Stopping bioidenticals- bear with me
Sabine_Stroehm
Posts: 19,263 Member
Okay, if you've been here a while, you know I've been using bioidentical progesterone for about 4 years, and bioidentical estriol for about a year. Many of my symptoms are gone. I'd say the primary ones that remain are the occasional very light migraine, and intermittent insomnia, and creeping weight gain. Previously I had dizziness, hot flashes with nausea, night sweats, tender breasts, moodiness...So I've gotten some relief.
Well, on this journey I'm now, oddly, wanting to know what my body actually feels like. This may sound strange, but I want to know where I'm at. I want to feel what I should be feeling. And, I want to see how the bloating/5LBS do without the progesterone.
About a month ago I started tapering my dose down (Learning from the CRASH I experienced when my mirena was removed years ago...slower is better). I had added more as my doc suggested, but I didn't like how I felt, so I started tapering back to where I had been. Sometime in that process I guess I started toying with tapering OFF altogether. So I kept lowering my dose, every few days. This past Sunday I told hubs I was going to try tapering off and seeing how I felt (he's all for it). Sunday was my first day completely off of progesterone/estriol. (I figured if hubs didn't know I was at my worst, lol, maybe he wouldnt notice it
, like PMS once they know you're PMSing, they notice it more. ) I'll tell him in a week or two that I did stop.
So, anyway. Saturday was the last small does. Sunday I started being without any.
What have I noticed: For the last two weeks while tapering I've been a bit weepy. Not bad, just "hallmark commercial weepy".
My period arrived, very very early, and very black this morning, suggesting most of the progesterone is now out of my system. No PMS. Some cramping.
Otherwise... I've dropped a pound or so (with a period, no less). My ring is looser.
I'll see if my dang boobs finally get smaller again lol.
But, I'll be curious to see how I feel in the coming months. I plan to stick with my slow carb (not low carb) eating: nutrient dense vegetables, lean proteins, low fat fairy, nuts, seeds, fruit, and a few grains. I plan to keep taking evening primrose, magnesium, calcium and D, and my menopause daily vitamin. I plan to keep running, lifting, and going to pilates. I plan to keep enjoying wine in the evenings as long as it doesn't make my symptoms worse (which it never has, luckily for everyone lol).
I plan to UP my intake of phytos, and plan to DECREASE my consumption of meat and see how it all feels.
Yes, this thread is a total 180 from the one I started a while back where I was going to UP my dose to what the doc wanted. But hey, trying that got me to here. More was NOT better, so I'm figuring lets try less, maybe it means something that more felt wrong.
Anyway, thanks for bearing with me. My first peri-menopause symptoms began in 2007 (dizziness), and got challenging in about 2010 (hot flashes and general "hotness"), so perhaps (hopefully) I'm nearing the end of my journey. Who knows. But it seems to me that removing the externally produced hormones is the one way to know where I'm at in this process.
cheers!:drinker:
Well, on this journey I'm now, oddly, wanting to know what my body actually feels like. This may sound strange, but I want to know where I'm at. I want to feel what I should be feeling. And, I want to see how the bloating/5LBS do without the progesterone.
About a month ago I started tapering my dose down (Learning from the CRASH I experienced when my mirena was removed years ago...slower is better). I had added more as my doc suggested, but I didn't like how I felt, so I started tapering back to where I had been. Sometime in that process I guess I started toying with tapering OFF altogether. So I kept lowering my dose, every few days. This past Sunday I told hubs I was going to try tapering off and seeing how I felt (he's all for it). Sunday was my first day completely off of progesterone/estriol. (I figured if hubs didn't know I was at my worst, lol, maybe he wouldnt notice it
, like PMS once they know you're PMSing, they notice it more. ) I'll tell him in a week or two that I did stop.So, anyway. Saturday was the last small does. Sunday I started being without any.
What have I noticed: For the last two weeks while tapering I've been a bit weepy. Not bad, just "hallmark commercial weepy".
My period arrived, very very early, and very black this morning, suggesting most of the progesterone is now out of my system. No PMS. Some cramping.
Otherwise... I've dropped a pound or so (with a period, no less). My ring is looser.
