Starting Keto.. any tips/critiques for my plan?

Shaselai

I have recently started Keto and have kept at it for about a week now. I decided to be more active on the forums and am curious what you guys think about my current diet plan:

Goal: lose 80pds+ by Winter
Meal plan:
1100 calorie diet at 70/25/5 breakdown - pretty religious with my fitnesspal tracker..
Currently:
Breakfast: ~100 cal
Lunch/Dinner: ~400 cal
Snacks: Macadamia nuts pads the rest

In terms of meats i am pretty flexible on them but dont really like bacon but do like sausage patties. Vegetable wise I eat watercress a lot so i try to have some with lunch/dinner.

Exercise plan: Target FitBit total calorie burn: 3500
I usually do ~2hrs a day. M-F i do a weightlifting routine followed by cardio which is usually Zumba or Les Miles classes (goes to Gold Gym) . I usually hit the 3500 calorie on my fitbit late evening, sometimes earlier if I do more cardio but i suspect i hit it earlier since fitbit doesnt register weighttraining.

I dont really feel fatigued or anything yet and I usually get 5 hours of sleep. Don't have a carb crave at all - i was never a carb craver - more like a food craver before i decided to go on this journey...

Any recommendations?

thanks

AMPitup89

I've only been keto for about a month (and keto-adapted for about 1-2 weeks) but I'm really getting a good feel of what works for me. Of course, you could be different.

My first question is are you hungry a lot? Are you getting hunger pangs? If so, up the fat and probably the calories.

Personally I aim for my fat to be 80% (some sources recommend a goal of 85% fat but it's a little too aggressive for me). I can easily skip breakfast and make it to lunch without eating and NOT feel like I'm going to chew my arm off. This is considered intermittent fasting (IF). I have my dinner about 6-7pm and obviously don't eat the rest of the night and until about noon the next day. Essentially eating 2 large, fat heavy meals with no snacks (i dont feel hungry in between at all). Thats about 17 hours for my body to feed on the dinner and turn to my stored fat as fuel. For me, I've noticed that when I do this, I lose fast. Each day I have done this so far, I wake up to a pound lost. One day I went out for breakfast and the next morning I only lost .2lbs. IF isn't for everyone and I didn't try it until I was fairly certain I reached keto-adapation. Over the weekend I went all day without eating. Finally got a little hungry around 5pm and had a nice big fatty meal. This sounded extreme to me too at first but its way easy to do now that I'm keto-adapted so have a open mind.

Also, i know for a lot of people exercising in the beginning can be counter-productive if that's not how you've lived prior to keto. Sometimes it could be a big shock to the system with a drastic diet change and increased energy expenditure. I don't know this from experience, but I've read this from many people. I've also heard that keto-adapted people put on muscle faster. So if thats your goal, AWESOME!

OH, and I have started a few supplements to increase my sensitivity to insulin. One item is a blend of a few things like Cinnamon (high quality, pharmaceutical grade) and Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA). This will make it easier for your body to overcome insulin resistance that is common among obese individuals. And ALA is great in many other ways besides insulin so its a no brainer for me. Research and determine if this could help you. I've also heard of MCT oil being a great help but I haven't been able to find it locally. I see it online tho.

I've been reading a lot on this and so far I'm getting good results both weight wise and symptom relief wise. But again, this is only my experience.

Keep it up!

Shaselai

thanks for the informative post! I dont have hunger pangs BUT yesterday i did "cheat" out of my 1100 plan by 50 calories by eating a few more macadamia nuts than i had calculated... I have never been a breakfast person and currently my breakfast is just a boiled egg at work and i have the beforementioned 400/400 breakdown between lunch and dinner and if i have extra calories to fill i add more calories to dinner - i always have avacado paste and sausage patties for fillers!

