Hypertrophy/strength gains without progressive overload?

sijomial

Wonder if you can help with advice regarding a training block that I’m in?

Due to a misspent (but highly enjoyable!) 20’s and 30’s I’m stuck with a collection of chronic injuries that are conspiring to cause a stall in my training progress.
Knees, back and to a lesser extent elbow and shoulder injuries.

2013 was a very good training year (example: bench press up from 139lbs to 220lbs, about 20lbs from lifetime best) but I haven’t really made any progress in the last three months on any lift – weights and measurements are very much static and when I do try and increase it’s my damaged joints that give up. Three different injury flare ups in three months are making it hard to hold on to current levels let alone improve.

Shoulder press is a good example of my predicament – I have to be careful with vertical compression due to 3 badly compressed lumbar discs (multitude of disc herniation events over the years) which lead to nerve impingement. So I can comfortably do 10+ reps at 130lbs, 6 reps at 140-150lbs leads to soreness and feeling very vulnerable to back spasm next day, 160-170lbs for 3 reps and I’m in pain and some loss of function for a few days.

So question is – any ideas how I can break through this plateau in both/either strength and hypertrophy when the usual stimulus of progressive overload is difficult to achieve in the normal way of simply increasing weights? More volume is all I can think of….

(Background: Aged 54, been strength/weight training in various forms since the 1970’s, currently strength train 3 times a week using mixture of free weights, bodyweight and machines, can’t do most of the big barbell compound lifts apart from BP.)

SideSteel

Overload does not necessarily always have to include adding weight to the bar. You could see what happens when you increase your volume (edit: I see you mentioned this in your post, I'd go that route first), you could look into alternative lifts that target the same muscle groups without aggravating the injuries, you could also consider looking into BFR/occlusion training as a work-around. (<-- not sure how this would apply to certain muscle groups but it may be of use depending on your limitations and how you could apply it).

SideSteel

Additionally, as one example if you're not training shoulder press for specific strength reasons you could consider doing DB presses or even a DB incline press and supplement with raises.

Also, depending on the nature of the injuries if it's something where things just seem to have been acting up as of late, take a look at your deload frequency and consider a full training break, both for immediate recovery purposes and for prevention/proactive measures in the future.

When I re-read your post it sounds to me like things have gone really well for you in the past and you've just hit a wall recently. Perhaps a combination of getting some good rest in, dialing things back a bit temporarily, and modifying your training would collectively help you in this regard.

EvgeniZyntx

Isnt the Allpro program focused on gains via 5 week volume increases (followed by weight increases). Might be an option.

SideSteel

Isnt the Allpro program focused on gains via 5 week volume increases (followed by weight increases). Might be an option.

Yes. The standard all pros program then increases load by 10%, which is likely to be quite a bit in intermediate/advanced trainees.

jofjltncb6

In...

...because this thread is relevant to my interests.

sijomial

Thanks for your feedback - will do some research on BFR/occlusion. (And Allpro.)

I tend to work on fairly high volume already but as a slow gainer / fast loser I'm always wary of deloads (I readily confess that I don't actually take enough breaks or deloads!).

Most injuries are from a long time ago (1978 shoulder, 1980's one of my knees, 1991 other knee....) but have resulted in some permanent restriction.

One of the joys of lifting is seeing the progression so it's frustrating when you stall.

SideSteel

I'd really look at rest and general program changes before looking into occlusion/bfr training. While I don't have personal experience with occlusion training, it would seem like a viable option in specific cases where an injury prevents you from using heavier loads. In theory you can build up a great deal of metabolic stress without using heavy loads so you're minimizing joint stress. I certainly wouldn't do this exclusively but it could be a viable addition at some point.

I think the rest/deload/programming changes would likely be the way to start.

Don't be afraid to deload or even take a training break. I really think this may help you in your specific case.

Something like a full training break followed by a gradual ramp up of volume.

sijomial

Will heed your advice about rest. One of the problems folowing a custom approach like I do is that although I structure my workouts I don't really have an overall program structure.

SideSteel

Will heed your advice about rest. One of the problems folowing a custom approach like I do is that although I structure my workouts I don't really have an overall program structure.

Once you're well rested, get something structured. This probably is a contributing factor in your strength gains stalling. I'm sure your injuries are quite limiting but if taking proper rest and deloading solves this you will still need to get the programming dialed in to make further strength gains.

You've probably reached a level of strength where a more calculated periodization model is needed.

n3ver3nder

Have you ever seen a competent sports physio for your injuries? One of the guys on my PL team has had a long term shoulder injury that stopped his bench progress and prevented any overhead work at all. Nagged at him to see a physio for months, and when he did 30 mins massage and trigger point work on the delt to break down scar tissue has restored range of motion and sorted the pain. I had a similiar experience with my pec/shoulder - all related to scar tissue and fascia -one session and it was 90% fixed and back onto making progress after a year of being stuck in a rut.

Worth looking into, if you haven't yet, because there are lots of very treatable injuries that don't get looked into because the hands on approach of a decent sports physio isn't used often enough.

With regards to the original question, another option might be escalating density training. Keep the volume and weight the same over a few sessions but try to do it in less time.

MrGonzo05

Will heed your advice about rest. One of the problems folowing a custom approach like I do is that although I structure my workouts I don't really have an overall program structure.

A custom approach can work, but you really have to work on getting it right. My approach has been to follow someone else's program, and make adjustments only after significant consideration.

sijomial

Have you ever seen a competent sports physio for your injuries? One of the guys on my PL team has had a long term shoulder injury that stopped his bench progress and prevented any overhead work at all. Nagged at him to see a physio for months, and when he did 30 mins massage and trigger point work on the delt to break down scar tissue has restored range of motion and sorted the pain. I had a similiar experience with my pec/shoulder - all related to scar tissue and fascia -one session and it was 90% fixed and back onto making progress after a year of being stuck in a rut.

Worth looking into, if you haven't yet, because there are lots of very treatable injuries that don't get looked into because the hands on approach of a decent sports physio isn't used often enough.

With regards to the original question, another option might be escalating density training. Keep the volume and weight the same over a few sessions but try to do it in less time.

Unfortunately they are mostly permanent and irreversible injuries (ruptured PCL, lost a complete meniscus, lumbar discs a fraction of their normal height).
Luckily I've found a good team of Sports Physio, Osteopath and a Sports Masseuse that help me manage things quite well.

Escalating density is interesting, I've been mostly working in a high tempo, full body, circuit training style but think that's taken me as far as it's going to.

sijomial

Will heed your advice about rest. One of the problems folowing a custom approach like I do is that although I structure my workouts I don't really have an overall program structure.

A custom approach can work, but you really have to work on getting it right. My approach has been to follow someone else's program, and make adjustments only after significant consideration.

Agree - my problem with most programs is that they are built around exercises I can't do so I have to substitute. Those substitutes are rarely perfect matches.