Training Tips or my first 50 Miler
vmclach
Posts: 670 Member
What are some pieces of advice you would give to someone for their first 50? In the past 12 months, I've ran 6 marathons. That's the extent of my training. This is a trail 50 miler. I have ran 3 trail races in my life- the furthest being a 25k. It's definately a different type of running, no doubt. The furthest I've ran in a trail is the 25k. It took me just under 2.5 hours. I've also ran 2 trail 1/2s..
Should I start transitioning to my long runs 100% in trails. I really
Enjoy running marathons, so I had a thought that i'll just run 4ish marathons in preperation for this (trail & road). I hate following training plans to a T. I generally run 50-70 miles per week.
Anything you wish you knew before you tried your first 50 miler or even any ultra!
-- it's September 13th 2014!
Should I start transitioning to my long runs 100% in trails. I really
Enjoy running marathons, so I had a thought that i'll just run 4ish marathons in preperation for this (trail & road). I hate following training plans to a T. I generally run 50-70 miles per week.
Anything you wish you knew before you tried your first 50 miler or even any ultra!
-- it's September 13th 2014!
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Replies
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Yep - transition long runs to terrain similar to the trails for your 50 miler.
Also, eating. You know what crazy crap they offer at aid stations at ultras, right? Find out what it feels like to run after scarfing down a half dozen oreos and chasing it with a coca cola.0 -
Slow down!
Seriously, though, I'm not an expert but I would imagine you'd want to spend some time eating while running to get used to that and also spend as much time as you can on similar terrain.
I know you're looking to be competitive, too, but my new rule after my first ultra is not to pass anyone that's obviously tougher than me. You might just see them again in a few hours.0 -
Yep - transition long runs to terrain similar to the trails for your 50 miler.
Also, eating. You know what crazy crap they offer at aid stations at ultras, right? Find out what it feels like to run after scarfing down a half dozen oreos and chasing it with a coca cola.
Lol pop and candy ?!
sooo you're telling me to big food and just practice eating in the middle of my run?! lol! That's probably going to be hard but I can try :P 0 -
Slow down!
This. You need to start slow and then ease back as you go.0 -
Be ready for ANYTHING. Run in all conditions, rain, sun, all times of day and night, on terrain that matches your race as closely as possible. The more experience you can get on trails (assuming this is a trail 50-miler), the better.0
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-More trails, more trails, more trails! They really do use different kinds of muscles.
-More eating. You will have to eat something (at least gels) during the 50. It's best to figure out what's going to work for you now.
-I don't know what your training looks like, but if you can, I'd try to get a couple pretty heavy back-to-back training runs in on trails if possible. Someone suggested this to me, so I did 31 miles on a Saturday followed by 21 on a Sunday and one other back-to-back that involved 18 and 26, I think. I don't know if it's necessary, but at least it prepared me for the mental/physical fatigue late in the race.
This is exciting stuff! Have fun!!!0 -
My 50K is 4 laps, so I'm just working my way up to 2-3 of 'em and to hell with the last one. And I've conditioned my body to accept junk food under all conditions and will fueling on gummy bears, sports drank, and a bandolier of pretzel rods.0
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Yes, experiment with foods during training just like for a marathon. At my race Saturday there were oreos, chips, pretzels, potatoes and salt, m&ms, gu, soda, etc. Heck there was even tequila at the next to last one lol. Hills...unless its a flat course, running hills will greatly help. Be prepared to run slow, like others have said. It would be nice if we could all run the same road pace on the trail but that just doesn't happen. Be patient...50 miles is a long way and a lot can happen in 8-12 hours...or however long it takes most people.0
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Lol pop and candy ?! sooo you're telling me to big food and just practice eating in the middle of my run?! lol! That's probably going to be hard but I can try :P
No, you don't have to eat that stuff if you don't want to. If you can tolerate gels for 8+ hours then have at it. I wish I could because gels are an easy, consistent way to get in calories but my stomach starts to rebel after awhile. I can't drink soda early usually but later in the race it's awesome. I call it jet fuel. Sugar and caffeine in liquid form that goes straight into your blood stream? Yes, please. PB&J and boiled potatoes are pretty common at most aid stations and those are my go to foods.