The problem with fat for me is when i looked at the foods i eat the fat is almost even up with protein and if i add "pure fat" items like butter etc it eats up my total calories by a lot so i didnt go 80%. I live alone and i usually cook big meal for 4 days... like this week my meals were like:
Breakfast: boiled egg
Lunch: chicken thigh with skin curry. Curry is curry powder in water with large onion and 2 large green peppers (split 4 meals so not too much carb..)
Dinner: steamed watercress with pork shoulder cube meat stir fry withprepackaged sauce pocket (it says 5 g carb ), again split 4 ways so not a lot of carb.

I do have a food scale as well and try to weigh raw food before cooking to have an estimate. once cooked i try to eyeball the portions when i divi them up!

As for snacks i do eat macadamia nuts throughout the day and evening after dinner (i hit the gym 6-8 so i eat 8ish) i dont need to eat at all. I am saying i dont need to eat because my bad habit from before is even i dont "need to eat" i could binge eat in an instant.....

From myfitnesspal with the fitbit calorie expenditure it is estimated i should lose maybe 4ish lbs per week. This is assuming i burn 400 calories exercising a day which i think is a low amount..

By the way, when you calculate your intake do you account for the added calories from exercise or you eat what you set out to eat? Usually i end up with 500ish+ "extra" calories to net it out... i know fitnesspal recommends eating those up....

AMPitup89

I wouldn't worry about those 50 calories. Why? Because those food labels/nutritional information have a level or error built in. It can be as high as 20% higher or lower than stated!! So really, you could be eating 1,320 or 880 calories a day. Calories counting isn't a perfect science for this reason.


My amateur advice is to keep on, keepin on the way you have been for another few days to a week and see if its working for you energy and weight wise. Perhaps keep a separate little log on your smart phone or a little book and each week or two ask yourself if you're feeling energized, are you seeing definition in your muscles/feeling stronger, and losing the weight you want?

Personally, I wasn't as strict the first 2 weeks and had a few lingering cravings. So the next two weeks I set out to lower my carbs and up my fat. So far I'm getting the results I want but I need to be careful to get more fiber. So for the next two weeks I'm only going to change my fiber. I think 2 weeks is a good time frame to let your body adjust and see how its working.

Don't forget that your weight lifting is likely going to build muscle that could lower your weekly overall weight loss. You could lose 4lbs of fat but put on 1lb of muscle and the scale will say a 3lb loss (which is still good). On a positive note, muscle uses more energy so the more muscle you have, the more calories/fat you will burn just sitting around.

Some people can handle more carbs than others so there isn't a set rule for everyone. What I've learned from others with success is that its a learning experiment and we all react differently.

I haven't logged my exercise. Partly because its been sporadic things. For example, I hate to clean so each day I do "cleaning mania". Its when i clean vigoriously for 15-20minutes as fast as i can. I'm sure I'm burning calories scrubbing the tub as fast as i can. I look like maniac (LOL) but it kills two birds with one stone and gets it over with fast. Also, taking my dog out to play or for walks. I don't have a car at the moment (ugh) so its hard to make it to the gym much. I'm losing weight so far so i figure I can up my exercises when i get a new car. I'm planning to focus on dropping fat now and when I get closer to my goal, increase the exercise.

In your case, it might be a good idea to eat those calories that you are burning. Your calories are already REALLY low (some might say too low but I'm not qualified to make a judgment) and it could be dangerous to not eat enough, especially with the activity level you do. Perhaps finish your 1st two weeks and maybe the next two weeks increase your calories?

Sometimes what might work for a month may not work the next month. Our bodies are excellent machines and they are always changing and adapting. So you will likely have to change it up at some point to keep making progress.

Hopefully others will pitch in with their 2 cents!

Skoster1

Have you checked to see what your BRM is? You probably ought to if you haven't because, unless you're very small, 1100 calories is extremely low. 4lbs per week is also an extremely high goal, many sources say it's not safe to go above 2lbs per week caloric deficit.

I'm no expert, all I know is that in the past when I've gone too aggressive I've set myself up for failure.

Good luck whatever you decide! :-)

Shaselai

Have you checked to see what your BRM is? You probably ought to if you haven't because, unless you're very small, 1100 calories is extremely low. 4lbs per week is also an extremely high goal, many sources say it's not safe to go above 2lbs per week caloric deficit.

