Need help with weight routine for beginner

LiftAndBalance

Hey SideSteel and Sara!

First, thanks for all the help you provide here, I feel I've already learned a ton about fitness and nutrition just by reading. Based on that I've decided to join my uni gym in August (when the new semester starts) and need help with putting together a programme. There aren't any trainers in the gym. Since I'll only start in August, it's not urgent but I thought I'd post now to give it enough time since I have a bunch of question.

I was thinking to lift 3x a week. Can I do cardio (intervals on the elliptical, rowing machine or stepper) on the same day after the lifting (since my focus is the lifting, I just enjoy cardio intervals)? I'm following a workout calendar from Blogilates at the moment, which is a mixture of cardio, pilates and muscle endurance (low weight, high reps, sometimes very high reps). I really enjoy that as well and was wondering if I could still follow the calendar, i.e. do it every day, or if I should just do it on rest days and then stick to core-focused pilates and cardio so my other muscles get sufficient rest?

So, to the actual weight lifting routine. I've read a couple of things (NROLFW, SL, SS and AllPro) and AllPro's beginner routine for some reason just sounded the most fitting to me for now. I want to use dumbbells to try and balance out my body since I'm much stronger on my left side. I also know that the gym has a good variety of dumbbells and simply won't be able to lift even an empty bar for some exercises.
So I'm set with the bench presses, rows, overhead presses and calf raises. I was thinking to substitute the curls for standing upright rows since I read that AllPro actually recommends those and I have absolutely no issue with not doing curls.

Now to the tricky stuff, squats and stiff-legged deadlifts.

First the deadlifts: My right leg is almost 2 cm shorter, I currently don't have any insoles to balance that out and it's still gonna take a couple of months until I can get new ones. Can I still deadlift or will that hurt my hip? I've never done really heavy deadlifts but so far have never experienced any pain. I'm also planning to ask my doctor but could only get an appointment at the end of August (I moved so have to go to a new one).

And to the squats: I can only squat if my heels are slightly elevated. For bodyweight squats I do have clearance from a physiotherapist to do it that way but I'm not sure if weights change anything? In general, I'd actually like to substitute the squats since they can be painful sometimes, even with good form (form again cleared by the PT who says it's an issue of quad strenght). The same issues arise with lunging movements and split squats. Anything else I can substitute them with until my quads get stronger?

I hope I gave you enough info to answer my questions and thanks already for your help! Can't wait to start.

Rayman79

I know I'm not one of the exhalted SS or Sara, but I'll give you my take on your situation while I'm here .

Firstly, on the programming, kudos to you for soaking in some information and choosing from some good beginner programs. AllPros is a solid routine and should serve you well for quite a while. The question of adding in the Blogilates workouts is an interesting one though.

These routines are supposed to be stand alone programs and doing too much will affect your ability to progress at a reasonable rate. At this point the most important thing is to be clear about your goals. If you are focusing on fat loss, the extra activity should not be detrimental providing that you
a. eat enough quality food to fuel the activity, and
b. pay attention to your body and back off the volume if you start to feel too tired or sore for long periods of time.

As for the other issue, I do not have personal experience with different length limbs, but I do know that doing heavy compound movements with your joints and limbs at different angles is much more likely to muscular imbalances and injury. I would avoid the weighted squats and deadlifts for now.

I would always refer to someone with a more detailed understanding of anatomy and physiology, but I would think unilateral work would be better in your situation. Is the problems you have with lunges and split squats an issue of quad strength alone or is there something else that causes an issue?

The other thing I would suggest would be step-ups onto a box, step or bench. You can vary both the height of the step and the weight as you progress. Other than that, you might benefit from some machine work that targets the quad muscles directly. Leg presses (done one leg at a time) could be a good option, and leg extensions as a last resort.

As for the deadlift, there is no comparable substitute, but you can work the muscles through a couple of other exercises in the short term - it's never going to be the same, but it can help give you a foundation. Exercises like back extensions and glute bridges are great for lower back and glutes - two of the main active muscles when doing deads.