At the end of the day you have to figure out what works for you. And then be prepared to throw all that out the window on race day and problem solve on your feet because that can happen too.0 -
In for comments.0
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Lol pop and candy ?! sooo you're telling me to big food and just practice eating in the middle of my run?! lol! That's probably going to be hard but I can try :P
No, you don't have to eat that stuff if you don't want to. If you can tolerate gels for 8+ hours then have at it. I wish I could because gels are an easy, consistent way to get in calories but my stomach starts to rebel after awhile. I can't drink soda early usually but later in the race it's awesome. I call it jet fuel. Sugar and caffeine in liquid form that goes straight into your blood stream? Yes, please. PB&J and boiled potatoes are pretty common at most aid stations and those are my go to foods.
I try to limit my soda early on as well. Not because it adversely effects my race, but because the caffeine isn't so great later on. I always have trouble sleeping the night after an ultra, and I think the caffeine can make it much worse.
There are only three things so far that I've found I can't eat. Gels (and I knew that - I have an aversion. Funny story)..... then it's PB&Js on cheapass bread and the boiled potatoes!
But it's ALL going to be out there and who knows WHAT you're going to shove in your face at mile 44?0 -
Transition your long runs to trails. If not every week, then every other week. If that's not possible you can point to Zach Miller (who has won his only two 50s and trained on a treadmill and in the stairwell of a cruise ship) and say "he did it, so can I!" Just kidding though; specificity is your friend.
Figure out what works with your stomach. I did a 50k unsupported training run before my 50, but you have plenty of time. Try to find a "fat *kitten*" 50k. I agree that pb&j is good, but for me it's pb and honey. I make my own honey ginger gel, too. I don't like most processed gels and ginger is soothing for the stomach. I tried many different things on training runs. Ginger honey, cliff chocolate mint bars...for me later in the race caffeine is great- too early and you'll crash.
Read Relentless Forward Progress. In fact, pm me your address and I will mail you a copy. It's that good.
You're going to be great!0 -
I've not run a 50 miler but I can tell you what I wish I knew coming into a technically tough trail 50k. I wish I trained more on trails or something similar. You've got a few trail races under your belt so you know it's a different beast.
Oh, and for a 50 miler, I can imagine you're going to need more substantial food. Maybe I'm wrong - maybe people can survive solely on gels and such? But find out what works for your stomach.
With your current training and maniacal marathon racing, I'm sure you're going to rock it out - hell, probably even place and/or win! LOL!0 -
Oh, and for a 50 miler, I can imagine you're going to need more substantial food. Maybe I'm wrong - maybe people can survive solely on gels and such? But find out what works for your stomach.
Maybe we're all wrong! There's this product called Tailwind that everyone is drinking and supposedly it's like all people need. They just drink tailwind and that is it. It sounds both too good to be true but at the same time? But IMO the Oreo binge is half the fun.0 -
I don't like Tailwind but I know people who swear by the stuff. It tastes like battery acid to me and is revolting.
My biggest problem is that I stop taking in calories because after a while nothing is appealing at all which leads to a whole different set of problems. And this continues post race too. I could hardly eat anything for two days after my last 50 miler. Things weren't so complicated when I first started doing ultras but the more I do them the weirder my stomach gets.0 -
I don't like Tailwind but I know people who swear by the stuff. It tastes like battery acid to me and is revolting.
I don't like tailwind either- to me it tastes like drinking seawater. I think you are the first person that hasn't raved about it, and I was beginning to think i was missing something!0 -
My biggest problem is that I stop taking in calories because after a while nothing is appealing at all which leads to a whole different set of problems. And this continues post race too. I could hardly eat anything for two days after my last 50 miler. Things weren't so complicated when I first started doing ultras but the more I do them the weirder my stomach gets.
I am afraid this is what will happen to me
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Read Relentless Forward Progress. In fact, pm me your address and I will mail you a copy. It's that good.
You're going to be great!
I already read it! See what I posted on your wall Missy! lol0 -
Read Relentless Forward Progress. In fact, pm me your address and I will mail you a copy. It's that good.