I'm no expert, all I know is that in the past when I've gone too aggressive I've set myself up for failure.

Good luck whatever you decide! :-)

wow how long did it take for you to lose all those pounds and what was your plan? I havent checked my BRM yet...

Miamiuu

Make sure you eat vegetables every once and awhile because you can get constipated on this diet. Also take a multivitamin to make sure you are getting things you maybe missing out on. Lowest its recommended to go is 1200. If you are working out Id eat back your calories burned.

lrmall01

Make sure you eat vegetables every once and awhile

+1

With your numbers, you have a carb target of 55g. You'll want to make sure that about 20g comes from fiber (creating a net carb total of 35g, for example)

My only other comment if that it seems your calorie total is a little crazy, IMHO. Feel free to start with that but you might want to eat more if you are hungry on workout days.

FIT_Goat

You are probably pretty close to your max deficit on your current plan. Your deficit should never exceed the amount of fat your body has (in pounds) times 30. So, if you have 90 pounds of fat, your deficit should not be over 2,700 calories. If you consistently exceed this deficit, your body is not able to get all the calories it needs from fat and will start finding other ways to make up the shortage (muscle tissue, lack of energy, lowered metabolism, etc.).

Personally, I think you're trying too hard. This amount of calories is probably not sustainable. If you want to do it anyway, you should continue to monitor the absolute amount of fat you have left and adjust your calories upwards as your fat goes down. If you're really burning 3,500 calories a day, you can eat 2,500 calories a day and lose more than 80 pounds in about 10 months. There's no need to try to get it done in 4 months (which is the rate you're currently trying to sustain for the 80 lb loss).

Shaselai

I checked my BRM and it is 2456.
I use fitbit everyday and my past month's average burn is 3400. I noticed myfitnesspal estimates 2,760 burned a day with my setting on sedantry (i have office job..) but differs from the 1.2 * BMR formula... so in pure number form:
Total calorie deficit = 3400-1100 = 2300??? is that right? That means 2300*7/3500 = 4.6 pds a week. It will still take me half a year + to get me where i want to(100 pds) though and I havent been "tested" with eating out yet.

Which brings to the max deficit... how do i know how much fat my body has - guess getting a new scale? I am pretty sure i have more than 90 pounds of fat in my body but it is very good to know about that.

But then again i have "officially" started Keto recently and this is the second week although I have been watching carb intake for a while now so i didn't do a complete nose dive into "no carb zone". I am fitting vegetables in my meal plan and i think my staple vegetable for now is Watercress. It tastes great and almost "no carbs" and calories :
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2718/2

As for the weightloss i am really hoping to see the 10s digit drop every 2 weeks - i probably see that less and less as the water weight stabilizes but the main driving force for me to sustain this is to see my weight decrease...

I agree that this diet is probably not sustainable but I think I want to reach the point i cant take it anymore then work my way up bit by bit so i can get a greater loss as long as possible. I wouldnt mind eating more meat .

Booksandbeaches

Are you getting enough fat in the day? The fat is supposed to be your biggest macro. I do something close to 10% carbs, 30% protein and 60% fat. You'll need to watch the vegetables to make sure you're not eating more carbs in the ratio to protein and fat. The ratio matters. The more I exceed my protein intake, the weight stalls.

I think you're really pushing your body hard with the plan you have and this backfire on you in a bad way. You're also setting yourself up for disappointment with the hope for such big losses each week.

I'm within 9 pounds of my original goal weight, which would put me at the normal weight I was when I got married. I've decided to lose 5 more pounds in addition to that. But I eat about 1,453 calories a day. The weight is still coming off. Not as fast as the beginning, but I never aimed for double digit losses. I was and am happy with a pound loss each week.

Booksandbeaches

How much fat are you getting with a day like the one you mentioned?