I'll see if my dang boobs finally get smaller again lol.
But, I'll be curious to see how I feel in the coming months. I plan to stick with my slow carb (not low carb) eating: nutrient dense vegetables, lean proteins, low fat fairy, nuts, seeds, fruit, and a few grains. I plan to keep taking evening primrose, magnesium, calcium and D, and my menopause daily vitamin. I plan to keep running, lifting, and going to pilates. I plan to keep enjoying wine in the evenings as long as it doesn't make my symptoms worse (which it never has, luckily for everyone lol).
I plan to UP my intake of phytos, and plan to DECREASE my consumption of meat and see how it all feels.
Yes, this thread is a total 180 from the one I started a while back where I was going to UP my dose to what the doc wanted. But hey, trying that got me to here. More was NOT better, so I'm figuring lets try less, maybe it means something that more felt wrong.
Anyway, thanks for bearing with me. My first peri-menopause symptoms began in 2007 (dizziness), and got challenging in about 2010 (hot flashes and general "hotness"), so perhaps (hopefully) I'm nearing the end of my journey. Who knows. But it seems to me that removing the externally produced hormones is the one way to know where I'm at in this process.
cheers!:drinker:
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Replies
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Let us know how it goes!!!
I'm still waiting for the saliva test results to see where I stand hormonally. Man, I really hate waiting!!!! They said it would take 2-3 weeks to get the results back :sad:
Anita0 -
Definitely let us know what those results are. I had blood testing in 2011 and 2013. Should probably do it again, but will wait to see how things feel.Let us know how it goes!!!
I'm still waiting for the saliva test results to see where I stand hormonally. Man, I really hate waiting!!!! They said it would take 2-3 weeks to get the results back :sad:
Anita0 -
Good luck with seeing how you feel!
I have gone back and forth the last 7 years with Mirena, nothing, bio-identicals, then birth control pill and now back to nothing. It is all a learning experience. I had reasons for each decision and each decision helped me move on to the next one. I don't know what will be coming next, but I do believe in taking the time to see how your body feels at each stage. I went off the pill in February, I think? I have only had some spotting, but not a real period. Still having some phantom periods with weepyness, hot flashes at night and insomnia. Then after a week or so, it goes away.
Hang in there!0 -
When I got tested, they tested my follicle stimulating hormone (FSH). She said it tells if you are still ovulating or not. Anything over 27 is post menopause which to my surprise I was 35! I've had Merina IUD for almost 10 years now so I didn't know if I was still having a period or not. I just started having symptoms after I lost weight and once my doc learned I was Post - menopausal, she put me on estrogen because the IUD took care of the other. It's been almost 3 weeks and I think I am feeling better. I've not been eating right or exercising enough so the weight is creeping up. Once the stress lets up at work I want to get back on plan!
Sabine, if you got your period again, doesn't that mean all your symptoms will come back since you aren't done? I'm so confused about all this stuff - like getting your period for the first time!0 -
I assume I'm "not done", but do want to see where I'm at, yes. And I hope it will peter out soon.When I got tested, they tested my follicle stimulating hormone (FSH). She said it tells if you are still ovulating or not. Anything over 27 is post menopause which to my surprise I was 35! I've had Merina IUD for almost 10 years now so I didn't know if I was still having a period or not. I just started having symptoms after I lost weight and once my doc learned I was Post - menopausal, she put me on estrogen because the IUD took care of the other. It's been almost 3 weeks and I think I am feeling better. I've not been eating right or exercising enough so the weight is creeping up. Once the stress lets up at work I want to get back on plan!
Sabine, if you got your period again, doesn't that mean all your symptoms will come back since you aren't done? I'm so confused about all this stuff - like getting your period for the first time!
I'm confused about it all too. I was at something like 24? something, last time I was tested.
My diet and "supplements" are a bit different than they were in 2010 (more focus, anyway), so perhaps things won't return with a vengeance, or, perhaps they'll return differently. Things seem to come and go lol.0 -
Well, it's been a week "without" now. So far I feel pretty good. I had a short (two day) bleed. And my hands are a little bloated, but otherwise, so far so good. I predict I'll really see where things are in about 3 week. If the night sweats and raging insomnia come back, then I'll know.
