I fell off the paleo wagon
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I've fallen off the wagon so many times it's a wonder every bone in my body is not broken... that I'm not an amorphous blob of protoplasm (if I keep eating the way I have been, I just might turn into that). :frown: My latest venture was to try going vegetarian, for ethical and religious reasons. I've tried before and failed miserably. Maybe it's because I have metabolic syndrome with insulin resistance, gluten intolerance and hypothyroidism? Carbs are not my friend, and a veg. diet is high carb. For those who say it doesn't have to be, then clearly I am doing it wrong. So I have come to the conclusion that it's evidently my lot in life to be carnivorous.
I am not commenting on religious reasons to be vegan, but if your really dig deeper into the ethical arguments of the vegan lifestyle, it's illogical. The first thing to consider is the nutrient cycle. Plants live off of other organic matter, ie they eat us. Plants also have awareness and behaviour. Recent research has established this beyond a doubt. They have complex behaviour in response to predation and also demonstrated in their life strategies. Scientists don't understand why they are aware and can adapt their behaviour according to that awareness, but they do. So, life is life. Humans are extremely limited in their knowledge of what is going on in the natural world and we are further handicapped by our arrogance of thinking we know it all.
The next thing to consider are modern agricultural practices where mono-culture crops are a focus and animals are removed (back to the nutrient cycle). This agriculture is destroying topsoil and also depleting fresh water resources at an alarming rate. The switch to petroleum based fertilizers and pesticides (because there are no dead animals and manure to feed the soil organisms) has had huge impacts on the environment and human health (food is no longer as nutrient rich as it used to be).
I could go on and on, but the ethical argument is just not valid imo. However, I can respect a religious stand-point and there's nothing to argue there. To each their own. The only thing I would point out is that some of our religions are new in comparison to how long our species has existed. I would point out that there is no ancestral human society known (yet) that has survived to the present day on a vegan diet. The only reason I would mention that is because it is my opinion that a vegan diet is terrible for human health (my opinion is based on my own experience and researching the experience of other former vegans-one example: Lierre Keith).
So my entire point was this: there are two reasons most vegans give for being vegan: Health and Ethics and imo both fall apart under logical scrutiny.0 -
I am not commenting on religious reasons to be vegan, but if your really dig deeper into the ethical arguments of the vegan lifestyle, it's illogical. ...
... So my entire point was this: there are two reasons most vegans give for being vegan: Health and Ethics and imo both fall apart under logical scrutiny.
Good post, and indeed logical.
I don't disagree with you, because I've come to realize this in thinking about it. The religious reasons are based on those alleged ethical reasons, nothing more. I've always been a proponent of paleo/primal because I believe it's how we evolved... anthropology, archaeology, biology and logic bear it out. 0 -
I am not commenting on religious reasons to be vegan, but if your really dig deeper into the ethical arguments of the vegan lifestyle, it's illogical. ...
... So my entire point was this: there are two reasons most vegans give for being vegan: Health and Ethics and imo both fall apart under logical scrutiny.
Good post, and indeed logical. I don't disagree with you, because I've come to realize this in thinking about it. The religious reasons are based on those alleged ethical reasons, nothing more. I've always been a proponent of paleo/primal because I believe it's how we evolved... anthropology, archaeology, biology and logic bear it out.
Yeah, I wish I could share my ethical argument in vegan thread topics in the general forums (not in vegan forums, I respect their rights and stay out) such as the ones titled: "I've gone vegan and so should you" or "Going vegan for health/ethical reasons". But I get reported big time and the moderators get right after me. I've asked them what site rules I violated but they never give me that answer. Of course I stopped commenting on vegan topics within my first year here.... lol
It's not so much that I care if they are vegan (I do care for their children!), but the fallacy of the ethical argument drives me a bit crazy. The idea that we can value certain lives over others and judge what life is sentient or not... GAH! All life is sentient... AND.... we must consume life to live! Just the way it is on planet Earth.
Now that I've taken the thread completely off topic...... :frown:0 -
Well, if it digressed, I'm mostly to blame.
In all seriousness, I don't think it's really straying too far, because removing the ethical component, about which I see your point, and have had it in the back of my mind, we're still left with the fact that it's primarily a moderate to high carb diet, hardly paleo. 0 -
Hell!!! So a friend took us out for a Sunday lunch and I ate a Yorkshire pudding - result was me driving around Newcastle at 3 in the morning looking for a garage that sold indigestion tablets- again I'm soooo annoyed at myself!!! Silly silly silly!!
Straight back on though (thank god)0