"Breakfast: boiled egg
Lunch: chicken thigh with skin curry. Curry is curry powder in water with large onion and 2 large green peppers (split 4 meals so not too much carb..)
Dinner: steamed watercress with pork shoulder cube meat stir fry withprepackaged sauce pocket (it says 5 g carb ), again split 4 ways so not a lot of carb. "

This seems more like a "regular" calorie watching diet day rather than LCHF.

kittyneutron

Frob has some great advice.

I'm new to keto myself, but I've spent about two months researching it before I jumped on the bandwagon.

First off, your calories are way too low. This was a mistake I made as well starting out. I set my calories at 1300 which was almost a 1000 calorie deficit per day. In other words-wayyyy too much. It's natural to want to maximize weight loss, but if you're going to do it the keto way, you really have to re-program your brain about the way your body sheds the weight in ketosis as opposed to the more typical low calorie diet.

There is really no need for you to overthink the amount of calories you get per meal. One of the mottos I hear keto folks say is "Eat when you're hungry." It's definitely a huge 180 from the mentality of dieting, where its more like, "If you want to lose, you need to suffer and starve." I'm not saying you won't have cravings, but when doing keto, you must keep things in balance to achieve the very best results.

You say you are having 100 calories at breakfast, 400 for lunch and dinner for a daily total of 1100. This is way too little! Women should not go under 1200 calories per day and even that is considered extremely low. I'm consistently eating between 250-400 calories at least at breakfast, with a good balance of protein, carbs and fat. I like to have eggs, bacon and coffee, and vary it a bit-some days I'll have an omelet fried in butter, other days just one fried egg. But you want to really get in a good solid breakfast to get your body on the right track to start your day! Lunch and dinner are always meat and vegetables and some kind of fat (like a cut of steak, a head of broccoli and a side of sour cream) The whole point of keto is to avoid hunger pangs, normalize blood sugar levels and promote stability all day long.

When planning meals, I try to get a good balance between my fats, protein and calories. I don't think you can get enough nutrients and enjoy the benefits of keto when you're eating so little. Also: nuts. Not the greatest filler to rely on. At roughly 15g of carbs per 100 grams it's just not worth it when you have so many other filling options! They are so easy to overdo. Also, a good portion of your carbs should be coming from veggies.

There really is no need to be eating so little while doing keto. If you watch your carbs, track your calories and monitor your loss you will quickly see that!

You say that right now you are exercising 2 hours per day. If you are only eating 1100 calories per day you are restricting to such a severe degree that you are risking not only electrolyte inbalance (and that can put you in the hospital!) but also muscle wasting and adrenal exhaustion. Not to mention decreased concentration and fatigue. (If you aren't feeling it yet, it will definitely happen, no human body can subsist without calories.) Two hours of exercise sounds like quite a lot, especially lifting every day combined with an hour of aerobics. Your body does need time to recuperate!

Another risk is that with a large amount of weight to lose, you are setting yourself up to crash with such a hardcore approach. From what you have written, your plan does not sound sustainable over the long term. Being new to keto, I think it's worthwhile to take your time getting to know how your body responds to it before trying to do such heavy calorie cutting and exercise.

Let me know if I have misunderstood your post in any way. I'm not trying to criticize you and your goals, but I would hate to see you do it in a way that is potentially harmful to your body.

Also: here's some great links for you to check out! I found them incredibly helpful.

Keto Calculator: get your personal ketogenic diet recommendation
http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

A Guide to Meals and Keto Friendly Recipes
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nFFXn_Uve5uh0qtqdAa0HvpEqqwKn6K00Z773pgLmEw/edit?pli=1

If you don't read anything else, read this. A Guide to Ketosis:
http://josepharcita.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/guide-to-ketosis.html

FIT_Goat

You can estimate your absolute amount of body fat by getting an estimate of your bf% and multiplying that by your current weight. I use a combination of methods that estimate body fat and use the average of those. I use the tape-measure method (which tends to give me my lowest numbers), a hand-help electrical device (tends to give me a value in the middle), and the BMI->BF% formula (which gives me the highest values).