I'll try to wait a month or so, and then get tested again.0 -
Brave woman! Does your body respond to exercise differently now than before you started tapering off? Is it more difficult to get to the mat and get started?0
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I don't think I've noticed that yet. Hard to say though, because I joined a new gym (always motivating for a while) and my pilates class restarted.Brave woman! Does your body respond to exercise differently now than before you started tapering off? Is it more difficult to get to the mat and get started?
I'll keep an eye on that though. interesting thought. Do you find that to be the case?0 -
Hats off for aiming to get off the hormones! IMO, if one even goes with these, I think they're really only meant to be used for a short time, to get one over the hump, if one's symptoms are really that bad, and then let go later. At this time of life, we're really not supposed to have the hormonal levels of a young woman. Far better to aim for good health with paying more attention to nutrition, some decent supplements and/or herbs, the right kind of exercise, and last but certainly not least, stress reduction. I found that traditional Chinese medicine(TCM) has a whole different take on menopause as a natural transition, not a disease that needs to be fixed like Western doctors seem to believe. The TCM aims to balance a woman out at all stages of life, not just menopause, since it treats the woman as a whole. It has a good track record too. As I was just saying to a dear friend of mine today, menopause often throws many women into a state of physiological stress, on top of societal stress, a double-whammy IMO. So anything one can do to center and calm oneself along with good health habits can't help but be helpful. I know every woman is different though in response to foods, exercise, supplements, lifestyle and all. Best of luck!:)0
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Thanks. fwiw, the goal of the bioidenticals was never to keep me at the hormonal levels of my younger days. My doctor doesn't prescribe that much. It's more prescribed to keep you at a more stable (but lower) level. And I think it did that reasonably well. (I also know for myself that the bioidenticals affect me very differently than synthetics like protestin. I could never really tolerate BCP, mirena etc.Hats off for aiming to get off the hormones! IMO, if one even goes with these, I think they're really only meant to be used for a short time, to get one over the hump, if one's symptoms are really that bad, and then let go later. At this time of life, we're really not supposed to have the hormonal levels of a young woman. Far better to aim for good health with paying more attention to nutrition, some decent supplements and/or herbs, the right kind of exercise, and last but certainly not least, stress reduction. I found that traditional Chinese medicine(TCM) has a whole different take on menopause as a natural transition, not a disease that needs to be fixed like Western doctors seem to believe. The TCM aims to balance a woman out at all stages of life, not just menopause, since it treats the woman as a whole. It has a good track record too. As I was just saying to a dear friend of mine today, menopause often throws many women into a state of physiological stress, on top of societal stress, a double-whammy IMO. So anything one can do to center and calm oneself along with good health habits can't help but be helpful. I know every woman is different though in response to foods, exercise, supplements, lifestyle and all. Best of luck!:)
Chinese medicine is very helpful, isn't it? I make use of Chinese medicine in my journey every day. It helps that my mother in law is very very very well versed in the philosophy behind it and the herbs that can be helpful. In some cases, its goal is quite the same as the bioidenticals using the protocol my doctor was using. Something like the Wiley Protocol, would perhaps be a different story.
I plan to see my naturopath again in a few weeks to see where things are at.0 -
Awesome about your mother-in-law being quite familiar with Chinese medicine, as well as yourself. It sounds like you're doing the right thing overall. We all respond differently to different things anyway, even without menopause and beyond in the mix. Men don't understand the hormonal connection and well-being for us though. They still think it's totally calories in, calories out and since they can drop 10 pounds just like that by cutting out dessert, why can't we? Please keep us posted about when you catch up with your naturopath too:)0
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She's awesome. She's 80ish and in better shape than either of us.Awesome about your mother-in-law being quite familiar with Chinese medicine, as well as yourself. It sounds like you're doing the right thing overall. We all respond differently to different things anyway, even without menopause and beyond in the mix. Men don't understand the hormonal connection and well-being for us though. They still think it's totally calories in, calories out and since they can drop 10 pounds just like that by cutting out dessert, why can't we? Please keep us posted about when you catch up with your naturopath too:)
I will keep you all posted. I'm feeling pretty good so far! I'm counting calories again, for the short term (I don't really count calories) to keep an eye on things as I transition back to "plain ole me".