You're going to be great!
I already read it! See what I posted on your wall Missy! lol
How did I miss that?!?0 -
I cannot wait to start training for these longer distances. So I am in for the comments too.
Should I just reach out to Dunkin Donuts team now and get their support "This body runs on Dunkin". Perhaps I can market a Dunkin Donuts running belt where you can secure munchkins to it. (picturing some sort of velcro like running belt) Aside from being chased by wild birds, this may be a good solution.0 -
Ditto. Icky.I don't like Tailwind but I know people who swear by the stuff. It tastes like battery acid to me and is revolting.
I don't like tailwind either- to me it tastes like drinking seawater. I think you are the first person that hasn't raved about it, and I was beginning to think i was missing something!
I am in the real food and Coke (preferably the cane sugar type) later in the race camp. Unless it's hot, in which case I don't want to eat anything and I get really cranky and end up with a *kitten* show at the end. Yeah, that's never happened :-p
Things on my list for those long (5+ hour) training runs: learn to wear some sort of hydration system (if you haven't already--this can be a pack, waist belt, or double bottle hand carry), carry TP/kleenex (emergency visits to trees, bloody nose, etc.), LIP BALM!! (can double as sunscreen for the face), learn about and experiment with electrolyte replacement (Nuun, Endurolyte, Salt Stick, etc., etc.--you might not need it, but then again you might), and carry at least one large band-aid (like the big knee scrape kind). Serious on all of these. And if you are one that is prone to stomach distress, carry Immodium, too. Because I am old and have a giant plate in my back, I also carry Vicodin.0 -
Ditto. Icky.I don't like Tailwind but I know people who swear by the stuff. It tastes like battery acid to me and is revolting.
I don't like tailwind either- to me it tastes like drinking seawater. I think you are the first person that hasn't raved about it, and I was beginning to think i was missing something!
I am in the real food and Coke (preferably the cane sugar type) later in the race camp. Unless it's hot, in which case I don't want to eat anything and I get really cranky and end up with a *kitten* show at the end. Yeah, that's never happened :-p
Things on my list for those long (5+ hour) training runs: learn to wear some sort of hydration system (if you haven't already--this can be a pack, waist belt, or double bottle hand carry), carry TP/kleenex (emergency visits to trees, bloody nose, etc.), LIP BALM!! (can double as sunscreen for the face), learn about and experiment with electrolyte replacement (Nuun, Endurolyte, Salt Stick, etc., etc.--you might not need it, but then again you might), and carry at least one large band-aid (like the big knee scrape kind). Serious on all of these. And if you are one that is prone to stomach distress, carry Immodium, too. Because I am old and have a giant plate in my back, I also carry Vicodin.
^^^^ These are GREAT tips! I also carry iodine.0 -
I haven't tried the Tailwind yet. My neighbor - who never eats enough - is going to get some and I'll steal some of his. I'm not optimistic. If it tasted better than coke they'd be putting it in vending machines. I wish they sold some small trial packets, but apparently, they don't.0
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Not to threadjack as this is related to training long distance, but is there a need to consume protein on very long runs? I'm aware of recovery drinks that contain protein in the proper ratio, but I'm wondering if you can just survive on carbs for 12 hours, or at some point is it advisable to ingest protein or fat? I'm not really asking about personal preference, rather, have there been studies showing the efficacy of ingesting lipids or proteins at some point in an endurance event? Just curious. I still have time to be curious and not locked into anything! 0
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For my first 50 miler, I didn't train. I signed up 6 days before, and had done only one ultra/marathon/trail race 2 mths before.(after running for only 2 yrs and only having done a few sucky half marathons)
so, um, there's that
when I trained for my first ultra/marathon (the one 2 mths before my first 50), I trained in a road marathon training group, and added a 2nd long run on trails. I hadn't run a road marathon (still haven't!) but it was a good place for newbies.
So, I did variations of that training for subsequent 50 milers, with one longer run on the road on Saturday, and a second long run on Sunday on trails.
Since November though, I've been doing both weekend long runs on trails, and hill work once per week on trails. I much prefer it, but the increase in intensity the last few month has been exhausting. I'm just now starting to feel "normal" again.