I hope that helps a bit - hopefully you'll get SS&S in here to give their 2c too.

LiftAndBalance

Thanks, Rayman79, I'm happy about advice from other people as well of course

At this point, yes, fat loss while preserving muscle is my primary goal I suppose. I also want to get fitter, stronger, faster and retain my flexibility - in short, I want it all. But since I guess I can't get everything at once, I would put leaner on top of my list for the moment.

Thanks for bringing up the issue of focusing on unilateral exercises, I would definitely prefer those for my lower body as well. I'm not sure if the issue with split squats is quad strength alone and I guess I'll only be able to tell for sure once my quad isn't the issue anymore. With lunges it's also the position of the back foot, which is fine for short periods but starts to hurt when held longer. So split squats would probably be worth a try once my muscles are strong enough to protect my knee.

I got exercises for my quads from my PT that I'm supposed to do 4 to 5 times a week. Basically just lifting my leg while sitting back propped on my elbows - first straight with flexed foot and then with the hip rotated inwards and outwards respectively. I'm supposed to do that for 3 sets with 10 - 15 repetitions. At the moment I do 1x15 and 2x10 each with 1 kg weights.

Thanks for suggesting step-ups as well, those might work. For the deadlifts, I've been wondering if it would help prevent injuries (the muscle imbalances are there anyway and while I'm trying my best to balance them out, there's a good chance they'll never disappear completely) if I found out how much the length difference between my legs is exactly and then stood on some book or similar object of the right thickness with my shorter leg until I get new insoles!? I do glute bridges regularly already and my lower back has gotten noticeably stronger over the past couple of months. I remember back extensions from when I went to the gym a couple of years back - I hated them....but maybe this time round I'll actually be able to do them and wouldn't hate them quite so much anymore. I like stiff-legged deadlifts though, somehow.

Another question I just thought of concerning diet: I currently use MFP's method with eating back exercise calories. I'm not really sure how to do that when I focus more on lifting, though, so was also wondering if it might make more sense to switch to TDEE then!?

Rayman79

Re lower body exercises, if you struggle with the positioning of your foot (and most people do if they have issues with ankle flexion) you can try this trick. Instead of using a bench as support for your back leg, try putting it over the safety bar in the power rack - as per the pic below. If you have the foam barbell pad you can wrap it around the bar and it can really help to get a comfortable position (and is usually height adjustable too)!



Re the deadlifts, you'd want to make sure you were standing on something solid and secure, but in theory I see no reason that wouldn't work.

As for the diet, I find TDEE works really for most people who are consistent with their exercise routine. It makes it easier to plan and stick to a certain way of eating rather than adjusting calories each day. It also makes life easier when analysing trends in weight loss/gain over time. Like anything, it is what works for your lifestyle best and what you are most likely to adhere to.

LiftAndBalance

I haven't been to the uni gym yet so I don't know if they have a power rack. The positioning of my back foot isn't a problem I think, as long as the surface is slightly padded. But I'll keep that in mind!

The MFP method worked well for me while I was doing only Fitnessblender workouts since they give an estimate of calories burned, I always logged the lowest estimate and that worked well. But now it's just too much guesswork and also becoming annoying. I changed my goal to 1700 now (TDEE should be around 2100) and will re-evaluate that after I have some data.

I actually just found out that I might be able to start going to the gym in July already so would be great if SS or Sara could give some advice until then as well. But thanks a lot already to Rayman, you've definitely been helpful already

LiftAndBalance

bump

Sarauk2sf

Rebumping for you. There is a bit to cover (which Rayman has done a great job of..thank you) so it will take a little while to go through - hopefully we can get to this tomorrow.

LiftAndBalance

Thanks, Sara! I know it's quite a bit so take all the time you need.

I've just wanted to write again as well. Since my knees don't hurt anymore now I tried the different quad movements listed under dumbbells here (http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/ThighWt.html#anchor172012), including different squat variations. I don't have heavy weights at home (max is 4 kg dumbbells) but based on the movements just holding on to some weight to get the feeling, I think it'll either have to be goblin squats (not sure if the length difference in my legs is harmful there as well!?) or some variation of step ups on a lower surface (I did it on a chair and that causes balance issues if I hold on to weights).