But yeah. It's been 11 days now since my last TINY dose (about a 1/3 of 1/8th of a teaspoon by the end),and I'm feeling pretty good!0 -
Hey Sabine! Good for you for giving it a try and seeing where your body is at! I've been off the boards for a little bit, but still holding strong to my shift in diet. Doing exactly what you are doing...the slow carbs, lots of veggies, healthy proteins and fats. Just changing my diet has helped me dramatically. The weight is coming off!! YAY!! I've increased my exercise too, which is helped my mood and my hot flashes. I'm sure things will change on my again, but for now I'm feeling alright!
Keep us posted on your journey!! Interested to hear how it goes.
Lisa0 -
This is excellent!!Hey Sabine! Good for you for giving it a try and seeing where your body is at! I've been off the boards for a little bit, but still holding strong to my shift in diet. Doing exactly what you are doing...the slow carbs, lots of veggies, healthy proteins and fats. Just changing my diet has helped me dramatically. The weight is coming off!! YAY!! I've increased my exercise too, which is helped my mood and my hot flashes. I'm sure things will change on my again, but for now I'm feeling alright!
Keep us posted on your journey!! Interested to hear how it goes.
Lisa
I'm still doing well. It's day 12 now. The scale has ticked down a tiny bit. My ring fits. I've felt well, and have worked out almost every day (and gotten my 10k steps every day). So far so good. And...knock on wood...no hot flashes or night sweats yet...
I'm eating vegetables like they are going out of style, and focusing on eating as nutrient dense and non-inflamatory as possible. Here's hoping!0 -
Okay. Here's an "I knew it, but I didn't KNOW it": stopping the bios leads to lower tolerance for alcohol.
I *knew* this, in that throughout my adulthood my "buzz threshold" was higher from ovulation to period. From period to ovulation I was a lightweight and then it increased from ovulation to period. I had also noticed the last year while on a constant dose (rather than "cycling with my "cycle") that I didn't have that. It was always the same, and always a bit higher in tolerance.
I stopped the bios almost two weeks ago and, yep!, I'm a light weight. Hubs and I had a nice big dinner salad and some wine and I felt it with the first glass.
So again, I knew it, but I didn't KNOW it. I'll be curious to see what the next three weeks and going forward bring, with ALL of this. I'll be curious to see which of my "regular what I know" symptoms/feelings return, and what's new.
ps: I'd told myself I wasn't going to tell my wonderful hubs that I was stopping/stopped for a while... but I told him tonight. He's on board, of course, being the great supportive guy that he is. He did ask (after we'd watched an episode of orange is the new black), if I was going to shank him in his sleep. I said no, but all bets are off as to whether I'll wake him up sobbing lol. So far, no unpleasant feelings at all. knock on wood.
:laugh: :happy:0 -
Day 17 after stopping. Still feeling pretty good. I've lost 2LBS. My boob pain/fullness has returned.0
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"ps: I'd told myself I wasn't going to tell my wonderful hubs that I was stopping/stopped for a while... but I told him tonight. He's on board, of course, being the great supportive guy that he is. He did ask (after we'd watched an episode of orange is the new black), if I was going to shank him in his sleep. I said no, but all bets are off as to whether I'll wake him up sobbing lol. So far, no unpleasant feelings at all. knock on wood."
I can SO relate to this. I have not been able to get the emotional rollercoaster under control. Though some things my husband has done I would have a hard time dealing with not going through menopause but with that added to it I am just a mess emotionally. He doesn't understand and doesn't do anything to support me in this so I'm kind of on my own.
So at this point I'm trying to keep my own sanity and have decided that I cannot go to him for support and help. Going to start back on the progesterone cream Friday (7 days after my period started) and see where that puts me at next month. The only other thing I'm doing is trying to be consistent with exercise and taking my supplements such as fish oil.0 -
Day 21. Still feeling pretty good. No hot flashes, yet. No night sweats, yet. (I'm figuring either those will return with my first real period, or will be lessened because of some of the supplements I've been taking). No migraine this month so far. Boob pain is still with me, but after taking a light diuretic, it's much better. Better to the point where I can run at least!
