Ballance/Parenting Qustion with a bit of a Rant....

jakejacobsen

I am a little more then a month into making shifts to eating paleo/primal (still not sure where I will fall).

I didn't mind learning as I went and making errors along the way as my diet (what I eat not for weight loss) is better than it was, or at least I think it is. I got a bit more serious a week ago and started logging and found I wasn't eating enough calories, and am still working on fixing it. Now its time to figure out balance of everything.

I am now highly concerned for the balance of nutrients and what is needed because my wife and children jumped on board. This is a good thing I think but I am worried about if they are getting what they need. This is odd cause I am sure they weren't before. Any sources that can help me to get this figured out quickly would greatly be appreciated, and your thoughts and ideas.

My biggest concern as of now is can one eat to much cabbage? I love it and they do to is cheep and filling too. (we only used to eat it with corn beef). I have read somewhere that to much is bad. It doesn't seem as we are getting ill from it, sure a little gassy at fist but the air has seemed to have cleared now and were still eating it. Pizza Hut did the same thing so I am not worried, but the whole "every thing in moderation thing is in my head".

I eat about at least 200 grams a meal some 600 grams, (I am probably over 1000g a day easy)every one in the family is, about that much as well. This week the four of us consumed at least 10 pound Is that to much? We eat it roasted, sauteed, raw and even in our eggs.

I know its odd but suddenly I am concerned and re thinking this whole life style simply out of fear. Most parents of children eating SAD diets are not eating a balanced diet getting all the nutrients they need. I have no doubt mine were not either. My worry now is that were following a style of eating that some don't agree with for many reasons most which I find unfounded concern but all the same It won't be long before someone in my family has a fit about my 10 year old not drinking milk or my obese son eating "to much fat".

I know were getting calcium in cauliflower, (we also just picked up kale) and other areas and am reading and learning as much as I can, its almost an obsession. Have any parents had the same worries concerns, and judgments passed from others? What did you do. I felt sick to my stomach as I encouraged my 10 year old to eat a bowl of cereal because I know its crap but he didn't want the scrambled eggs and veggies I made. Its so wrong that I feel fear of judgement for encouraging my children not eat processed foods. There are no books at the library as they have all been checked out, and well the inter web I can find that any thing I want to that will agree with anything I want it to. I am not a nutritionist, and don't know who is right and who is wrong. Ok end of rant I need to go get things done so I can obsess about nutrition tonight. Thanks for reading this my diary is open my kids have been eating what I have (for the most part), feel free to take a look and share your thoughts, friend me if you would like. It would be great to have someone experienced give me some feed back. (We haven't gone organic yet, still trying to figure out a budget to just get the veggies and the meat instead of bread and crap)

Dragonwolf

Do you like saurkraut? That might add some variety will still letting you eat cabbage, and the fermentation gets you probiotics, which are great for your gut. Other than that, I'm not totally sure, as I don't really eat much cabbage. That said, from the look of the nutrition facts for cabbage, there doesn't appear to be anything that you could potentially overdose on (it has very little Vitamin A, so you're not in much, if any, danger of turning orange, or overdosing on Vitamin A or its precursors; and it's not really possible to OD on Vitamin C, but at 1000g or more a day, you can rest assured that you're getting enough at around 500% RDV ), so I doubt there's really such thing as "too much," except if it's pushing out other foods (which it might be, 1,200g of cabbage is only about 300 calories, so if it's filling you up, you might want to cut back on it some in favor of more calorie-dense foods, at least until you get everything balanced).

As for being judged -- you're a parent, and you're Paleo. I hate to say it, but it's bound to happen sooner or later. Put your big boy panties on, arm yourself with information, and deal with it as it comes. Since you're tracking, try to keep track of the amount of Calcium and Vitamin D you're getting. If you're son and wife are eating the same, then you can show that they're in no danger of lack of calcium by dropping milk (and in fact, Dr. Cordain posits that even at lower levels of calcium in a Paleo diet, absorption is better due to higher levels of D3 and fewer calcium-binding agents, making each bit of calcium that much more valuable). And if he's going full Paleo, too, don't worry about your son being fat -- he won't be for long (seriously, boys, especially adolescents, seem to do especially well on Paleo when it comes to dropping body fat -- you might have to add milk back into his diet at some point solely to keep some weight on him (I suspect the uniquely high insulinogenic effect of milk and the IGF-1 stimulation it does has a lot to do with that as a "remedy")), and the naysayers about his dietary fat intake can stick that in their pipes and smoke it.

And fiber? Hell, your cabbage intake alone probably blows most people's fiber intake out of the water (1,200g has 31g of fiber), and it's the type of fiber your body can actually use, not the kind that is basically just poop inflaters.

I think the biggest concern will be making sure your son gets enough calories and the right balance for him. As a growing kid, he needs it. That may mean including a serving of sweet potatoes or some such, even if it's not something you'd eat. He can deal with higher carbs than you, especially if he's active (which he likely will be, even if he's not now). While you transition, it might help to at least make sure the cereal is gluten free. That way, even though you're still making a concession, it's the lesser of the evils of cereal.

So, what is it, exactly, that you're afraid of for your family? Missing nutrients? If I didn't already cover anything, mention it and we can help you make sure you're including the foods that have it.

Or are you just fearing judgement? If that's the case, it's no reason to quit Paleo. Arm yourself with knowledge of the likely arguments, and research the ones you're confronted with, when you're confronted with them.

SteamClutch

Agreeing with Dragonwolf here and would add that there are plenty of blogs and books out there for raising kids on Paleo. If your son is going to drink milk just make sure it is whole milk and organic because there is so much real garbage out there that has been drained of the complete proteins that make milk good for you in the slightest way, at least there would be a small benefit to it that way.

onionparsleysage

What I've read from primal parents is how important it is to let kids have variety to choose their own carb/protein/fat balance. They tend to need a lot more carbs than the average adult, so putting out a bowl of berries or melons or other fruit every meal is ideal.