For example my most recent measurements:
fat2fitradio.com: 18.5%
Military: 18.2%
Covert/Bailey: 16.4%
Device: 22.7%
BMI: 26.69%

Based on these numbers, I can assume I am around 21-22% body fat. It may very well be wrong, but it's the best I have until I can find a cheap/local way to get a better measurement. I then multiply by current weight (77.8kg) by that 77.8*0.21 and get 16.3kg of fat (35.9 lbs of fat). Which makes my max deficit around 1,075 calories a day.

In short, it's all an estimate. If you're truly 100+ lbs overweight, you're very unlikely to exceed the safe deficit at this point. You're also in an unfortunate spot where all of these above bf% estimates are highly inaccurate because you're far outside the sample populations used to generate them. But, as you lose more and more weight, it becomes more important to be aware of your max deficit and these methods become more accurate for you.

Anyway, the big thing is to mind your own reactions to this. If you feel hungry all the time, if you're noticing a lack of energy, if you find your body temp when you get up is lower than usual (something you should probably establish a current baseline for), if your loss over a month doesn't seem to line up with where your calories in/out suggest it should be... then you could be exceeding your body's ability to compensate for your caloric deficit from fat alone. Just be mindful when trying for huge deficits like this. Weight didn't come on overnight, it won't go off that fast either. This is a marathon and not a sprint. The last thing you want to do is hurt yourself in an attempt to get healthier.

lrmall01

But then again i have "officially" started Keto recently and this is the second week although I have been watching carb intake for a while now so i didn't do a complete nose dive into "no carb zone". I am fitting vegetables in my meal plan and i think my staple vegetable for now is Watercress. It tastes great and almost "no carbs" and calories :
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2718/2

See my earlier comment regarding carbs and fiber. You'll need about 125 cups of watercress per day to get your fiber in so you might want to think about adding some more vegetables (green beans, cauliflower, broccoli, spinach, etc.) to your day.

You might want to look here for some ideas: http://www.ruled.me/7-day-keto-diet-plan/

Shaselai

Thanks or the feedback!
I am getting enough fat per day... and it has been slightly exceeding my allotment while protein is still under. I eat the nuts to help the fat stay up - i have never been a "pure fat" guy with butter and bacon and such but i do use avocado and others to fill it up. As for fiber i do take fiber supplements in addition to the vegetables i eat per day - i might add in spinach in as well. As to my reactions to this new diet I dont feel that hungry until dinner time but that is probably because of gym and being back around 8 than anything else. I dont feel lack of energy, at least no different than before i guess.

" if your loss over a month doesn't seem to line up with where your calories in/out suggest it should be... then you could be exceeding your body's ability to compensate for your caloric deficit from fat alone."

I am curious what you mean by that? Are you saying with my current estimate of 4.5 pds a week if i dont lose ~18 pds theres something wrong or if i lose more than that?

Also i think i read about how Keto dieters are not worried too much about calories - why is that? Doesnt it all come down to math in the end or Ketosis burn more calories than normal? Like if a low carb dieter vs a keto dieter both eating 1500 cal would the keto dieter lose more?



I do like to cook good food like for lunch i made a burger patty with jack cheese and avocado... estimated 440 calories..

FIT_Goat

See my earlier comment regarding carbs and fiber. You'll need about 125 cups of watercress per day to get your fiber in [. . .]

Wow, that's a lot of watercress!

I'm a huge person for listening how your body responds to things. I find that a lot of fiber tends to cause me more digestion issues than when I have very little/none. When I first started keto, I supplemented with fiber to make sure I was getting the right amounts. I ended up constantly constipated, gassy, and with random pains in my stomach. When consuming <10g a day, I have none of these issues. I've been on a fiber binge this week (last 5 days have all been 19g or higher) and I've been suffering for it.

I've noticed my fiancee is the opposite. If she goes without enough fiber, she ends up suffering for it.

I still get a fair amount of fiber, from time to time, but I don't really watch it.

FIT_Goat

" if your loss over a month doesn't seem to line up with where your calories in/out suggest it should be... then you could be exceeding your body's ability to compensate for your caloric deficit from fat alone."

