wrinkle....

Don't be on the defensive - let HER be on the defensive. Ask her what it is that she thinks you'll be deficient in if you eliminate dairy or grains. Make her be specific - if she's a nutritionist, then she shouldn't be able to get away with vague generalities. Take her list, research it if you need to on marksdailyapple, and show her where she's wrong. For example: calcium? I get my calcium from kale, broccoli, bok choi and other dark green leafy vegetables - and plant calcium is more easily absorbed than animal calcium. Fiber? Plenty of soluble fiber in the plants I eat - and soluble fiber is better for you than the insoluble fiber from whole grains, anyway. And so on.

If you are eating a 'plant strong' paleo/primal diet, there is nothing good for you in dairy/grains that you cannot get from a plant or animal source But - make her do her homework first, then educate her.


http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/blog/whole-story/non-dairy-sources-calcium
http://www.thesynergycompany.com/v/ba_plantcalcium.html

I like this a lot Monkeydharma!!

I also think that micro nutrients are important. People especially on the MFP forum go on about macros all the time but the micros you get from eating vegetables, meat, fish, eggs, nuts, some fruit and maybe dairy depending on how you roll is the way to go rather than just thinking macros from anywhere. Which is why I like the primal/paleo focus on whole food that still has the micros. Preaching to the choir here I know but I just couldn't help myself. ; )

GrokRockStar

Thanks monkeydharma, that's a great idea! I'm always on the defensive and usually the first one to walk away in frustration. I actually planned on sharing my primal blueprint book with her so that she understands where I'm coming from. I think she'll be open to that.

SteamClutch

Tell her you are getting highly processed grain through the chicken you eat, they eat the scratch, you eat the bird, walla!

GrokRockStar

Tell her you are getting highly processed grain through the chicken you eat, they eat the scratch, you eat the bird, walla!

Love this!!

monkeydharma

Tell her you are getting highly processed grain through the chicken you eat, they eat the scratch, you eat the bird, walla!

A clever response.

The only problem is that one should ideally be eating 'free-frolicking' ('free-range' has been co-opted by the industrial poultry growers, and means nothing anymore), pastured poultry - not grain fed. Grain fed birds get corn and soy meals - two of the most highly GMO-contaminated grains around. The omega 3/6 ratios are way out of whack, and the eggs are pale and lifeless. 'Organic' poultry are still grain-fed, only from non-GMO sources - sightly better, but only if you can't find real birds.

Howbouto

Tell her you are getting highly processed grain through the chicken you eat, they eat the scratch, you eat the bird, walla!

A clever response.

The only problem is that one should ideally be eating 'free-frolicking' ('free-range' has been co-opted by the industrial poultry growers, and means nothing anymore), pastured poultry - not grain fed. Grain fed birds get corn and soy meals - two of the most highly GMO-contaminated grains around. The omega 3/6 ratios are way out of whack, and the eggs are pale and lifeless. 'Organic' poultry are still grain-fed, only from non-GMO sources - sightly better, but only if you can't find real birds.

^^ Yeah but she won't know all of this stuff.

GrokRockStar

I usually buy the open nature free range/grass fed brand of foods, however, I don't put much stock in it because the brand doesnt claim to be GMO free, only that it's free of antibiotics, growth hormones, and the animals are vegetarian fed, which we all know is a marketing tool to get Paleo-type folks to buy their product. Maybe it's one step better than the regular meats, but not by much.

Akimajuktuq

I usually buy the open nature free range/grass fed brand of foods, however, I don't put much stock in it because the brand doesnt claim to be GMO free, only that it's free of antibiotics, growth hormones, and the animals are vegetarian fed, which we all know is a marketing tool to get Paleo-type folks to buy their product. Maybe it's one step better than the regular meats, but not by much.

If the chickens are free range they would not be "vegetarian fed". They eat bugs, worms, etc in addition to seeds and whatever they can get their little beaks into (they even scavenge). Not so much grass. I'm trying to picture that. lol I see "grain fed" (so "vegetarian" is another way to indicate "grain" as we know) stamped on everything as if it's a great thing and I just roll my eyes and mutter to myself like a crazy lady. Local, free range is always the best option, then after that, just do your best. Get to know your farmers.

GrokRockStar

I usually buy the open nature free range/grass fed brand of foods, however, I don't put much stock in it because the brand doesnt claim to be GMO free, only that it's free of antibiotics, growth hormones, and the animals are vegetarian fed, which we all know is a marketing tool to get Paleo-type folks to buy their product. Maybe it's one step better than the regular meats, but not by much.

If the chickens are free range they would not be "vegetarian fed". They eat bugs, worms, etc in addition to seeds and whatever they can get their little beaks into (they even scavenge). Not so much grass. I'm trying to picture that. lol I see "grain fed" (so "vegetarian" is another way to indicate "grain" as we know) stamped on everything as if it's a great thing and I just roll my eyes and mutter to myself like a crazy lady. Local, free range is always the best option, then after that, just do your best. Get to know your farmers.