I don't think I'd eat 10 lbs of anything in a week, except maybe beef. You can't get ideal nutrition from eating so much of one food. Collard greens are great boiled with pork. Kale chips. Sauteed spinach with garlic. Variety is key! (and plenty of fat)

jakejacobsen

Thanks for the info, Its not that I am worried about what people think, but I am unarmed knowledge wise. My son has dropped 6 pounds this week already and is now logging what he eats, and avoiding carbs like the plague, even the ones in veggies. Probably my fault because I am watch mine like a hawk. I would like to drop them further but he will follow then.

The trouble I am having is convincing him he needs them, he knows I don't really know and I can't find a list of what a body needs at this age. Its all the Governments suggestions which means SAD diet and loads of carbs low fat..... which if I monitor and educate him with this information on what he should eat its the normal SAD diet.

I just went through my macros on reports and I am under some over others which is fine but I honestly don't know what they are or do. Nor what a teenager needs, I am not so worried about damage to my grown body as I feel its less likely then an adolescent if he his missing this or that. It just seems as though I am finding a lot of deep discussions about this and that (most well over my head or referencing books, which I haven't read yet and bazillions of recipes, but as a new person I really just need basics. I need to make sure his body is getting what it needs to develop properly, but there is more info on how to hide the veggies in his food then what he needs to eat. I am not anti milk, or any food honestly. I get that the food we eat is messed up and we eat the wrong things which is why many are not healthy. The more I read the more I find that I may as well become a farmer and grow my own meat, and veggies. I am discussed and frustrated, just seems like it shouldn't be this hard to eat healthy.

GrokRockStar

It's okay not to have all of the answers upfront, it can be trial and error, but the more you research, the more you know what's working and what isn't. Just keep an eye on your kid and don't let this way of eating turn into an obsession. Kids are impressionable. I would also suggest that you become familiar with the science, which would strengthen your understanding. Primal Blueprint is a really good book that helped me greatly!

primalkiwi

I don't have children of my own, however my best friend is raising her preschoolers primally. She initially had trouble with the cereal as well but the girls seem to have settled for berries and yoghurt as their preferred breakfast. As with adults I would suggest eating a rainbow of colours in your veggies (green, orange, red, purple veg) as a way of ensuring you are getting variety and including more fruit for the children as they do have a higher carb requirement. Pop 'children' into the search engine on Marks Daily Apple - there's a lot of info there. Congrats on getting your whole family on board!

onionparsleysage

You're way overthinking this

Put a hunk of fatty meat on the table, a few different vegetables, and berries for dessert. Keep some raw veggies & nuts around to snack on if you get hungry.

Mix it up!

Then you'll be fine No one eats perfect nutrition and I'm not sure that's even a good goal to fit your nutrition exactly to the average macros.

Dragonwolf

You're way overthinking this

Put a hunk of fatty meat on the table, a few different vegetables, and berries for dessert. Keep some raw veggies & nuts around to snack on if you get hungry.

Mix it up!

Then you'll be fine No one eats perfect nutrition and I'm not sure that's even a good goal to fit your nutrition exactly to the average macros.

Yep, this.

Since you're watching carbs, though, and it's rubbing off on your son, here's a quick primer:

Protein -- building blocks. Used first and foremost for lean growth and repair. The most obvious source is meat, of course, but veggies have some in them, too. You want to get enough to maintain your lean mass, but not too much that it cuts into fuel sources. About 1g/lb of lean body mass in active adults, kids can probably get away with more.

Fat -- long-running fuel. Think of this as the gasoline in a street racing car. It can get you from point A to point B at most speeds, with a wide range of distances that point A and point B can be. It also helps absorb several micronutrients, including vitamins A, D, E, and K. A minimum amount is required -- .35-.45g/lb of total bodyweight for adults, I don't know if kids need more, but with Paleo, you're probably not in any danger of not enough fat.

Carbs -- quick-burning fuel. Remember the street racer? This is the NOS. It supplies a ton of energy, but only for a very short amount of time. Endurance athletes are familiar with this and refer to it as "hitting a wall" or "bonking." Active individuals will continue to use the carbs they consume, either immediately, or to fill their depleted glycogen stores. There's no safe minimum (ie - there's no limit under which is dangerous), provided you're getting all of the necessary micronutrients. There are several types, some faster burning than others.

Fiber -- technically a carb, but treated slightly differently. The main purpose is to maintain gut health. Some fiber is used to feed the gut flora, while others are used to keep things moving through the intestines and prevent blockages.

Now, as for your son, I'd venture to guess that the 6lb loss he saw was largely due to decreases in glycogen stores. Even if he's eating carbs, if it's a reduction from what his previous consumption was, and if he's more active, then he's going to be burning it and not replacing it as rapidly. What concerns me slightly more is his refusal to eat veggies because of the carbs.

I think what you need to explain to him is the difference between your body and his, and that because he's growing and possibly more active, he needs more carbs, if for no other reason than more calories. More importantly, he needs the nutrients in the veggies, so that he grows properly. Vitamin A is needed to support proper eye development, calcium for bones, folate for nervous system development, etc.

As for sourcing food, start befriending farmers and going to farmer's markets. There are tons of farms around you and find one you like. You can check out EatWild for places to start ( http://www.eatwild.com/products/wisconsin.html ). Also, you might want to get involved in your state's raw milk movement, since it's kinda-sorta legal there ( http://www.wisrawmilkassociation.com/ ), if for no other reason than to help your state's food laws overall.