I am curious what you mean by that? Are you saying with my current estimate of 4.5 pds a week if i dont lose ~18 pds theres something wrong or if i lose more than that?

It can go either way. If your body starts tearing down muscle to compensate for the inability of the fat to meet the needs, you could end up losing more weight than the 3500/lb formula would suggest (muscle provides less energy per pound). If your body down-regulates your metabolism or activity level, you could end up losing less weight than the 3500/lb formula would suggest. If the difference is a pound or two, that's no big deal. That's within the error of measurements. If it's 5-6 lbs or more, then you should investigate it and watch it. It all goes back to knowing yourself. I've worked to calculate my average TDEE over time (not using the formulas but actual intake and rate of loss). If that starts to drop or climb above minor variations of 150 calories, I would be worried. I end up making things more complicated than they need to be. The main thing, when pushing your body as hard as you are, is to know what is "normal" and pay attention if things start going outside that.

For example: You take your temperature each day for the next week when you get up. It always falls between 97.8 and 98.3. After a month, you take your temperature when you get up and find it at 97.3... that's a bad sign. Not because 97.3 is a "bad" number but because it falls outside the normal range you've established. Drops in temperature are associated with drops in metabolic rate (your body is slowing things down because there aren't enough calories to keep going).

Also i think i read about how Keto dieters are not worried too much about calories - why is that? Doesnt it all come down to math in the end or Ketosis burn more calories than normal? Like if a low carb dieter vs a keto dieter both eating 1500 cal would the keto dieter lose more?

This is a complicated question to answer. For the most part, I don't worry about calories. I find, without trying, that I average 1,800 calories/day. That's about 700 under my TDEE, so I end up losing weight. I don't really try and hit that number. I just aim to be above 1,650 (my max deficit would allow me to go down to 1,575) and stop eating if I am not hungry. If I have a day where I go over 2,300 calories--and I often do--that's no big deal. I don't stress about eating if I am hungry. The long term average seems to work out. So, calories do matter. But, they tend to mind themselves for a lot of us.

Further, there are reasons to believe the keto dieter would have a slight advantage over time. Keto is well known to spare lean body mass to a greater degree than other metabolic states. If both dieters started with identical body compositions, weights, and metabolic rates, then it is possible that over a long enough time, the difference in body composition (and thus metabolism) could shift in favor of the keto dieter. We don't really know for sure. There haven't been enough well-controlled and long-term studies to be sure. Assuming everything remains the same for the duration of the diet (both people maintain an identical deficit and maintain the same ratio of fat/lean burned to compensate for that deficit), then there would be no difference at the end. Those are two very big assumptions though.

lrmall01

Wow, that's a lot of watercress!

According to his link, watercress has 0.2g fiber per cup, hence the need for a lot of watercress. I agree that fiber can be different for everyone but I stand by my suggestion that the OP should eat more vegetables. It is so common for people on a keto type diet to not eat vegetables despite common suggestions like this one from Ankerl's keto calculator:

Below 50g of net carbs each day is sufficient for most people to stay in ketosis. Make sure to get your carbs from vegetables (10-15g), nuts and seeds (5-10g), and fruits (5-10g). Keep in mind that in Europe food labels generally show net carbs, while America shows total carbs. Calculate net carbs by subtracting fiber from total carbs.

I think the OP should start there and if he has issues with gas, bloating, etc. then re-assess.

FIT_Goat

Yeah, I saw that after I posted it. I'm certainly not anti-vegetable. Lots of them are good. I still include a fair amount. I just stopped supplementing fiber because of the problems. I've never turned down a salad or vegetables from concern about the issues. I do mind my portion sizes though. And, if I've had a big cobb salad for lunch, I may not have my typically huge portion of spinach with dinner.

Shaselai

What other little things do you guys watch out for? Like sugar substitutes a no no? I used to use splenda for tea etc. I am trying to quit soda and have switched to sparkling flavored beverages (vita zero etc.) and am curious if those artificial stuff affects the diet in any way?


I will definitely be watching out for bad signs because the last thing i want to happen is not being able to continue the diet physically.