LiftAndBalance

Just to let you know I won't have internet for the next two weeks. Would be great if you got around to going through it at some point during that time. Thanks!

LiftAndBalance

back and bumping

SideSteel

Honestly I don't really have anything to add outside of what Rayman already posted. I'm also not comfortable advising for or against squats or dreads when you've got a significant difference in limb lengths.

LiftAndBalance

Thanks SS. I guess I'll just try and see how my ankle and knee feel. I'm still struggling with getting an appointment with a specialist but at least I've now received my info from my previous doctor so I know that the exact length difference in my legs is 1.2 cm.

LiftAndBalance

I went to the gym yesterday to figure out my 10 rep max for the exercises. Squats and deadlifts felt fine but I'll see how it goes as I progress. There's no step so I couldn't even try step ups. Much to my surprise I could even deadlift with a barbell strengthwise (only exercise where my 10 rep max is over 20 kg) and I might try that since I don't like holding the dumbbells during the deadlift (and I tried it with 6 kg less per hand than I'll have to hold).

The Overhead Presses and Standing Upright Rows are difficult though. I'm really struggling with correct form on my weaker side, almost irrespective of weight, I just can't keep my shoulder down. I knew that there's an issue with my right shoulder but I never paid it much thought since it doesn't bother me much in daily life. I understand that I'll have to try and maintain form as best as I can and build muscle. I just did some research and found out that I should be able to replace the upright rows with dumbbells raises (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/DBRaises.html), which I'm gonna try.

I guess my question to you is, does the recommendation to never use different weights for left and right relate to anything else than balancing out strength? There's a good chance I won't be able to really balance my shoulders out anyway and the 10 rep max on my right side is no challenge at all for my left side. I tried both separately out of curiosity and I got:
Overhead Press: barely 2 kg on the right side (that's the weight I used and I actually only managed 8 reps) vs 5 kg left
Standing Upright Rows: 4 kg on the right side vs 7 kg on the left

In both cases, I couldn't even do one rep on the right side with the heavier weight but the lighter one is, well, much too light for the left side. Any advice?

I did feel like I'm gonna really enjoy it though

LiftAndBalance

Ok, digging this out again.

I'm in week three now and feel like I'm already making some progress, including on the shoulder issue. I'm doing OHPs and Standing Upright Rows with different weights for left and right at the moment but would obviously like to gradually close the gap there.
Do you have suggestions on the smartest way to reduce the difference? Currently I'm doing 2 and 5 kg for OHPs, and 5 and 7 kg for Standing Upright Rows. I've been considering increasing the weights on the weaker side after every cycle and the ones on the stronger side only after every second cycle, irrespective of whether I'm able to complete all reps in week five. I've also been considering increasing the weights on the weaker side regardless of repetitions and then try to work my way up to 8 reps. And maybe there's yet another option I haven't even thought of.

Would be very grateful for input

n3ver3nder

Keep the weights the same in each hand. For any one handed exercises (where you do one side before the other, not both at once) do the weaker side first and then match weight/reps with the stronger side. The weak side should set the pace, and that should have you evening up quicker. Balance is the most important thing at this juncture.

LiftAndBalance

Hm, thanks for the answer, even though obviously not what I had hoped to hear :blushing:

Honestly? I know that's the general recommendation and I can see the balance argument but it's pretty d*mn frustrating to do it that way. I guess for Upright Rows I could bring myself to do it since the difference isn't that big. But OHPs with 2 kg are at the most cardio for my stronger side but not strength training, and that's highly demotivating to me (tried it, I progress so slowly on the weaker side that I get frustrated and give up). I have huge imbalances in my whole body and some of them are due to given physical issues, albeit aggravated by strength imbalances. It's been a vicious circle in a way and I'm trying to finally break out but in a sustainable way since I've tried and quickly given up many times already.

n3ver3nder

Hm, thanks for the answer, even though obviously not what I had hoped to hear :blushing:

Ain't that always the case? But seriously it seems to me that all you'll achieve doing the uneven weights is widen the gap of the unevenness. Your imbalances could even spread to different body parts as you'll be working certain stabilisers more than others etc. That can have knock on effects to things like your posture, and cause further injury down the line.