I do like to do a 50k race 3-5wks out from the goal 50 miler, and usually that's my peak training mileage.
I kind of blow off eating much in races 50k and shorter: if I'm hungry, I'll eat something, if not...meh. I do monitor electrolyte intake though because it's damn hot in Texas. During 50 milers, tho, I eat at every aid station right from the start.
I have an aid station system that goes something like this: trot into AS w/ lid off of cup and electrolyte mix in hand, pass to volunteer. take pills (salt..its hot here) with coke, shove pb&j in mouth, put an orange slice in mouth, grab filled bottle and a handful of pringles, leave. sometimes if there is something that looks good I'll eat it, but usually nothing looks good. ha ha. If the AS are 6 miles apart (less if terrain is difficult) I'll eat an energy gel between them.
during the latter miles of the race, I often don't want to eat ANYTHING so I'm usually glad to have eaten a bit when I could.
Every person is so different, and ultra marathon training is so individual and much different I think than for shorter races. there are people who do well in ultras on 40-50 miles per week, and others who feel they need 80ish to do well. make sure you take care to rest, and take care of anything that doesn't feel 100%0 -
Not to threadjack as this is related to training long distance, but is there a need to consume protein on very long runs? I'm aware of recovery drinks that contain protein in the proper ratio, but I'm wondering if you can just survive on carbs for 12 hours, or at some point is it advisable to ingest protein or fat? I'm not really asking about personal preference, rather, have there been studies showing the efficacy of ingesting lipids or proteins at some point in an endurance event? Just curious. I still have time to be curious and not locked into anything!
I'm envisioning you running w/ a bottle of maple syrup...ha ha ha. hardcore.0 -
Good stuff here: http://www.irunfar.com/2011/03/race-nutrition.html0
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Not to threadjack as this is related to training long distance, but is there a need to consume protein on very long runs? I'm aware of recovery drinks that contain protein in the proper ratio, but I'm wondering if you can just survive on carbs for 12 hours, or at some point is it advisable to ingest protein or fat? I'm not really asking about personal preference, rather, have there been studies showing the efficacy of ingesting lipids or proteins at some point in an endurance event? Just curious. I still have time to be curious and not locked into anything!
I'm envisioning you running w/ a bottle of maple syrup...ha ha ha. hardcore.
Yuck! I'm getting old, but I'm not that old school.
)
And thanks for your take in the previous post. It's helpful to know that you can just listen to your body and it's needs. 0 -
Good stuff here: http://www.irunfar.com/2011/03/race-nutrition.html
Bookmarked! That was a very helpful read. Thank you for posting. 0 -
Not to threadjack as this is related to training long distance, but is there a need to consume protein on very long runs? I'm aware of recovery drinks that contain protein in the proper ratio, but I'm wondering if you can just survive on carbs for 12 hours, or at some point is it advisable to ingest protein or fat? I'm not really asking about personal preference, rather, have there been studies showing the efficacy of ingesting lipids or proteins at some point in an endurance event? Just curious. I still have time to be curious and not locked into anything!
So, two answers to two questions - you asked about studies. Where exactly are those going to come from? In the United States, the US government doesn't fund research into the performance of healthy people. The NIH just wants to study sick people. A lot of the research that exists is somewhat buried..... because it's done by companies that want to sell you a performance product. Are they doing real science there? Or are they trying to sell you some pseudoscience? Who the hell knows? A lot of the information on the science of endurance sports has been done on cyclists. Good luck with that.
Another issue? When a study IS done on, say, performance and nutrition..... the results will tell you what worked well ON AVERAGE, for most people. The more "average" you are, the more likely your experience will match the results of any study. It's a good place to start..... but you'd still need to rely on your personal experience more than anything. You may not be "average".
But if you like studies, here's a good blog for you to read: http://www.sportsscientists.com/
Okay - other question about protein? I'm not aware of much regarding studies. But anecdotes? A lot of people claim that early in a race, it's a good idea to try to take in something other than pure sugar. It takes longer to digest, so you'll still be getting some calories out of it when you no longer want to eat later in the race.0
