Do knees ever....get better, with C25K?

PippaJo_

I went through the last year's worth of posts, and saw very little related to knees.

Some background: I'm a beginning runner, don't have an app (yet - thrilled to see the app review sticky post, which I will check out thoroughly), I was just sort of 'creating my own' program. I'm 5'1", just turned 40, about 135 lbs, so not terribly overweight. I DO have new shoes, some Asics Gel-Kahanas, which I swear are the most comfy running shoes I've ever owned.

So, last fall, I decided to run, even though I've never been able to do it before. (I suck at it, even when I tried to take a focused running class in high school - failed miserably, gave up until now.)

I started by walking about 3 miles on my uni's asphalt track. Did that for a few weeks, thought I'd start running, then it got cold and snowy, and I called it quits for pretty much the whole miserable winter. :-/

A couple of months ago, the bitter cold subsided and the snow melted, so I started up again. I began by walking most of it, just slow-jogging one end of the track on every loop. Did that for a couple of weeks. (Wanted to get out daily, managed to get out 3/4 days a week.) Then I started jogging both ends of the track, walking the straights. This seemed to go pretty well, so after maybe two weeks of that, I got the wild hair to warm up with 1/4 mile walk, jog 2 loops, walk a loop, jog 2 more loops, walk a loop, jog 4 loops, then walk the remaining 1/4 mile as a cool-down. (I simply jogged as far/for as long as I thought I could.)

That went well, better than I expected. So the next day, I did it again. Had to walk for a bit during that last mile, but overall, it still went well.

But after that, over the next couple of days, I realized that my knees were *really* hurting. Not like - 'I broke something' hurting - I couldn't call it 'pain' in that sense, but more like - they just felt pounded into 'please don't beat me any more' territory. (My metatarsals were also quite sore - felt like I'd lost the 'fat pad' under my midfoot. This seemed especially strange, since I'm well-hydrated, and I have *new gel shoes*!)

The knee soreness feels more like 'jumper's knee' rather than a typical 'runner's knee' - it feels like it's just exactly where the bones of the upper and lower leg would contact each other - like, the top of the head of the tibia. Patellar tendinitis, maybe?

I did ice my knees both of those days, but I run at lunch, and couldn't ice until after work. I also stretch after running - quad stretch, hamstring stretch, IT 'stretch'.

Anyway. Things were so uncomfortable, for days, that I didn't feel like I could go back out again. And now, a month later, I think I've almost become afraid to give it another try. :-(

The thing is - my cardiovascular was really coming along. I can't believe that it's my knees that are stopping me. (For the record, I jog really slowly - the walk/jog combo, even jogging the total of 2 miles, walking 1, took a total of 50 minutes. It's probably a 15-minute mile, and I'm not *trying* to go 'fast' - I could probably easily hold a conversation with the occasional pause while I run.)

Did I really just ramp up my distance too quickly? Too much, too soon? Was it the two days back-to-back that did me in?

I am probably a heel-striker - should I simply focus on changing my strike?

I also have some knee bands - how much do you think those would help? (I'm weighing cost/benefit of the strap pressure, against the sweat/raw backs of the knees due to the strap.)


Sigh. Sorry to unload like that. I just - I see so much success with this program, and with people just getting out there and *doing something* - and I give it a try, go as slowly as I can, and I feel like I might be putting my knees at risk of permanent damage. :-( I'm not sure how much slower I can go, and still be moving/progressing, you know?


Sheesh. Even just *thinking* about my knees right now is making the patellar tendon area tingle, and I'm not even injured/sore. It's becoming a phobia.

MeanderingMammal

Sounds like it could be one of, or a combination of, several things.

It's not clear just how much you've increased the volume of running by, and how quickly. It's generally advised to avoid increasing my more than 10% per week. That generally applies to total distance but if you've increase the running portion quite a lot then the same issue appears. Notwithstanding that the early couple of weeks in any plan can be quite a lot.

For me, form turned out to be quite important. I always used to heel strike, but I've found that by increasing the frequency of my pace I'm forced to take a shorter stride, and that's causing a better form. It may be that you're over-extending your forward leg too far out in front of the body. That means that as you drag your torso forward then you're putting quite a lot of load on your lower legs, that might be exhibiting in your knees. Increasing my cadence felt very artificial at first but it's now helping me a lot.

It's also not clear how often you're running. Rest days are important, they give your muscles and connective tissues an opportunity to consolidate on the progress that you're making. If you don't take days off then you're continually putting them under stress, but never giving them a chance to recover. Most beginner plans are for alternate days of running and rest/ active rest. Once you're system is more used to running then it's reasonable to add further days in.