What kind of physiotherapist have you seen? If you can, go and see a decent sports physio who does hands on therapy (ART, myofacial release and the like). Sounds like you may have some issues with certain muscles not firing correctly (for a good while only one of my glutes was firing and it was affecting my squat technique and progression, for example, or with my left shoulder there's some rotator cuff inhibition that makes my left arm a lot weaker than my right), unless you have any congenital issues? Getting rid of trigger points (facial build up aka knots in the muscle) and getting inhibited muscles working can habe a big impact.

LiftAndBalance

Your imbalances could even spread to different body parts as you'll be working certain stabilisers more than others etc. That can have knock on effects to things like your posture, and cause further injury down the line.

Admittedly, I haven't even thought of that. I have noticed, though, that I can feel my obliques working when doing OHPs on the stronger side but not on the weaker one. Alright, I'm convinced. Would it be ok to substitute the OHPs with push presses then (maybe partly, like once a week)?

What kind of physiotherapist have you seen? If you can, go and see a decent sports physio who does hands on therapy (ART, myofacial release and the like). Sounds like you may have some issues with certain muscles not firing correctly (for a good while only one of my glutes was firing and it was affecting my squat technique and progression, for example, or with my left shoulder there's some rotator cuff inhibition that makes my left arm a lot weaker than my right), unless you have any congenital issues? Getting rid of trigger points (facial build up aka knots in the muscle) and getting inhibited muscles working can habe a big impact.

I've been trying to find a decent sports physio where I live now but I can't afford to go to the private system and that's where those seem to be practising. I do have congenital issues, mainly affecting my feet/legs, but also my spine to a lesser degree. I don't actually know if they impact the shoulder as well. I'm fairly certain that the main problem is muscular, though, and quite probably similar to what you've described. I'm actually feeling quite clueless as to the best ways of addressing that on my own other than keeping at lifting and trying hard to achieve proper form without cheating. I've also been considering getting a foam roller but my budget's pretty tight right now so maybe I'll try tennis balls...

n3ver3nder

Tennis balls will do for now. MobilityWOD is your friend. I know it's difficult on a tight budget, but try and save up for some physio. Sell some stuff on eBay, do a bulk food shop at the start of the month to save some cash on your grocery shop, do a bit of overtime etc - I'm sure there are other options if you put your mind to it so you could save up £5-10 (or the local currency of your choice) a week to the point you can afford a session. A decent physio shouldn't need to see you week in week out, it should be a case of seeing you once, getting the therapy/adjustments done and then giving you some work. You want some one used to dealing with football (hand egg)/rugby players, powerlifters, weightlifters or crossfitters. The one I see is head physio for my towns rugby team and costs £50 a session, his assistant physios cost £35 a session.

LiftAndBalance

Thanks. I didn't know MobilityWOD before but looks interesting; I'll definitely check it out (also reminded me that I've been wanting to read 'Becoming a Supple Leopard' for ages but still haven't been able to find it second-hand).
In your opinion, would a foam roller be helpful, though? I saw a smallish one for around 15 € which wouldn't be so bad financially...

And then I'll have to see if I can find a physio who has experience with my congenital issues (the last one I saw seemed quite competent in general but simply had no experience at all with that so it was pretty useless) and with weightlifters etc. since otherwise it's just a waste of money. I guess I need someone who knows these things to go through my routine with me and check not just general form (already asked a friend to do that) but check form and muscle activation taking my specific case into account. *sighs*

n3ver3nder

Foam roller might be a low density floppy foam thing at that price. I suppose it can't hurt, but I'd make do with the tennis balls if I could until I could afford something firmer.

Where are you based? You might be able to ask around on a more localised lifting forum (e.g like Sugden Barbell for England - I'm sure there will be something similarly local for yourself) for physio recommendations.

I'll PM you re supple leopard.