Cheers!0 -
New here and started bio-identicals a few months ago, and feel so much better. I'll be curious to see how this goes for you. I was thinking I'd be on them about a year.0
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Hi.New here and started bio-identicals a few months ago, and feel so much better. I'll be curious to see how this goes for you. I was thinking I'd be on them about a year.
I was trying to recall when I started the progesterone. I'd have to say 2010? Maybe 2009. Estriol I started a year ago.
It's been 23 days since my last dose. I've now lost 3LBS and the boob pain is mostly gone now. I feel pretty good!
Again, the first period will be the real tell.0 -
Day 28. And so far so good. I even think my family would agree it's going well. :laugh:
No migraines. Limited bloating. No hot flashes. Limited night sweats (the last two nights). My primary complaint has been a week of sore boobs.
I sorta feel like a period may be approaching, but these days who knows (could explain the night sweats).
And, yes, the scale has ticked down a bit again. The thing I notice most about the scale is that my old pre-peri "trends" are returning there too (just as with a few other things). I can reliably predict my morning weight will be 2LBS less than my evening weight.
So, if things don't get dramatically worse, I'll keep this up for a while and see where it goes. But it's been about a month now since I've had NONE, and about 1.5 months since I had a therapeutic dose.
Anyway, cheers!0 -
Yep. I got my period again (that's twice this month). I started this one 4.5LBS lighter than the last one while using the bio-identicals. And just a pound or two from my preferred "period weight". So I'd say, yes, the bios did cause at least a few pounds on the scale.0
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Now at about 6 weeks out. Still no intolerable symptoms this time around. Perhaps (knocks on woods) some of the worst of those symptoms are behind me? Who knows. But for now, I think I'll stay off the bio-identical progesterone and estriol and see how things feel. cheers0
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Thank you for the update....I've lost the few lbs I gained once I started the bio-identicals...and I still feel much better than I did before. Wait and see here.0
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Wait and see! It seems to be our motto these years. :happy:Thank you for the update....I've lost the few lbs I gained once I started the bio-identicals...and I still feel much better than I did before. Wait and see here.0 -
It's been two months now.
I had another period, of sorts (about 2.5 days long, pretty light). I had NO PMS or other symptoms and didn't know it was coming til it was here. That's unusual.
Other wise, my symptoms have been minimal. I find this fascinating, since I obviously had some pretty big ones when I was starting the bio-identicals!
The weight has stabilized, back where it was before the "mones" more or less.0 -
I am starting with some very intense hot flashes and night sweats and headaches and dizziness was thinking of looking into bioidenticals. My question for you is would you have taken them if you knew then what you know now about your experience with them.0
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Absolutely. At the time, they were just what I needed. And may be again in the future.I am starting with some very intense hot flashes and night sweats and headaches and dizziness was thinking of looking into bioidenticals. My question for you is would you have taken them if you knew then what you know now about your experience with them.
While I would NEVER take BCP etc. again, I would do the bioidenticals again in a heart beat. In fact, I still have mine, and took them along on my last trip, just in case.0 -
thank you
Absolutely. At the time, they were just what I needed. And may be again in the future.I am starting with some very intense hot flashes and night sweats and headaches and dizziness was thinking of looking into bioidenticals. My question for you is would you have taken them if you knew then what you know now about your experience with them.
While I would NEVER take BCP etc. again, I would do the bioidenticals again in a heart beat. In fact, I still have mine, and took them along on my last trip, just in case.0 -
I am fast approaching 3 months without the bio-identicals.
I'm spending the next while considering what to do. While I enjoyed the few pounds that fell off (water, likely), the last few weeks I've had just horrible exhaustion. My job has gone a little nuts (out of my control). Hubs thinks it's that, but I just don't know. I'm also cranky, but again, he chalks that up to work. Especially given my insomnia.
Periods have been somewhat more "regular" in terms of timing. PMS is still somewhat less than in my youth, but I'm so danged tired.
Migraines now seem to be just as they were. Sleep as well.
so I'm going to spend some time pondering whether to re-add the progesterone or both. My gut is saying just the progesterone, if anything...
cheers!0
This discussion has been closed.