No One Method
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I never wanted a debate, or to add "content" ( sorry -I'm not sure what you mean by that) I truely get tired and concerned for people when we're told all the time that as long as you eat at a deficit it doesn't matter what you eat. Because it does matter to your health in the long run. This attitude is what has help a lot of us that yoyo- lose and then get bigger, lose again and then get even bigger. So when you said "the calories are what matter" and " any way you get there will shed weight " it rubbed me the wrong way. After reading your last few post- I went back and reread the original. I still read it the same way. It just seemed very condescending. I'm sorry if I ruffled your feathers, but I felt like you was one of those guys you're describing above. I understand there could have been a misconception of what you intended to say. And I never debated that you're not correct, I said that you was from the beginning. But its statements like that from a Dr. that cost my friend her life. That's what he said to her " its a simple formula, you just have to want it bad enough, it doesn't matter what you eat. Its just calories in / calories out. "I get it Awesome Guy, I really do. I think just a part of it hit a raw nerve for someone and they wanted to give an alternate point of view.
I understand. My OP was directed to you and you got it. I'm not those guys on the forum telling people that calories are all that matter and getting sad if someone doesn't eat pizza or ice cream. I am also offended by these people.
We are all wanting to do it the healthy way this time. Its up to each one of us to decide what our own definition of healthy is. What's healthy for one could be deadly for another. That's why there's no one method. I hope there are no hard feeling between us. I'm looking forward to getting to know you. Who knows we might disagree again, but that's ok, its how we learn. And lord knows I've got a lot to learn. I truely wish you the healthiest, safest, and very successful journey. Blessings :flowerforyou:
There is no disagreement. ..and wasn't one. There's no debate. (Unless you think calories don't matter)
When you say : "Its up to each one of us to decide what our own definition of healthy is. What's healthy for one could be deadly for another. That's why there's no one method. ".. I said the same: "any way you get there will shed weight". I'm not here to argue..I only ever state facts unless I say it is my opinion.0 -
Actually this thread is about different methods of losing weight, and I'm loving the debate. No one will argue that calories in versus calories out equals weight loss. What we're exploring is how to limit calories in and how to increase calories out in ways that are sustainable. And there are MANY variables in that equation. (Haha... my autocorrect turned equation into aggravation. .. how appropriate. )
I think people are looking for a debate where there isn't one. If I were to explain weight loss in detail then I'd pretty much have a book on my hands to ensure no one throws a make-believe debate into the mix.
I assume people are not retarded, so I took no time to explain nutrition and how eating only cupcakes would kill you.
I was also mildly offended by your first post, especially the link, and I am very offended by this one, but perhaps I am either "retarded" or weakened and confused by my cupcake diet.
If you read and understood my post, the debate is not about the equation of calories in versus calories out. What I said was the debate is how best to GET to the deficit in a way that is sustainable. The whole point of all of these fad diets and crazy weightloss products and exercise techniques is to make getting that deficit easier. If creating the deficit were as simple as just doing the math, none of us would be obese.
And for me, even the simple equation hasn't been easy. As a 400+ pound hypothyroid menopausal woman on prednisone who swims laps and does water aerobics or zumba almost every day, trying to determine my calorie count for sustainable weight loss has been difficult--and I'm working with a nutritionist! We've tweaked it from 1800 down to 1300, regardless of exercise, and this seems to be something I can live with. Less than that, my body shuts off; more than that, I don't lose.
In my opinion, the more complex part of the debate is how best to decide what calories go in and how calories are burned out. For some people, sugar and carbs are triggers for binge eating. For some people, eating a big breakfast triggers hunger cravings that last all day; for others, the opposite. For some, fat keeps them sated and protein doesn't. For others, fruit is the key. So, even if we take junk food off the table, choosing what healthy food to eat can be debated (i.e. pros and cons considered). Calories in is also influenced by eating disorders (or disordered eating). I watched my sister almost die from bulimia. I've been a binge eater for decades. We both used food, especially sugar, to medicate ourselves through trauma. Would you really say to someone who stuffed herself from age six on because she was f*cked repeatedly by the son of a family friend and had no counseling or family support , "Hey, just hit the gym and count your calories! That's all it takes!" Really? Sorry to be so graphic, but that's my reality, and I'm guessing in this forum there are a lot of variations of my story.