I dont think the chickens were grass fed, it applied to the beef, i think, i just made a general comment about their brand. i know a local farmer but his prices are ridiculous, likely because of the demand, so I'll have to do my best with what I have to work with. I do grow some veggies from heirloom seeds, and beefing up my seed bank, so i'm slowly moving towards putting the right stuff into my body.

monkeydharma

I dont think the chickens were grass fed, it applied to the beef, i think, i just made a general comment about their brand.

Yeah, technically poultry aren't "grass fed" or "pastured", but it's a shorthand that's understood - free-feeding rather than penned.

i know a local farmer but his prices are ridiculous, likely because of the demand, so I'll have to do my best with what I have to work with. I do grow some veggies from heirloom seeds, and beefing up my seed bank, so i'm slowly moving towards putting the right stuff into my body.

I hear ya. I justify it two ways:

1. You get what you pay for. Cheap meat is like cheap ANYthing - made with shortcuts from substandard components. Quality pays for itself in anything - but especially in nutrition.

2. I defray the additional cost of a GOOD chicken by buying a whole bird. I can make four meals for two people from one bird:

- Roast the chicken using your favorite recipe. Serve the leg/thigh as the protein for Meal #1 with sides of your choice;
- Slice off the breast meat and use for Meal #2, on a salad or as the protein in a recipe.
- Debone the carcass and use it (the carcass) to make stock, then use the stock to make a big pot of soup with the deboned meat and veggies of choice. I can get two meals out of this.

When you consider I get four dinners (or meals) out of one 5 lb. bird, it's not very pricey at all.

GrokRockStar

Thanks for the feedback. My hubby reminded me on how much money I spend on eating out every month, which is about $700, which doesn't include my grocery bill. Surely I can use that money to enhance and improve on the foods I eat. I was just making excuses. This will be my homework this weekend, hooking up with a local farmer.

Akimajuktuq

Thanks for the feedback. My hubby reminded me on how much money I spend on eating out every month, which is about $700, which doesn't include my grocery bill. Surely I can use that money to enhance and improve on the foods I eat. I was just making excuses. This will be my homework this weekend, hooking up with a local farmer.

OMG on the eating out. How do you manage this lifestyle when you don't have control over your food? On a vacation a few years ago I was so careful to avoid wheat and then later found out that it was common practice to dredge all meat in flour . So even though it wasn't battered and I couldn't see it, the wheat was still kicking my butt. Not too mention the crappy/toxic oils the restaurants use too...

I'm glad you are choosing to spend that money on better food. Yay!

butterbear1980

Um, farmer here to clear this up. Free range chickens will forage 20-50% of feed from insects aand pasture but after that they need some supplemented feed grains and seeds are a birds natural diet so a gmo free soy and corn free ration is great for chickens. Free range doesnt mean grain free!

GrokRockStar

OMG on the eating out. How do you manage this lifestyle when you don't have control over your food? On a vacation a few years ago I was so careful to avoid wheat and then later found out that it was common practice to dredge all meat in flour . So even though it wasn't battered and I couldn't see it, the wheat was still kicking my butt. Not too mention the crappy/toxic oils the restaurants use too...

I'm glad you are choosing to spend that money on better food. Yay!

I usually eat at steak and seafood places and choose wisely, however, who knows what extra ingredients are added to the food. It's silly because I can buy it cheaper and make it at home. I'll get there.

GrokRockStar

Um, farmer here to clear this up. Free range chickens will forage 20-50% of feed from insects aand pasture but after that they need some supplemented feed grains and seeds are a birds natural diet so a gmo free soy and corn free ration is great for chickens. Free range doesnt mean grain free!

Thanks for schooling us on chickens. I grew up tending chickens in the south, and they roamed and ate whatever they could find, but we did feed them grain. i have no idea what was in it cause i was a kid and GMO or organic wasn't discussed back then. I have goals of having a chicken farm and raising bees (I'm working an my certification) when I permanently move out of the city. I plan on getting a couple of goats too!

Akimajuktuq

Um, farmer here to clear this up. Free range chickens will forage 20-50% of feed from insects aand pasture but after that they need some supplemented feed grains and seeds are a birds natural diet so a gmo free soy and corn free ration is great for chickens. Free range doesnt mean grain free!

I don't know if you are addressing my comment. I did say seeds, which would include "grains" but I was talking "in the wild" diet. Of course if we keep chickens through winter they will need us to feed them. Yup "free range" absolutely does not mean "no grain" and it can mean almost "all grain" unfortunately. I think that 50% insect consumption would make a HUGE difference in the nutritional value of chicken.

jellerose

When people talk to me about healthy grains I ask them why most grain based food has to be "enriched"? If I'm going to do vitamin additives I'd rather take supplements. ; ).