I hope that's useful.

likitisplit

Knee pain is never good. Never. It's not something you can just ignore and work through.

It might be your strike.

Old shoes are another common culprit, but you've ruled that out (good for you)

It could be a weak core.

Is there a reason you have knee bands? Do you have a history of injury?

This is something you should see a sports therapist to work through. There are other people on here who have been able to overcome knee issues and successfully run, but you need more than our advice. Once your knees are gone, they are gone and you don't get them back, so be careful.

PippaJo_

Thanks.

See, that's exactly why I'm worried. Whenever I look up 'knee pain running' - I get stuff on 'runner's knee', etc, and it all talks about this kind of thing happening when runners increase mileage too fast, etc - and like one I saw just this morning, was saying 'this usually starts happening when runners start logging over 40 miles a week'.

Um. I'm logging a max of SIX running miles a week. (IF I'm even running at all.) I don't think my knees should be hurting, and just seeing all the other newbie complaints that focus on lack of endurance, or breathing, or muscle soreness - but never mention knees - makes me think that this really, REALLY shouldn't be happening at this stage of the game. (Makes me feel like a freak who will never be able to run, frankly.)


I purchased knee bands a couple of years ago, because I was attempting to do the 30-Day Shred, and Jillian's butt-kicking running-in-place moves were *killing* my knees. Again, it's that impact thing/jumper's knee. I barely even used them, because I just gave up instead.

To my knowledge, I've never 'injured' my knees - nothing that included both of them, or required medical attention. (twisted the right one skiing once, is all.) I used to figure skate, which requires landing on the right leg a lot, but never had knee issues from it. And right now, both knees are equally affected.


I feel like my knees have been abused - except I've never abused them! They act like I've been carrying hundreds of extra pounds for years - but my max non-preg weight was about 150. It's truly crazy, and really discouraging. :-(


I'm sure my core is super-weak - I have a diastasis that's never been measured, but is probably enormous. Actually, now I'm wondering - during pregnancy, I had pubic symphysis dysfunction - where the cartilage around the pubic bones softens and stretches more than it's supposed to, theoretically due to an overabundance of the relaxin hormone. I wonder if it screwed with the cartilage in my knees, too.

Sigh. But thank you for your reply. I think I will see if I can find a sports therapist, and at least get an idea of whether running would be a bad idea for me after all, or whether it can be managed.

likitisplit

Thanks.

See, that's exactly why I'm worried. Whenever I look up 'knee pain running' - I get stuff on 'runner's knee', etc, and it all talks about this kind of thing happening when runners increase mileage too fast, etc - and like one I saw just this morning, was saying 'this usually starts happening when runners start logging over 40 miles a week'.

Um. I'm logging a max of SIX running miles a week. (IF I'm even running at all.) I don't think my knees should be hurting, and just seeing all the other newbie complaints that focus on lack of endurance, or breathing, or muscle soreness - but never mention knees - makes me think that this really, REALLY shouldn't be happening at this stage of the game. (Makes me feel like a freak who will never be able to run, frankly.)


I purchased knee bands a couple of years ago, because I was attempting to do the 30-Day Shred, and Jillian's butt-kicking running-in-place moves were *killing* my knees. Again, it's that impact thing/jumper's knee. I barely even used them, because I just gave up instead.

To my knowledge, I've never 'injured' my knees - nothing that included both of them, or required medical attention. (twisted the right one skiing once, is all.) I used to figure skate, which requires landing on the right leg a lot, but never had knee issues from it. And right now, both knees are equally affected.


I feel like my knees have been abused - except I've never abused them! They act like I've been carrying hundreds of extra pounds for years - but my max non-preg weight was about 150. It's truly crazy, and really discouraging. :-(


I'm sure my core is super-weak - I have a diastasis that's never been measured, but is probably enormous. Actually, now I'm wondering - during pregnancy, I had pubic symphysis dysfunction - where the cartilage around the pubic bones softens and stretches more than it's supposed to, theoretically due to an overabundance of the relaxin hormone. I wonder if it screwed with the cartilage in my knees, too.

Sigh. But thank you for your reply. I think I will see if I can find a sports therapist, and at least get an idea of whether running would be a bad idea for me after all, or whether it can be managed.

You aren't a freak at all. As I mentioned, I've been active on this board for a year and a half - I've seen questions like this before. They don't occur often and there tends not to be a lot of discussion because it's something that nobody should play MFP doctor about. Let us know what your sports therapist says - and let them know that ideally you'd keep running. You want to know what it will take for you to run without injury.