Same with exercise. We can debate what works best for SUSTAINABILITY. If I go to the gym and lift weights, my joints are so inflamed the next day I have to freebase vicodin. Everyone in here has different physical needs and limitations. If I could just go lift weights as suggested by the guy in your link, I would. I used to love to lift weights.
We're trying to create a forum that is a safe place, which has to mean plenty of room for varying opinions and debates and, I hope, being gentle with each other. We are the "Morbidly" Obese. There are a lot of wounded people in here, myself included, again, my opinion, who are going on a journey that is going to take more than just will power, and who aren't just going to lose weight but are going to transform themselves into amazing men and women who have taken back their power and their health. I'm guessing anyone who isn't on the transformation train yet ought to board.0 -
Actually this thread is about different methods of losing weight, and I'm loving the debate. No one will argue that calories in versus calories out equals weight loss. What we're exploring is how to limit calories in and how to increase calories out in ways that are sustainable. And there are MANY variables in that equation. (Haha... my autocorrect turned equation into aggravation. .. how appropriate. )
I think people are looking for a debate where there isn't one. If I were to explain weight loss in detail then I'd pretty much have a book on my hands to ensure no one throws a make-believe debate into the mix.
I assume people are not retarded, so I took no time to explain nutrition and how eating only cupcakes would kill you.
I was also mildly offended by your first post, especially the link, and I am very offended by this one, but perhaps I am either "retarded" or weakened and confused by my cupcake diet.
If you read and understood my post, the debate is not about the equation of calories in versus calories out. What I said was the debate is how best to GET to the deficit in a way that is sustainable. The whole point of all of these fad diets and crazy weightloss products and exercise techniques is to make getting that deficit easier. If creating the deficit were as simple as just doing the math, none of us would be obese.
And for me, even the simple equation hasn't been easy. As a 400+ pound hypothyroid menopausal woman on prednisone who swims laps and does water aerobics or zumba almost every day, trying to determine my calorie count for sustainable weight loss has been difficult--and I'm working with a nutritionist! We've tweaked it from 1800 down to 1300, regardless of exercise, and this seems to be something I can live with. Less than that, my body shuts off; more than that, I don't lose.
In my opinion, the more complex part of the debate is how best to decide what calories go in and how calories are burned out. For some people, sugar and carbs are triggers for binge eating. For some people, eating a big breakfast triggers hunger cravings that last all day; for others, the opposite. For some, fat keeps them sated and protein doesn't. For others, fruit is the key. So, even if we take junk food off the table, choosing what healthy food to eat can be debated (i.e. pros and cons considered). Calories in is also influenced by eating disorders (or disordered eating). I watched my sister almost die from bulimia. I've been a binge eater for decades. We both used food, especially sugar, to medicate ourselves through trauma. Would you really say to someone who stuffed herself from age six on because she was f*cked repeatedly by the son of a family friend and had no counseling or family support , "Hey, just hit the gym and count your calories! That's all it takes!" Really? Sorry to be so graphic, but that's my reality, and I'm guessing in this forum there are a lot of variations of my story.
Same with exercise. We can debate what works best for SUSTAINABILITY. If I go to the gym and lift weights, my joints are so inflamed the next day I have to freebase vicodin. Everyone in here has different physical needs and limitations. If I could just go lift weights as suggested by the guy in your link, I would. I used to love to lift weights.
We're trying to create a forum that is a safe place, which has to mean plenty of room for varying opinions and debates and, I hope, being gentle with each other. We are the "Morbidly" Obese. There are a lot of wounded people in here, myself included, again, my opinion, who are going on a journey that is going to take more than just will power, and who aren't just going to lose weight but are going to transform themselves into amazing men and women who have taken back their power and their health. I'm guessing anyone who isn't on the transformation train yet ought to board.
My original post was a response to Julie and her post about fad diets.
Here is what Julie got from my post:It wasn't so much the calories in/calories out that I got from it, for me it is more about the fact that there are tons of weight loss methods out there that exist mainly to part us from our money when actually we don't need them. Do some of them work? Yes they do but most of them only because they still follow that basic principle, calories in/calories out. In fact if you look at the small print on the commercials every one of them say it works as part of a calorie controlled diet, so why not just control the calories without the weight loss aid?
My original post was to the topic starter, aka Julie..and not really anyone else. She understood my point clearly.
I read your post and I know exactly what you meant. You are inferring that I'm telling people that the only thing to worry about is calories. I never made that claim, so this is a strawman fallacy.. and not a debate.0 -
:laugh: Ok, my cousin just called with a "great" one! She just started a only one thing a day diet. Yup, only eat one thing, as much as you want, as long as you just pick one item. She said the body only could absorb so many calories from one source. She picked "Snickers Bars" for today. I just laughed and told her "NO, just no!!!! " I've begged her to join this site, no go!
I just don't understand how people still fall for this kind of hupla! Everyones looking for the magic key that lets them have their cake and eat it to. What blows the mind is we have it - moderation! I tried to tell her if she ate small sensible meals all day she could have a snickers bar. But nope, she just keep telling me that would defeat the diet. She would be taking in all different kinds of calories from all different sources - therefor weight gain. :noway:0 -
Oh good grief!0
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Julie, your post makes me so sad. If your parents weren't trying to control your diet so much, maybe you would have come up with some of your own tools to manage it. Blarg.. Hate reading stuff like. I hope to never be that way with my daughter. It is one of my biggest fears, pushing all my weight/diet issues on her.
Of course, I have tried every single FAD out there! I even juiced for 30 days! My Mom put me on good Ole Jenny Craig at 15. But I can't regret that at all. Probably one of the best things we ever did. If only it would've ended there. *sigh*
Anyhow, totally agree with Calories in/out..but also do not agree with a calorie is a calorie for the reasons already stated. I know that if I have a chip or even a piece of bread, I will be craving that crap for a day and half. Yet, if I stick to protein and veggies, I am pretty much not hungry. Who knows what is going on in this old noggin' but it is some chemical reaction that when sugar (in the forms of cheap processed carbs) hits it, I lose all control. Well, even pasta. Oh my, I do love pasta. Anyhow, I know sure, I can have a half a cup of pasta and 3oz of chicken and blah blah blah... and sit there the rest of the damn night miserable because I cannot stop thinking about Pasta, chips, french fries..my daughter's goldfish..OR, I can have 6oz of chicken, no pasta and save myself the torment. So, yes, to me a calorie is not a calorie. For those who it can be just a calories. AWESOME. Yay for you! Have a cookie!0 -
Now we might be on to something here. I hear you with the once you get started you can't stop thing because that has happened to me with carb/sugar/fat foods all the time.
So is there something about these foods, or something in these foods that sets us off? Interesting.0 -
Anyhow, totally agree with Calories in/out..but also do not agree with a calorie is a calorie for the reasons already stated. I know that if I have a chip or even a piece of bread, I will be craving that crap for a day and half. Yet, if I stick to protein and veggies, I am pretty much not hungry. Who knows what is going on in this old noggin' but it is some chemical reaction that when sugar (in the forms of cheap processed carbs) hits it, I lose all control. Well, even pasta. Oh my, I do love pasta. Anyhow, I know sure, I can have a half a cup of pasta and 3oz of chicken and blah blah blah... and sit there the rest of the damn night miserable because I cannot stop thinking about Pasta, chips, french fries..my daughter's goldfish..OR, I can have 6oz of chicken, no pasta and save myself the torment. So, yes, to me a calorie is not a calorie. For those who it can be just a calories. AWESOME. Yay for you! Have a cookie!
That describes me to a T. So yes, please, everyone who can tolerate them, have a cookie for me too.0 -
Now we might be on to something here. I hear you with the once you get started you can't stop thing because that has happened to me with carb/sugar/fat foods all the time.
So is there something about these foods, or something in these foods that sets us off? Interesting.
Julie, many foods are now ENGINEERED to be addictive. I think you'd love this article from New York Times magazine called The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food. It explains so much!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html?_r=0
Oh, and yes... there is something about these foods. The high levels of sugar, fat, and sodium trigger the limbic system in the brain to pump out extra dopamine.0 -
Yes, I think it is obviously like you posted... the extra additives and stuff. Plus, I think some people just have some chemical imbalance to begin with that makes them sensitive to the high/lows. Like you said, dopamine. I just can't get enough dope!!0
